Finishing Lmx Steers at 600kg

cacs

I was at at Teagasc meeting last night in Mayo. I have to say a good event. But the one message I took away was carcass dead weight no more the 380 kg for steers. So lets say live weight at slaughter 700 kg. Now that’s fine if we are breeding Angus cross even angus cross off suckler. As we all know in suckler changing tack in suckers is like turning a container ship. So my question is will you finish economically suckler bred steers at live weight 550-600 kg and put them on adlib up to 700kg. Not interested in bull beef. There was a guy called Paul Nolan or Dolan from dawn meats talking about this. yes we can all say meat factories are the Centre of all things evil. Lets say he is right and and the market does want this smaller carcass. Will we all have to move away from Lm Ch Sm and breed angus or can we finish our continental earlier and keep breeding the cattle our current system Just finish them earlier

patsy_mccabe

Smaller cows, regardless of breed, is the answer to that.

wrangler

cathal irwin wrote: »

I was at at Teagasc meeting last night in Mayo. I have to say a good event. But the one message I took away was carcass dead weight no more the 380 kg for steers. So lets say live weight at slaughter 700 kg. Now that’s fine if we are breeding Angus cross even angus cross off suckler. As we all know in suckler changing tack in suckers is like turning a container ship. So my question is will you finish economically suckler bred steers at live weight 550-600 kg and put them on adlib up to 700kg. Not interested in bull beef. There was a guy called Paul Nolan or Dolan from dawn meats talking about this. yes we can all say meat factories are the Centre of all things evil. Lets say he is right and and the market does want this smaller carcass. Will we all have to move away from Lm Ch Sm and breed angus or can we finish our continental earlier and keep breeding the cattle our current system Just finish them earlier

When I had sucklers, using sim cows and charolais bull I killed them all at 22mths, 380 to 420kg ......heifers 2mths younger 350 -380kg all R3s with a few Us.
It's just a matter of keeping them going

Willfarman

Some of the charolais and Saler bullocks I’ve bought cattle here run into a bit like the same problems with Holsteins. Feeding ration too young just didn’t pay as they were just growing and didn’t lay down fat cover until 28 months + and wind up 450+ kg carcass. It’s nice to see a few big uns on paper all same though!!

Willfarman

Some of the charolais and Saler bullocks I’ve bought cattle here run into a bit like the same problems with Holsteins. Feeding ration too young just didn’t pay as they were just growing and didn’t lay down fat cover until 28 months + and wind up 450+ kg carcass. It’s nice to see a few big uns on paper all same though!!

squinn2912

Trying out finishing bulls here aiming for 400kgs round 14.5 months some will weigh heavy to keep the batch together

Muckit

squinn2912 wrote: »

Trying out finishing bulls here aiming for 400kgs round 14.5 months some will weigh heavy to keep the batch together

I know all beef is madness at the moment but what is lads fascination with bull beef? I just don't get it personally.

They are high input (tonnes of meal), require a higher level of time and stockmanship and the they are always down the bottom of the list of desirable cattle the factories want when there's a glut.

Muckit

wrangler wrote: »

When I had sucklers, using sim cows and charolais bull I killed them all at 22mths, 380 to 420kg ......heifers 2mths younger 350 -380kg all R3s with a few Us.
It's just a matter of keeping them going

Nice to look back sometimes and reminise but very different times. You are right, on good land and with lashing out the bag manure and plenty of concentrates tis easy achieve but no money in it for that now.

If factories want their ideal small carcase like what they are saying, they're going to have to pay for it to cover the extra costs carried by the farmer. But won't happen anytime soon while lads are happy to do it without being compensated.

memorystick

Muckit wrote: »

I know all beef is madness at the moment but what is lads fascination with bull beef? I just don't get it personally.

They are high input (tonnes of meal), require a higher level of time and stockmanship and the they are always down the bottom of the list of desirable cattle the factories want when there's a glut.

I've handy heifers and they'll end up eating almost 700kgs of meal. AAx but out of dairy cows. L

Bass Reeves

Muckit wrote: »

I know all beef is madness at the moment but what is lads fascination with bull beef? I just don't get it personally.

They are high input (tonnes of meal), require a higher level of time and stockmanship and the they are always down the bottom of the list of desirable cattle the factories want when there's a glut.

