Stuck in a dilema

The real mccoy 91

Hey folks looking for opinions/help please.

Been with my gf over 2 years now we have a little boy just turned 1 living in her parents house for the time being but we just took our first steps to getting our own place this month. I'm quite easy going and laid back not a worrier whereas she is always stressing about anything she can and worrying it's not a problem and can calm her down. She has mentioned countless times that she won't think we are serious until we are engaged and looks for reassurance I always tell her I love her that she is the mother of my child and I'm not going anywhere but I want us to be more independent and in a better financial state before getting her a ring but that I will and we are going to be married. She counters by saying she doesn't want anything expensive she just wants to be engaged. Personally I don't see what the big hurry is I've said it will happen and I mean it but I don't want to feel pressured into it either.

The other day she was looking for something in her mams drawer and found a ring came in and asked me did I get it that she thought it was an engagement ring and then got annoyed when I said no it was nothing to do with me and it started a small argument nothing serious was over quickly enough afterwards. She then went and told her sister about what happenedwho told her mam who has now given me the ring to give to her for valentines day that she had bought it as a present for her upcoming birthday anyway...

Now I'm annoyed that she told her sister and feel bad that the mam has given me the ring it's also annoyed me that I feel like she is trying to pressure me on it again I want to be the one to decide when the time is right and stuff like this annoys me. But now what do I do with the ring? I'm not sure I can give it to her without asking her to marry me but I don't want to do it like that and have her have made the decision. Should I just not give it to her and say nothing? I'm nearly feeling trapped in a corner here and annoyed at my gf for putting me in the situation in the first place. Any opinions?

judeboy101

Life's too short for all that hassle, as Beyoncé says "if you love it then you better put a ring on it".

Cash_Q

I'd give the ring back to her mother for a start, why would she give it to you to give to her daughter, when her daughter already knows you didn't but it?!

Tell her mother you'll be buying her a ring yourself at a time of your own choosing, and she should do whatever she originally intended with the ring.

Sit down with your girlfriend and explain again that you will be getting engaged when you're in a more financially secure position. It's not just about the ring, if she wants an inexpensive ring it still doesn't make you any more able to afford a wedding. Tell her that you don't want to be engaged for the sake of it, but rather you'd like to be engaged and in a position to plan the wedding and get married. Tell her she's free to tell her mam, sister and any other interfering busy bodies this if it helps to keep them off her back.

Usually this kind of stress comes from other people asking what direction the relationship is headed. You have a child together, you couldn't be any more committed! Don't be bullied into proposing when someone else thinks the time is right, and certainly don't be bullied into using that ring, it'll forever be known as an engagement ring provided by her mother, and you don't want that.

woodchuck

But now what do I do with the ring?

Give the ring back to her mother. It would be bizarre to give it to your girlfriend since she knows you didn't buy it and had a row over it. I'd just be frank with her mother that those are the reasons! But thank her anyway though, so that you don't ruffle her feathers.

I want to be the one to decide when the time is right

What about your girlfriend though; does she get any say about when the time is right? It seems like she thinks this is the right time. Obviously you disagree, but I think you need to discuss this some more and maybe come to a compromise. Some things you might want to consider/discuss together:
- How long an engagement do you both want?
- How big/expensive a wedding do you both want?
- How does marriage or lack there of impact on your family unit? (legalities such as next of kin etc)
- What are the ideal circumstances where you'd be happy to get engaged? (bearing in mind that nothing is ever ideal)

I do see where you're coming from OP, but I think there needs to be more of a two way conversation about this with your girlfriend.

woodchuck

SwissAlps105 wrote: »

His girlfriend is free to propose to him and buy him something expensive if she wants.

The OP said: "she doesn't want anything expensive she just wants to be engaged"

To me that sounds like she's put her cards on the table and has essentially been rejected without even having a proper discussion. Did she buy him an engagement ring? No. But that's hardly unusual...

Ursus Horribilis

Was your child planned? I'm looking at the time lines here. Together 2 years and you already have a one year old.

Springfields

Give her mother back the ring. She bought it. I think it's really unfair of your gf to involve her sister and mother when it should he a decision made by the two of you without pressure or interference. I would feel ganged up on too.
That said you know what your gf wants and it seems you want the same. If ye plan to marry at some stage why not get her a ring so she knows your committed? But do it when you are ready.. just don't keep her hanging on for too long. Maybe a ring will reassure her or maybe she will then start going on about a wedding..who knows..
Probably a discussion to be had sooner rather than later..

woodchuck

SwissAlps105 I know the analogy you're talking about and I'm not for one minute suggesting they actually get married until they're both in agreement.

