Newbie Questions

Johnboy1951

I have presently absolutely nothing automated in the house.
I am considering gradual automation of some functions including adding some new ones.

First I am considering a couple of cameras for the property .... outside.
These would need to connect into my LAN, and not require any specific software for full functionality.

I prefer open source software, and there are no Windows or Apple based devices or operating systems in the household.
Where possible Linux is the OS of choice.

I intend to run a central server for any automation software and storage required. It will, hopefully be on the same machine as my HTPC software and storage.

So amongst all the bewildering options and different limitations (mostly unstated when reading blurb sheets) I am at a complete loss where to start.

I think I should get an IP camera, 720 minimum res, and see how things work out.

To dip my toes in this water/wild sea I think a fairly basic camera would be appropriate (less cost) and if I proceed with automation maybe get better gear in future.

So is there a suitable starters IP camera that would suit my situation? Something that maybe could be re-purposed later for less demanding tasks? Initially I would be looking for an outside camera, hopefully with movement sensor and night vision. This could be without pan & zoom etc.

I will hopefully, at a later date, get around to automating my heating system, which is getting close to finishing (by year end) with multiple zones of underfloor heating downstairs and one upstairs radiator zone .... maybe retrofit individual room stats to control each room. Anyway that is in the future, but will I hope also be controlled from the same server.

First the single camera to start ...... suggestions?

bk

A lot (but not all) of the cheap Chinese IP cameras can be flashed with a third party firmware, which would allow you to then access their video stream via RTSP.

Those would probably be a good place to start, super cheap, like about €20, so a nice place to play around with things. Yi cameras are examples of some that can be flashed *

* Note I have these cameras, but haven't flashed them, so no guarantees.

Here is some info on how to flash them:
https://github.com/shadow-1/yi-hack-v3

You'll probably also want to check out Home Assistant. Open Source Home Automation software that runs on Linux, so sounds like would suit your needs:

https://www.home-assistant.io/

If you can get Home Assistant up on running, that is an excellent starting place and works with lots, if not most HA devices.

OpenHab is another option.

Johnboy1951

Thanks BK.

Yes I have been looking about at software, including those you mentioned, and have a lot of research to do before trying anything.
I need to be sure I am not too far out of my depth

Are there any cheap cameras like the Yi which do not have to be flashed to use as I would wish?

If not then I guess the Yi is the option I should take initially.

So far the software I have listed for investigation is as follows
https://www.openmotics.com/
https://www.home-assistant.io/
https://calaos.fr/en/
https://www.openhab.org/
https://domoticz.com/
http://www.domogik.org/en/

I have not yet delved into those and some might not be suitable while others might just be 'too much' for me.

If anyone has experience of any of those or other alternatives I would be glad to read your opinions.

Thanks again BK for letting me know about the possibility of flashing the cheap Yi cameras.

bk

Well it seems this Xiaomi camera which looks to be almost exactly the same as the Yi ones, can save to a NAS (via Samba) out of the box:

https://www.gearbest.com/ip-cameras/pp_009981882806.html?wid=1433363

Of course there are then more traditional style CCTV cameras, that work with a DVR, etc. But obviously cost goes up.

Johnboy1951

From what little I have been able to access so far about those cameras it seems I would be much better off paying dearly for a 'proper' camera with ethernet connection and no requirement for any mobile application or interface or proprietary set up.

I have no intention of using wireless .... in fact I do not want it or will want to disable it if present.

I want complete control of the data in my hands, not controlled by some (possibly dodgy) software.

It seems I have a lot of research to do before I can even decide on a suitable camera.

Thanks for the help.

Lucifer

Have a look at zoneminder for cctv recording. Works with most cameras available. If you use h264 pass through option it doesn't use too much resources.

bk

Sure, then probably a POE (power over ethernet) CCTV cameras connected to a DVR.

I want complete control of the data in my hands, not controlled by some (possibly dodgy) software.

Though at some level you will always have to rely on some ones software. The camera is going to need firmware. Your NAS/DVR will need to run software to connect to and record the cameras. You might want to integrate with Home Assistants or someones elses software, maybe use Home Assistants apps to remotely view the cameras, etc.

At the end, this is all software written by someone and if you want to use it you'll need to learn to trust it.

Of course you can reduce your potential exposure to bad software/actors. Use open source where you can, review the source code yourself, build the code from the reviewed source, set up your own firewall, etc. All good ideas, but not simple.

BTW flashing that third party firmware on Yi cameras would be quiet nice. That third party firmware is open source, you can download it, review it and build it yourself. No guarantees, I haven't reviewed the code myself, but a lot better then trusting an unknown third party company.