If you get normal prices these cattle way out preform steers nd you get the extra weigh as well. Bought three SI what were supposed to be bulls one February at about 330kgs. The heaviest was I say squeezed only a week or two previous. The 2 bulls killed 6-8 weeks sooner at 420 DW at a grade of R+ while the bullock when he was slaughtered was 360 DW at barley R-. Price of cattle had dropped by the time he died it was about 8-10 years ago

Cavanjack

Bass Reeves wrote: »

If you get normal prices these cattle way out preform steers nd you get the extra weigh as well. Bought three SI what were supposed to be bulls one February at about 330kgs. The heaviest was I say squeezed only a week or two previous. The 2 bulls killed 6-8 weeks sooner at 420 DW at a grade of R+ while the bullock when he was slaughtered was 360 DW at barley R-. Price of cattle had dropped by the time he died it was about 8-10 years ago

I agree. If finishing cattle indoors there is no comparison. They say they are mad looking for finished bullocks at the minute but they won't pay for them

wrangler

Cavanjack wrote: »

I agree. If finishing cattle indoors there is no comparison. They say they are mad looking for finished bullocks at the minute but they won't pay for them

They might be teaching BPM a lesson, showing them exactly how little power they have.
They have the sheep trade fecked as well/
karma they call it

Who2

I was in a Mart today and couldn’t make any sense of prices, seems to be a bit of a lift across the board and anything over 500 kgs was dear enough and I even seen a share of €3 plus for 300 kg heifers.

Cavanjack

Who2 wrote: »

I was in a Mart today and couldn’t make any sense of prices, seems to be a bit of a lift across the board and anything over 500 kgs was dear enough and I even seen a share of €3 plus for 300 kg heifers.

No sense to the trade at the minute.

lab man

Had cattle in Ennis today blks and hefrs
1 chx 460 x1110
1xBb 450x 1060
1black holsteiney type bucket calf bought for 150
400 kg x 790
1x chx 460 x 1200
Hfrs
3 red lmx 470x950
1 chx 510x1040
2 bb 465x1000
1 black lmx 500x900
Was going great till they changed auctioneer prices dropped 100 to 150 per head while he was there, guy from mayo, was selling in gort tonight too

Muckit

Who2 wrote: »

I was in a Mart today and couldn’t make any sense of prices, seems to be a bit of a lift across the board and anything over 500 kgs was dear enough and I even seen a share of €3 plus for 300 kg heifers.

Grassmen. And I'm not talking about the DVD!

memorystick

Muckit wrote: »

Grassmen. And I'm not talking about the DVD!

Winter is certainly over!

Muckit

memorystick wrote: »

Winter is certainly over!

There's a breeze alright now drying the concrete in the yard. But the calendar still only mid Feb.

Heard a clicking noise walking the road. Strange l thought. Neighbour had fencer on. Then seen he'd let cattle out. Fortune favours the brave?!

Limestone Cowboy

lab man wrote: »

Had cattle in Ennis today blks and hefrs
1 chx 460 x1110
1xBb 450x 1060
1black holsteiney type bucket calf bought for 150
400 kg x 790
1x chx 460 x 1200
Hfrs
3 red lmx 470x950
1 chx 510x1040
2 bb 465x1000
1 black lmx 500x900
Was going great till they changed auctioneer prices dropped 100 to 150 per head while he was there, guy from mayo, was selling in gort tonight too

Nelan's the only man to sell cattle in ennis.

lab man

Limestone Cowboy wrote:

Nelan's the only man to sell cattle in ennis.

He sold my blks they the guy from mayo came in drioped like a stone till neylon came back, matthew was selling the heifers till pen before mine came in the were going great the mayo fella came in the dropped 100 straight away again I was bulling

Bass Reeves

lab man wrote: »

Limestone Cowboy wrote:

Nelan's the only man to sell cattle in ennis.

He sold my blks they the guy from mayo came in drioped like a stone till neylon came back, matthew was selling the heifers till pen before mine came in the were going great the mayo fella came in the dropped 100 straight away again I was bulling

Good cop bad cop

Cavanjack

lab man wrote: »

He sold my blks they the guy from mayo came in drioped like a stone till neylon came back, matthew was selling the heifers till pen before mine came in the were going great the mayo fella came in the dropped 100 straight away again I was bulling

How can this happen? The only way is if the auctioneer that is selling the dear cattle is making a fool of the buyers?

Sheep breeder

lab man wrote: »

Had cattle in Ennis today blks and hefrs
1 chx 460 x1110
1xBb 450x 1060
1black holsteiney type bucket calf bought for 150
400 kg x 790
1x chx 460 x 1200
Hfrs
3 red lmx 470x950
1 chx 510x1040
2 bb 465x1000
1 black lmx 500x900
Was going great till they changed auctioneer prices dropped 100 to 150 per head while he was there, guy from mayo, was selling in gort tonight too

The bullocks averages about 2.20 a kilo and heifers 2.00 a kilo that’s not mad money. It’s gas how a lot of fellas go to the mart and don’t watch true trade and will quote the one or two big prices and not the average of the sale for different types.
The trade two weeks ago for good weanlings was back 60 cent a kilo from last year.