But they need a serious conversation about their expectations for the future, which it doesn't sound like they have had. They have a child together, so it's not unreasonable that his girlfriend might want some sort of reassurance about their future together. As I said, a discussion needs to be had. At the moment having one person dictate when they'll make the decision for the both of them isn't very healthy!

ncmc

So you guys are together two years and have a one year old, so that means you were only together 3/4 months before she fell pregnant? Now you’re living with her parents and her mum bought a ring for you to give her? And your GF/her mother and sister are pushing you to get engaged? It all sounds like WAY TOO MUCH too soon. You’re whole relationship has been played out at a frenetic pace. It sounds like you didn’t even get to know each other before the baby came on the scene and with living with her folks, you have never lived together with just yourselves as a family unit. The whole thing sets off alarm bells for me to be honest.

I wouldn’t dream of getting engaged until you’ve lived together on your own. You need to take a deep breath and slow the relationship right down. You say you’re making movements to get your own place, so that’s good. Explain to your GF that you just want to concentrate on living together and raising your baby for the time being without the stress and pressure of a wedding to plan.

eviltwin

It doesn't cost anything to get engaged, the ring is not essential despite what people may think.

Getting a place together and having a family is about as committed as you can get getting a stable home has to be the priority. She sounds incredibly insecure and I'd worry if they do get engaged she wont be happy until a date is set.

Beware of people who equate love with money and gestures and do talk to her about what your expectations are when you do get engaged regarding spending on your wedding

And do put your foot down on the involvement of the other family members. It manipulative. Propose because it's what you want, not because you feel pressured into it

osarusan

Give the ring back and tell them politely but firmly to butt out. The mother bought it, and she can do what she wants with it, but she can't tell you to do something with it. Crazy to think you would now give it to her as a present as she knows you didn't buy it.

On the relationship in general, I think you are both probably looking at this from similar perspectives, but asking different questions.

From your perspective: you are together, have a child, have a life together, definitely plan to get married. There's no reason for either of you to feel that their partner's commitment is less than complete. So being engaged or not shouldn't be that big a deal. So why is she in a rush to get engaged?

From her perspective: you are together, have a child, have a life together, definitely plan to get married. There's no reason for either of you to feel that their partner's commitment is less than complete. So being engaged or not shouldn't be that big a deal.
so why is he not so keen to get engaged?

Seems like you both of an idea of the conditions you want in place when the engagement 'feels right' and this is one area where you differ.

meeeeh

Mother should butt out, give her back the ring, be nice because you live with her but firm.

Now what exactly are your plans regarding getting your own place? Are you planning on renting? Are you working? How old are you two, it's a lot different if you are 22 or 35.

The whole situation seems to me a bit immature. Can't you two have a serious conversation about what your plans for future are? Where do you plan to live, are you relying on state subsidies for living on your own? If you want to get married, what kind of wedding you want, how are you going to pay for it? I'm the last person to hurry you into a marriage, we were engaged 10 or so years and had 2 kids before we got married. But we were financially independent (well as much as you can be with a mortgage), we built our own house, knew we want to spend the rest of our lives together and approached anything we did with this in mind. Wedding for me was sorting out legalities, I felt very secure and supported not being married. Somehow I don't think your gf feels that and maybe she shouldn't. Maybe you two are not ready for a marriage or any other long term commitment (mortgage) and that should be discussed too.

sbsquarepants

I'd give it back to the mother. As far as I'm concerned - i'll get married or engaged at a time of my own choosing! As for engagement, that time will be never.

I don't see the point in engagements - this is isn't the 17th century. The way I see it you're either married or you're not - there's no halfway measure. A bloke I work with has been engaged so many times that we call him "the lord of the rings" - it's pretty much just meaningless bullshít these days.

The real mccoy 91

Thanks for the replies a bit more clarity on the situation

I'm 27 and she's 23 our son was not planned we were together 3 months but that's irrelevant as he's the best thing that's happened to us. I left my job 4 months ago to be at home with him as childcare was becoming tricky and I felt it would be more beneficial to him. We are looking at renting our own place.

I'm not sure the mother knew she thought it was an engagement ring or just a Valentine's present. But I still do think it's unfair the way she has gone about it. I think it is more coming from her insecurities that she's asking about it and it's not the first time. She's not looking to plan a wedding as it's not feasible for us at the moment.

