4 year old very emotional

coffeyt

Hi hoping for some advise as to where to go or what to do with an emotional 4 year old boy.
Our little man is generally a very happy and intelligent little boy, has attended speech & language as has issues with clarity but therapist felt his level of speech was appropriate for his age and he passed all the comprehension tests.
I have been told in preschool that he gets very upset at little things and can cry for 2/3 mins before getting over it and moving on. He can react like this at home sometimes but I normally just try and validate what and why he is feeling and come up with a plan together to make him feel better.
Now I do think he is just a very sensitive boy and that he needs time to learn to deal with his emotions.
However the teacher is suggesting she has concerns over him but won't really specify What apart from the emotions and the fact he runs a lot.
She wants the speech and language therapist to observe him in school and it feels like she is pushing to get some sort of diagnosis however neither I nor the therapist feel there is an issue other than all age appropriate reactions.
Basically wondering if anyone has any advice as to how to proceed as I am at a loss.

oLoonatic

If she has concerns about him, she needs specifics on what she is concerned about. Unfortunately services in this country are few and far between so my advice is if there are any concerns have them visited now as opposed to be waiting to see how it goes. as an example, to get an appointment for assessment of need you have to wait 20 months.

shesty

The teacher should be more specific.Sounds like she's not entirely sure if there actually is a problem.

I don't know, I find my four year old has these massive emotional outbursts over the tiniest of things.I am putting it down to age, the drama of it.She also runs a lot .... it hasn't been noted as a problem here...

Digs

A lot of it sounds very normal for 4. Like others have said insist the teacher gives specifics or move on from it.

My 5 almost 6 yr old is constantly skipping if not running. When we go for a walk she finds it impossible to actually walk - not a bother on her!

tretorn

I would be listening to the teacher especially if she is experienced.

She is spending a lot of time with your child. By running does she mean your child is a flight risk, ask her to be more specific.

She sounds really interested, some preschools teachers wouldnt bother raising concerns at all, they sit the year out and then pass any problems onto the teacher in school.

coffeyt

Thanks for all the advice, it's basically reinforced what I think myself that it is all normal behaviour for his age and tbh the teacher is young so I think she may just be wary of missing something and is over compensating.
I have a fair bit of interaction personally with some children with autism and adhd so know a lot of what to watch for and I really don't believe he fits either category nor does the s&l therapist.
It's just the fact that she keeps finding issues which to date have all been rectified or he has grown out of so it's a bit wearing when she is constantly reporting issues.
For example last year she suggested he be referred for s&l but they were happy him, then she said he wasn't socialising with other children, he now plays and interacts really well with all the other children , and now it's that he gets emotional about things. It's starting to feel like she is seeing issues where there are none.
I think I will go the route of asking her straight out exactly what she thinks the problem is the next time she raises any issues and go from there.

shesty

Well to be fair to her, she might be just trying to cover herself too, and be proactive.It's possible she is seeing things that she's not 100% sure are markers for something, and as someone else said, most preschool teachers would say nothing and let a problem get picked up in primary school.Some kids it is very hard to tell if there is something going on or not (i have my moments wondering about one of mine).Maybe do ask her can she be more specific because you can't just refer on the basis of a possible something, can you?Would someone even come in and observe, as she suggested?I would have thought services were so snowed under it would be hard to get that???

coffeyt

Sorry tretorn our posts obviously crossed, no she is not very experienced to be honest, only in the role 2 years and is in her late 20's.
and no he is not a flight risk at all just likes to run to get to the front in the line for example or when it's home time and sees me he forgets he is supposed to walk and runs to me! When we are out and about he sometimes has to be reminded to slow down and stay with me but will do so when he is reminded.

I would almost prefer if she did suggest what she actually thinks is the problem but all I get is we are concerned because ... which is really frustrating as I would prefer some honesty.

And then on the other side I have the speech and language therapist telling me she thinks he is just a very intelligent little boy who may be getting frustrated at times which is normal for his age.
Maybe I'm listening to the one I want to hear but to me this seems like a more likely scenario as I am a stay at home mum so am with him nearly all the time bar play school and I can't see any issues nor can anyone else who has contact with him.

I will probably call the speech and language therapist again and see what she thinks.

coffeyt

Shesty thanks for reply she suggested that it has been done before for other children so I suppose all I can do is ask.

're the markers I agree it can be difficult at time to distinguish these from normal behaviour and the speech & language therapist felt that any of those markers or red flags were all age appropriate and that he had already grown out of some of them since last year.
She felt he needed another year to see if the last red flag like getting anxious or upset would rectify itself but she be believed from her contact with him that he probably would grow out of it.

I advised the teacher of all of this but she is still pushing to get him observed even though I said I would prefer to do as the s&l therapist suggested last October and give him until the end of school year.

He is in no way disruptive in class and causes no problems, (apart from running and getting upset sometimes). He never fights with anyone in fact he gets on very well with everyone, if anything he can be very soft hearted. I do believe he is a highly sensitive child but I don't see that as a bad thing. He can be rough and tumble when he chooses but also very gentle and caring with younger children.