Sheep breeder

Cavanjack wrote: »

How can this happen? The only way is if the auctioneer that is selling the dear cattle is making a fool of the buyers?

Would that auctioneer have his own buddies around the ring and have yet to see any auctioneer making fools of buyers around a ring, every buyer knows the value of stock. The one exception is in the suckler ring where fellas totally loose the run of themselves over cows and have crazy ideas about cows.

Bass Reeves

Sheep breeder wrote: »

lab man wrote: »

Had cattle in Ennis today blks and hefrs
1 chx 460 x1110
1xBb 450x 1060
1black holsteiney type bucket calf bought for 150
400 kg x 790
1x chx 460 x 1200
Hfrs
3 red lmx 470x950
1 chx 510x1040
2 bb 465x1000
1 black lmx 500x900
Was going great till they changed auctioneer prices dropped 100 to 150 per head while he was there, guy from mayo, was selling in gort tonight too

The bullocks averages about 2.20 a kilo and heifers 2.00 a kilo that’s not mad money. It’s gas how a lot of fellas go to the mart and don’t watch true trade and will quote the one or two big prices and not the average of the sale for different types.
The trade two weeks ago for good weanlings was back 60 cent a kilo from last year.

The factory trade is back about 30c/kg dw compared to last year and the cost of ration have increased cattle being back 60c/kg would be the equvilent of that. It is not even factoring in DW weight limits or losses on bulls and cows that lads are taking. The weights the Bullock's were means it will be late August/ early September before they are ready for slaughter. The lad that bought them will have about 300/ head to cover his costs if prices are similar to last year by the time we get to then.

The heifers may leave a slightly higher margin but they were that tad heavier than the Bullock's which mean you might get enough finish on them in June/early July. But weight gain is lower than Bullock's and they can carry less. However lads have the option of finishing the cattle themselves.
Most marts work on lulls and peaks. It is not just the change​ of auctioneer's. If you watch marts before the auctioneer changes then prices have started to drop as some dealers and farmer buyers start to head to get something to eat. It is not just the auctioneer that is hungry. Marts target this and use auctioneer's often as a good cop/ bad cop duo. Farmer buyers are notorious for not wanting heifers. When buying I always watch for such lulls they also happen at the very end of a Mart as dealers trucks start to fill and farmers start to pack up to head home.

Limestone Cowboy

lab man wrote: »

He sold my blks they the guy from mayo came in drioped like a stone till neylon came back, matthew was selling the heifers till pen before mine came in the were going great the mayo fella came in the dropped 100 straight away again I was bulling

I know it's off topic for this thread but always reckoned he was as good a livestock auctioneer as there is around. Will always do his best to make the sale where another auctioneer would just let them off.

Albert Johnson

Sheep breeder wrote: »

The bullocks averages about 2.20 a kilo and heifers 2.00 a kilo that’s not mad money. It’s gas how a lot of fellas go to the mart and don’t watch true trade and will quote the one or two big prices and not the average of the sale for different types.
The trade two weeks ago for good weanlings was back 60 cent a kilo from last year.

I agree re lads only quoting the stand out prices and failing to represent the trade and that a grouped average across the board can give a better representation of a given sale. However averages can skew the outcome if not taken from comparable sources, for example the average price of the above bullocks was 2.20 a kilo across the board but they aren't all comparable stock. It's impossible to compare prices for what must have been right sorts of continentals to a dairy bred beast, there like apples and oranges imo.

If we're looking at averages the bucket fed lad was 55kgs lighter and a completely different kettle of fish regards finishing and prospective buyer compared to the continentals. Comparing like with like leaves the colored bullocks at roughly 2.45 a kilo (very respectable in the current climate imo), the dairy cross bullock at near enough 2 euros a kilo and roughly the same for the heifers. It's hard to comment without seeing the stock in question but I believe you got on very well considering the beef outlook with the bullocks. If the heifers were of similar quality I would consider there outcome disappointing but on the whole a reasonably successful day out.

The best example I can think of regarding the need to compare similar stock to create an average was a sale I attended recently. The following involved the store heifer lots of which there was about 40 entered, enough to give a reasonable selection of types and weights imo. They ranged from an April 17 born black Friesian 270kg @ 400 to an January 18 born red and white Simmental buller 500kg @ 1450. The average price per kilo of the two cattle above was 2.19. This is average from lowest to highest price but would give little insight to lab man or others wishing to sell decent stores. Averages are like all data in that unless the information used to compile them is accurate or relevant then it's all meaningless figures.