My ideals of the situation would be that we have our own place and I want us to be more financially stable. I see it as a little disrespectful if we do it while living with her parents priority for me is getting out into our own place I have said this to her. From my point of view an engagement won't mean much it won't change anything for me I've told her I plan on us having a life together and that won't change. It's a much bigger deal to her.

I was already set on giving the ring back as that and I do plan on airing my thoughts about the way she has gone about it. At the end of the day my priority is our son and finding our own place. Clearly not the same for her and I don't appreciate being pressured as has happened

Ursus Horribilis

I think your gf getting pregnant so soon has a lot to do with how things have panned out. Did she forget to take the pill? This has all moved way too fast and I think the pair of you need to talk. And yes, get your own place away from the parents.

Calltocall

This is not the fifties, don’t let anyone pressure you to get married, if you do I don’t think it will end well and you will resent the fact that you didn’t do it out of your free will.

Get out of the house and get a place of your own, the mammy will have to butt out don’t let her run your life. This all stems from old fashioned crap, focus on loving your baby and getting a place for yourselves then if you want to get married, get married, if you don’t, don’t.

Dial Hard

The real mccoy 91 wrote:

I was already set on giving the ring back as that and I do plan on airing my thoughts about the way she has gone about it. At the end of the day my priority is our son and finding our own place. Clearly not the same for her and I don't appreciate being pressured as has happened

What are you actually *doing* about getting your own place though? It's good and well saying "I want our own place before we get engaged" but if there isn't an actual plan in place for that that's being actively worked towards by both of you then I can see why your girlfriend might be a bit "This is never going to happen".

Having said that, I do think you need to sit back and assess the situation with a slightly objective eye - you said your son is the best thing that ever happened to you: great, but how's your relationship with her outside of the parenting equation??? You haven't actually really mentioned that. If you guys hadn't gotten pregnant so soon would you still be having the engagement discussions? Would you still be together? If your hand-on-heart answer to those questions is "Yes", then great, full steam ahewad with your own place & engagement plans but the fact that you're refusing to get engaged pretty much on principle is telling to me.

ncmc

Saying your sons arrival is irrelevent is completely missing the point tbh. I don't doubt he's the best thing that has happened you, but it has pushed your relationship along at a speed way faster than would be normal. You never got to know your GF properly before this life changing event happened. Also she was very young becoming a mother, it may partly explain her irrational need to get engaged. I wouldn't go so far as to suggest entrapment or a paternity test, but you do need to accept that it changed your relationship dynamic in a massive way and it might be beneficial (for you both) to take a breath, slow things down a bit and get to know each other a bit better living in your own place before taking another massive step

Calltocall

Dial Hard wrote: »

What are you actually *doing* about getting your own place though? It's good and well saying "I want our own place before we get engaged" but if there isn't an actual plan in place for that that's being actively worked towards by both of you then I can see why your girlfriend might be a bit "This is never going to happen".

Having said that, I do think you need to sit back and assess the situation with a slightly objective eye - you said your son is the best thing that ever happened to you: great, but how's your relationship with her outside of the parenting equation??? You haven't actually really mentioned that. If you guys hadn't gotten pregnant so soon would you still be having the engagement discussions? Would you still be together? If your hand-on-heart answer to those questions is "Yes", then great, full steam ahewad with your own place & engagement plans but the fact that you're refusing to get engaged pretty much on principle is telling to me.

I agree with above, remember this just because you have a child doesn’t mean you have to get married, this was the way it was done years ago, this was influenced by the church, a lot of mammies and daddies followed what the church said blindly and ended up in miserable marriages for the sake of the child and for fear of shame, a lot of mammies and daddies still carry that legacy of the church but it’s a different Ireland today thankfully, you need to be compatible with your partner for it to work, you need to live together yourselves without interference to get to know each other then if you are both happy with each other then make that step. Your current situation doesn’t lend itself to knowing if you are truly compatible.

LegacyUser

How important is it you stay with your girlfriend? I don't mean it as a threat and nobody should threaten a break up in order to get what you want, but from what you've posted you seem to only be concerned about not getting pushed into things because YOU don't want to.

What about her? She doesn't seem to have a say, instead it's about when YOU feel like getting married. Yes I know you don't really want to right now, but she's the one who'll be left with all the responsibility (usually) if you up and leave, with more chances for you to go on and meet another partner than she will seeing how she has a kid to look after...I'd be very nervous myself in that situation.