Johnboy1951

Lucifer wrote: »

Have a look at zoneminder for cctv recording. Works with most cameras available. If you use h264 pass through option it doesn't use too much resources.

Thanks, yes I have used zoneminder some time back.
Also have played a little with motion recently.

bk wrote: »

Sure, then probably a POE (power over ethernet) CCTV cameras connected to a DVR.

Yes, it does seem that is the way I am headed.

Though at some level you will always have to rely on some ones software. The camera is going to need firmware. Your NAS/DVR will need to run software to connect to and record the cameras. You might want to integrate with Home Assistants or someones elses software, maybe use Home Assistants apps to remotely view the cameras, etc.

At the end, this is all software written by someone and if you want to use it you'll need to learn to trust it.

Of course you can reduce your potential exposure to bad software/actors. Use open source where you can, review the source code yourself, build the code from the reviewed source, set up your own firewall, etc. All good ideas, but not simple.

BTW flashing that third party firmware on Yi cameras would be quiet nice. That third party firmware is open source, you can download it, review it and build it yourself. No guarantees, I haven't reviewed the code myself, but a lot better then trusting an unknown third party company.

Exactly!

First of all I trust, without any effort on my part, well known and used opensource apps, better than any proprietary software. Even more so for software from unknown (to me) entities.
With opensource software I can at least examine the source if I have concerns (or get someone to do so for me if I am unable).
I do not wish to place trust in some unknown entity with the output of my cameras (when & if I get them working ).

To me this is particularly important where sound and vision from my home is concerned.
I do not wish to be tied into any particular software or proprietary scheme.

It was not unintended that I use Newbie in the title.
The only exposure I have had to cameras has been USB connected webcams, which all use a standard output these days.

I guess I foolishly expected something similar to be the situation with security type cameras connected to LAN.

Johnboy1951

I came across this camera today.
It is only 720p but suitably cheap so that would be acceptable for my first tests.

It is 12V and has an ethernet socket and apparently states compatibility with Windows which seems promising.

https://www.gearbest.com/surveillance-camera-system/pp_009952335957.html?wid=1433363&utm_source=mail_api&utm_medium=mail&utm_campaign=GB_regular_190212_1549961861_o69&eo=VXVSNIIYSXWVGGYU

Any opinion on whether this might be suitable for my initial tests?
I really want to get the camera output on the LAN from the camera, if possible without using wifi.

Thanks for the helpful responses to date.

paulbok

Have a look at the compatible cameras for Home Assistant and see if they suit your needs.
Highly recommend using HA to control and monitor everything.

Johnboy1951

paulbok wrote: »

Have a look at the compatible cameras for Home Assistant and see if they suit your needs.
Highly recommend using HA to control and monitor everything.

Thanks, HA is one of those I will be looking at for the software side.
I am unsure if it will marry easily into my server as yet.
Lots of investigation to be done.

Johnboy1951

I have not (as yet anyway) come across mention of the Mozilla development for their 'Things Gateway', so thought to drop a couple of links here in case anyone might be interested in an opensource means of controlling all 'things' in the home environment.


https://iot.mozilla.org/gateway/

https://iot.mozilla.org/things/

https://hacks.mozilla.org/2018/10/home-monitoring-with-things-gateway-0-6/

https://hacks.mozilla.org/2019/01/cameras-sensors-whats-next-for-mozillas-things-gateway/

https://hacks.mozilla.org/2018/02/how-to-build-your-own-private-smart-home-with-a-raspberry-pi-and-mozillas-things-gateway/

Johnboy1951

I ordered the "go,comma" camera I linked above and it arrived today.
Plugged it in to LAN and logged in and can view output.

720p 25 or 30 fps which will do for testing.

The webif is in Chinese or some such, and the output appears to be flash at least for now.

I can display the pic in Chrome for the moment.
Will investigate further as I get time.

Pleased enough with my first dip into these waters.

Thanks for the advise thus far.

Johnboy1951

It took me several days to get past the Chinese interface and get the English one showing, which made things much easier to deal with.

I was unable to find anything giving details how to connect to the various streams and controls.
So I did a lot of digging and found flatpak for an onvif viewer which worked eventually.
To get the correct RTSP gave further difficulties, but Xeoma dug me out on that one.
I was quite impressed with that software, but for the present will be going the simple router, using RTSP.
I have the camera output now integrated with my LAN TV and can view it on any device just like a TV channel.
I played a little with movement detection, specifying max and min areas etc but have a lot to learn to make good use of that.