Sheep breeder

Albert Johnson wrote: »

I agree re lads only quoting the stand out prices and failing to represent the trade and that a grouped average across the board can give a better representation of a given sale. However averages can skew the outcome if not taken from comparable sources, for example the average price of the above bullocks was 2.20 a kilo across the board but they aren't all comparable stock. It's impossible to compare prices for what must have been right sorts of continentals to a dairy bred beast, there like apples and oranges imo.

If we're looking at averages the bucket fed lad was 55kgs lighter and a completely different kettle of fish regards finishing and prospective buyer compared to the continentals. Comparing like with like leaves the colored bullocks at roughly 2.45 a kilo (very respectable in the current climate imo), the dairy cross bullock at near enough 2 euros a kilo and roughly the same for the heifers. It's hard to comment without seeing the stock in question but I believe you got on very well considering the beef outlook with the bullocks. If the heifers were of similar quality I would consider there outcome disappointing but on the whole a reasonably successful day out.

The best example I can think of regarding the need to compare similar stock to create an average was a sale I attended recently. The following involved the store heifer lots of which there was about 40 entered, enough to give a reasonable selection of types and weights imo. They ranged from an April 17 born black Friesian 270kg @ 400 to an January 18 born red and white Simmental buller 500kg @ 1450. The average price per kilo of the two cattle above was 2.19. This is average from lowest to highest price but would give little insight to lab man or others wishing to sell decent stores. Averages are like all data in that unless the information used to compile them is accurate or relevant then it's all meaningless figures.

As stated in the post I am talking about average per type of cattle and not across all breeds, example R grade cont heifers per kilo and black rats heifers per kilo. Two weeks ago there was 1100 cattle sold that day and it’s all about watching trade.

Sheep breeder

Bass Reeves wrote: »

The factory trade is back about 30c/kg dw compared to last year and the cost of ration have increased cattle being back 60c/kg would be the equvilent of that. It is not even factoring in DW weight limits or losses on bulls and cows that lads are taking. The weights the Bullock's were means it will be late August/ early September before they are ready for slaughter. The lad that bought them will have about 300/ head to cover his costs if prices are similar to last year by the time we get to then.

The heifers may leave a slightly higher margin but they were that tad heavier than the Bullock's which mean you might get enough finish on them in June/early July. But weight gain is lower than Bullock's and they can carry less. However lads have the option of finishing the cattle themselves.
Most marts work on lulls and peaks. It is not just the change​ of auctioneer's. If you watch marts before the auctioneer changes then prices have started to drop as some dealers and farmer buyers start to head to get something to eat. It is not just the auctioneer that is hungry. Marts target this and use auctioneer's often as a good cop/ bad cop duo. Farmer buyers are notorious for not wanting heifers. When buying I always watch for such lulls they also happen at the very end of a Mart as dealers trucks start to fill and farmers start to pack up to head home.

It’s not about good cop/bad cop or dealers filling trucks like in the old days, it’s about the person selling the cattle and how they operate and who they are connected to around the ring, there is mart closed recently which had a good rep for selling shapey weanlings and then let one man take over and it went downhill,a mart in the south east that lets the dealers run the rings and is now on its knees and the last manager to blame or the mart that put up the commission and has a booking system to suit Cheviot breeders over any body else on its knees as well.

lab man

Albert Johnson wrote:

I agree re lads only quoting the stand out prices and failing to represent the trade and that a grouped average across the board can give a better representation of a given sale. However averages can skew the outcome if not taken from comparable sources, for example the average price of the above bullocks was 2.20 a kilo across the board but they aren't all comparable stock. It's impossible to compare prices for what must have been right sorts of continentals to a dairy bred beast, there like apples and oranges imo.

I wrote what I got not what some story, 2 yrs ago we were advised by teagasc to buy dairy calves fro the aldi lidl market all the animals were out wintered and on a bag of beef nuts for 17 cattle , I was happy with what I got , I believe same type black style were sold for 450 euro 3 weeks ago in Ennis

Albert Johnson

lab man wrote: »

I wrote what I got not what some story, 2 yrs ago we were advised by teagasc to buy dairy calves fro the aldi lidl market all the animals were out wintered and on a bag of beef nuts for 17 cattle , I was happy with what I got , I believe same type black style were sold for 450 euro 3 weeks ago in Ennis

I don't doubt your honesty as to information offered, it's of benefit to everyone to hear of the news on the ground as it were. If anything I thought the continentals done very well and must have been fine stock, the dairy bred lad also sold well considering the current market. My comments weren't meant as a judgement of your individual circumstances but a reflection of the idea of average prices and the way they can skew results.