I just feel like I'm talking to myself with the teacher as she seems to have her opinion of him and thats it. (In his year and a half there she has never said anything positive about him) I'm conscious of not rocking the boat with her as he has 5 months left there and his little sister will be there next year too.

shesty

It's tough.I mean even as I typed my post earlier my four year old absolutely lost the plot because her younger sister moved a duplo block on the table that she was about to use.There's nothing wrong with mine, she is just very ...
.big...in her personality.Everything is highly dramatic, always has been!We have been lucky in our choice of playschool, they are very accepting of the children for who they are and they are excellent at teaching them how to manage emotions and interactions.But I did and do worry that she will come across teachers some day, who as you say, just develop an "opinion" of her, and never change it.She's that kind of child-you know she's there.

Maybe you're right, talk to your S&L therapist agin, and maybe your GP....just to see another opinion?

Sunrise_Sunset

The teacher of my nephew flagged it to the parents that she thought the child needed to be assessed. That was in junior infants. The child is in 1st class now and still waiting on the assessment. The teachers have said they don't know what it is, it's up to the professionals to give the diagnosis. They either won't say, or can't say.
If a pre-school teacher flagged it to me about my child, I'd be all over it. The younger the better, to raise concerns. It could turn out to be nothing, but it could turn out to be something. You don't want your child getting lost in the system and waiting years for an assessment.

drunkmonkey

Everyone keeps saying Teacher, this isn't a teacher though it's just one of the people working in the crèche/pre school.
With a bit of a speech delay he's going to get frustrated and a little emotional, I'd be inclined to listen to the therapist as there dealing with this every day and also there probably one on one with him while the person working in the pre school is trying to handle a few kids and if one needs extra help the worker gets frustrated.

splinter65

I can’t undestand why crying and running are cause for concern in a 4 year old. It’s great that a childminder in a nursery is so concerned about your child but I doubt if she has either the qualifications or the experience to offer these suggestions. If you are happy enough with your little chap then tell her that you’ve taken her concerns on board and that the matter is being looked into and avoid any more amateur paediatric diagnosis conversations like the plague.

coffeyt

Thanks again for all the replies, funnily enough I had my little girl in with phn today for developmental check so had a good chat with her.

She is of the opinion that the s&l therapist is the best placed to make any real observations as that is part of her job and she felt that the best option was to give him the extra few months as advised by her.

She did comment that a lot of preschool teachers can be over zealous but coming from a good place if you know what I mean so I have decided to give him a few months till after Easter and see how he is at that point, that gives him time and will also give me time before the end of preschool to get the s&l therapist in to observe if we feel its still needed.

coffeyt

Just thought I'd come back with an update on the situation with my little man. On advise of s&l therapist, he was referred for his anxiety to be on the safe side.
He is due to start school next week and got a call to attend the psychologist for assessment (anxiety comes under disability services so assessment is standard)
Although I have yet to have test report back, the psychologist could find no issue, in fact went so far as to say he is a highly intelligent boy who went further on the IQ test than any child his age. She felt some of his frustration and anxiety stems from this as he sometimes has adult worries even though he is only little.
She could find no valid reason for his referral and did say that she sometimes find that certain preschools can be almost hypochondriac in nature, finding issues with any difference in children.
So basically my advice for anyone in a similar situation, trust your instinct as you know your own child best but in saying that I'm glad we went down the assessment route as we can now put to bed any doubts that were put forward by his preschool.
Thanks again for all the advice at the time, it was much appreciated as it can be a difficult subject to discuss with family friends when you want an objective opinion.

shesty

I have not had my child tested but your description exactly matches what we are seeing with our now five year old.

We try to keep it simple, and remember she is only five and also teach her coping strategies for her feelings.It is hard when they are like that.

Thanks for your update.

Megwepz

Didn't see this thread when the OP was first posted but you could have been describing my son too!

He is now 9 yrs and in 4th class and had a very eager, newly qualified teacher in 1st class. His teacher liaised very regularly with me during this year and expressed his concerns time and time again about my son - fidgeting, what he saw as inability to concentrate, huge amounts of energy and chat but not overly engaging with other students at lunch time etc. - and suggested having him assessed. I took his feedback on board of course but told him that I felt he was just more of a kinetic learner and needed maybe more stimulation than some kids and that I would look into it.

I took him to a play therapist at the time to see if maybe she would be able to better help him communicate why he felt the need to be constantly fidgeting, running, moving in his seat. She told me she had no concerns at that time and when he sat his standardised tests that year, he scored in the top 2% for his age - turns out one of the biggest issues was that he was bored in class, he was flying through his work, finished before everyone else and then sitting bored waiting for most of the others. I spoke with the teacher and asked him to arrange for some additional work to be given to him when this happens. I supplied the school with some kinetic learning aids for him to use and the teacher set up a project table for him and 3 of the other quick students to work at when they were waiting to move onto the next subject. And lo and behold... no more complaints or concerns from the teacher (or any subsequent teacher) and he actually apologised at the end of the year for making such a fuss. In his defense, his concern and attention for my son were admirable and I still really appreciate it but I think his lack of experience made him jump the gun a bit.