I will add a few links here in case anyone might be interested ...

https://felenasoft.com/xeoma/en/videotutorial/

https://gitlab.com/caspermeijn/onvifviewer
https://flathub.org/apps/details/net.meijn.onvifviewer
https://www.debugpoint.com/2018/08/onvifviewer-internet-camera-viewer-for-linux/

https://www.ivideon.com/ivideon-server-linux/

http://camhi.top/

http://www.lingodigit.com/index.html

This one seems particularly good but I have not had a chance to test it yet. It is touted as the Zoneminder replacement
https://shinobi.video/

There are a lot more options out there than I first thought, so lots to do before any decision on which might suit me best.

Johnboy1951

I ordered a second camera being well pleased with the GoComma 720 I bought, and how it has worked out with reasonable software.
This time I decided on a dome type but IP66 the intention being to be able to use it to track movement as it has PTZ
https://www.gearbest.com/ip-cameras/pp_009428210043.html?wid=1433363
and claims of compatibility with Windows so should suit.

All fine and good except I received a different camera! :mad:
What arrived was a Yi dome home camera with PTZ and not waterproof, and of course all the problems associated with receiving streams via HTTP or RTSP.

I managed, after nearly two days, to set it up using an app and got it connected via ethernet cable to my LAN.
So far I can ping it but nothing more.

I have a ticket opened, but there is not much I can do about it, considering the cost of the camera and the unreasonable cost of return postage. (Maybe Gearbest don't know that )

If I end up keeping it I will probably have to use it indoors and put 3rd party firmware on it to get RTSP stream working.

Real bummer

Specification
General

Brand: Gocomma 
Certificate: CE,FCC,RoHs 
Shape: Hemispherical Camera 
Technical Feature: Pan Tilt Zoom,Waterproof 
IP camera performance: Backlight Compensation,Motion Detection,Night Vision,Real-time video capture and recording,Screenshot,White Balance 
Motion Detection Distance: 10m 
Compatible Operation Systems: Microsoft Windows 98 / ME / 2000 / XP,Windows 7,Windows 8 
APP Language: Chinese Traditional,English,French,German,Italian,Japanese,Korean,Portuguese,Russian,Simplified Chinese,Spanish 
Connection: Wireless

Network

Protocol: IP,P2P 
Wireless: WiFi 802.11 b/g/n 
WiFi Distance : 10 - 15m 
Network Port: RJ-45 
IP Mode : Dynamic IP address 
Online Visitor (Max.): 6 
Safety: Administrator password protection

Johnboy1951

I guess I will just write off that dome cam .... might research changing firmware at some future time.

In the meantime I think this one will do as a companion to the first one I bought
https://www.gearbest.com/ip-cameras/pp_009144605885.html?wid=1433363

They both appear to have similar specs, besides resolution, especially this

Protocol: DDNS,DHCP,DNS,FTP,HTTP,IP,LAN,P2P,PPPOE,RTSP,SMTP,TCP,UDP

The 720p camera is working well for me
https://www.gearbest.com/surveillance-camera-system/pp_009952335957.html?wid=1433363

Anyone spot something that I missed which might mess up my intentions?

Thanks for feedback.

Johnboy1951

I only recently discovered that Bluecherry has gone completely opensource.
Previously it had openedsourced its cross platform client software, but now its server software has joined it.

I had seriously looked at this software for managing my (soon I hope) camera surveillance system, but the cost involved when compared to nearly as good open systems caused me to turn away.

It is now worth considering I believe.

http://www.bluecherrydvr.com/

http://www.bluecherrydvr.com/opensource/

I hope they do well with the new scheme.

Unfortunately I did not succeed yesterday in getting the server running ...... I tried on a R-Pi but it seems to not be ARM compatible.
Pity.

Johnboy1951

I tested Shinobi today with one camera.
I installed ubuntu server on SD card in R-Pi 2 and added the Shinobi server and client software, and accessed Shinobi from my main PC through a browser.

I was very impressed with the variety of functions it has.
It is so extensive that to get properly to grips with it I will be required to RTFM!

It had no trouble attaching to my IP camera using RTSP ..... I tried a USB webcam but did not immediately succeed so left it to play with motion detection and recording from the IP cam.

All looks good ...... it was the Pro version I tried.

It seems the video surveillance aspect of things will be well covered by
Bluecherry
Shinobi
MotionEye
Zoneminder
and maybe more if I was to bother testing further.

Hopefully the info is of use to someone else.