Marriage doesn't mean the relationship will last but it gives a bit more security to both of ye.

So far all I hear is her saying clearly what her needs are, for more security, and you just keep rejecting her- don't you think that'll affect the relationship? So far there no concrete sign of security or future plans - no house, no renting together, no engagement. .surely you can see her side too? And why not get engaged and have a long engagement if that gives more security to her?

meeeeh

Calltocall wrote: »

I agree with above, remember this just because you have a child doesn’t mean you have to get married, this was the way it was done years ago, this was influenced by the church, a lot of mammies and daddies followed what the church said blindly and ended up in miserable marriages for the sake of the child and for fear of shame, a lot of mammies and daddies still carry that legacy of the church but it’s a different Ireland today thankfully, you need to be compatible with your partner for it to work, you need to live together yourselves without interference to get to know each other then if you are both happy with each other then make that step. Your current situation doesn’t lend itself to knowing if you are truly compatible.

While it is different Ireland today, father's rights in Ireland and rights around cohabiting are still very poor. Marriage is a type of legal contracts that offers you quite a lot of rights and protections that cohabiting doesn't. I'm not advocating op rushes into marriage but there are actual benefits to being married not just church teachings.

Calltocall

meeeeh wrote: »

While it is different Ireland today, father's rights in Ireland and rights around cohabiting are still very poor. Marriage is a type of legal contracts that offers you quite a lot of rights and protections that cohabiting doesn't. I'm not advocating op rushes into marriage but there are actual benefits to being married not just church teachings.

I agree it’s not entirely of the church’s doing but I believe an awful lot of the pressure that comes in theses situations stems from their legacy particularly when it comes from older parents, it’s how it was in their day. Whilst marriage certainly does afford protection to the father it is not reason enough to get married, they should get married if both of them want to, not to gain extra rights or because of pressure otherwise they’ll be heading for divorce down the line and that’s a whole other mess to get untangled from.

Ursus Horribilis

Once you get to a certain stage, you might as well get married because it tidies up a lot of legal stuff. But in the case of our OP, it would be pure madness to move to the engaged stage just now. While I don't doubt that his son is wonderful, the way this relationship has progressed means that he needs to take his time. Does he even know his girlfriend that well, seeing as they became parents so soon? Did she "trap" him by getting pregnant so quickly? If she the sort of person who has wanted the children and the white wedding and the house with the white pocket fence? (I think most of us have met a woman like that)

How can they live a normal life when living in her parents place. They badly need time and space to see if they are suited in the long term.

wiggle16

Mine is another vote for give the ring back to the mother. Just say you appreciate the gesture but it's something you want to buy and do yourself, you want it to be from you. They are meddling and shouldn't be, but don't make a big deal about it. The mother might just want to shut her up (I know I would).

To be honest I'm on your side with this, it takes two people to make an engagement - ultimately you both need to be ready and willing to get engaged. If you're not, then you're not. Your girlfriend needs to understand this - but for her to understand it, you need to have a proper sit down and talk about it.

So Woodchuck is absolutely right, you need to sit down and talk about this properly and find a compromise and understand each other's positions - saying "when the time is rght" etc is too vague a thing to say to someone who is so dead set on getting engaged. If you tell her you want to marry her but you don't want to get engaged yet then you need to outline when you'll feel the time is right, whether thats when you find a flat, buy a house, live together for a year etc. Set out your terms, clearly. At least that gives her something to go on.

At the same time, she needs to chillax. Myself, that kind of carry on would drive me insane, it's always struck me as self-involved and babyish to pressure a partner into proposing, and involving her mother and sister is very disrespectful of your feelings. This is your relationship, not just hers. She needs to understand your point of view and for that you need to talk honestly. Saying that she won't feel you guys are serious til there's a rock on her finger would really annoy me. An engagement is not supposed to be proof of commitment. Not nice IMHO.

As another said, there's nothing stopping her proposing to you. It might not be a leap year, but it's February but if she did propose to you OP, what would your answer be?

wiggle16

eviltwin wrote: »

. She sounds incredibly insecure and I'd worry if they do get engaged she wont be happy until a date is set.

Beware of people who equate love with money and gestures.

Obviously the OP knows her best, but I definitely agree with this... and I strongly suspect this is what will happen if the OP gets engaged just to appease her.