Sometimes maybe there can be a rush to label things unnecessarily purely because a child doesn't fit the standard 'type' - kids will be kids, they will run, they will cry, they will fidget - and I agree with you that there are times that you need to just trust your instinct.

All the best to you and your clever little man for the future, glad that you have peace of mind now and hope he is loving school!

coffeyt

Thanks shesty and Megwepz, replies are much appreciated.

As suspected by the psychologist, his test scores came back very high, lowest score being the high average and highest score in the gifted range.

He scored in 99th percentile for reasoning and logic which means he will over think and over analyse everything , hence the anxiety.
He will also always want to be perfect and first in everything so hence the rushing to front of line.

These things will all require work with us and school but delighted that I can now say 'well actually no this is the reason he behaves a certain way' and tbh once the psychologist starting giving examples of type of behaviour we could expect it all made sense.

He is thankfully loving big school and only got upset on day one when leaving as he got no homework!!! Long may that last, although I doubt it will.

So once again thanks for all the responses, they were appreciated when I started to doubt myself and question was I being an oblivious mammy!

Is there a pattern to the things that tend to get him emotional? My oldest child got overly emotional when younger and this - like you - was put down to her being more intelligent that most kids her age - and having a certain level of intense perfectionism associated with that. So most of her emotional outbursts were linked to things not going perfectly for her when colouring or constructing or other things. And in fact she would not talk to a lot of people very much for ages - which was eventually put down by one professional to her being so perfectionist she did not want to talk until she knew she was doing it absolutely right. Now she never shuts up.

Anyway they recommended a few things to help her with this most of which did not help much at all alas I think in the end it was simply time and patience for her to grow out of it and the capabilities of her body to catch up naturally with that of her mind.

One thing I did do on my own initiative - that did seem to genuinely help a lot even though it was recommended by no professional or anyone at all - was I engaged in a lot of play with her where I intentionally made glaring mistakes and errors. Which I then made a laugh and a joke out of and was very good natured and positive about. Building things wrong. Colouring outside the lines. Accidentality selecting the wrong color and then just sticking with it anyway (her shock when I started doing pink grass in one picture and going "oh no wrong colour - ah sure lets just keep going and see what it looks like when its done" was very deep but it fell away into fun in the end).

Then I would make a point of printing the same picture again and getting it right the next time - or rebuilding the think I broke on purpose (though she never knew it was on purpose I always made it look like an error).

So ultimately my goal was always the same. 1) Make a glaring and disastrous error 2) Show that it is absolutely fine to get things wrong sometimes and in fact getting it wrong can be fun or lead to a new discovery of a new way to do things - and in fact you can have a lot of fun laughing at yourself too - but then 3) That it is important sometimes to try again anyway - that while it is ok to make mistakes it is also good to learn from them and try to be better.

It is hard to say how much this helped - and how much it was simply time that helped as she grew out of it. I like to think it is at least a 30:70 or 40:60 split as my approach did seem to really divert her development and the level of suffering perfectionism was bringing her.

Maybe _none_ of that is applicable to your situation and all that was a waste of time typing But perhaps you can draw something of use from it.

coffeyt

taxAHcruel this all sounds very similar to my little boy already.

The psychologist I felt explained it well when she said physically and emotionally he is 5 but intellectually he is a lot older so will find it hard some times to deal with the things he thinks about as he is emotional not able as yet but she felt he should grow into his thoughts if you like.

He is very good at reasoning thing out that upset him but he is definitely like your little girl as in a perfectionist.
For example he is not the best at drawing so just won't do it as he says he is not good enough at it.

We are trying a similar approach to what you suggested already by showing him its ok not to be perfect and its fun to try.

I will definitely implement your suggestions as I feel it will really help him, thanks a million for the advice.

drunkmonkey

Playing definitely helps a lot, we took our guy to a play therapist for a little while I'd say that's a little of our own fault we ended up there as he didn't get enough one on one time with either of us as he had a little brother 14mts younger and a sister on the way all a little after he turned 3.
Language is a problem, they can't express themselves like we would and I think it makes them anxious and sometimes angry/frustrated. Speech therapy has helped a lot for our fella as he did develop a speech problem along the way getting all his words out. I've given a lot of time with him in bed with sticker books that kind of thing so he has a huge vocabulary.
He struggled a little the other night trying to explain why he was scared of sleeping, he eventually said when he closes his eyes he sees television but me and mammy aren't there or his brother and sister. We had a good chat about dreams and what to do when he's scared. He described that one I think we've all had where you fall off a cliff, told him there's a bouncy castle at the bottom, he let a big yawn and off he went to sleep.

9 days of big school down and I haven't been hauled in yet so fingers crossed but I know some parents have. He didn't want to hold my hand going in the other day as he's a big boy now he told me.