HAP regulations

fire and ice

I have a property which I let out, the tenants receive HAP. I received a letter for the council today stating the following

Article 10 (1) Each house shall contain a suitable self-contained Fire detection and alarm system.

Does this mean smoke alarms ( which it has) or does it mean I need to install an alarm system?

Gumbo

Is it a house or an apartment?

fire and ice

kceire wrote: »

Is it a house or an apartment?

It's a house, I have already supplied them with an electrical cert and burner/ heating inspection.

GGTrek

A Fire alarm system as well + stick a bunch if warnings of what to do in case of fire + once a year have a certified fire engineer test all the fire detectors and the alarm system, fix any issues and give you a signed report.

Gumbo

fire and ice wrote: »

It's a house, I have already supplied them with an electrical cert and burner/ heating inspection.

Should be standard interlinked smoke detection required based on when the house was constructed.

If it meets the minimum rented standards for private accommodation then your fine.

Pkiernan

Self contained typically means the regular detectors you buy in Woodies etc.

fire and ice

Thanks for the replies, I'm just getting more worried about the costs mounting up. The rent just about covers the mortgage. I had to move counties for work, it was never meant to be an investment property. I myself now rent elsewhere. If the council decide it doesn't meet regulations and stop payment I'm screwed.

Gumbo

fire and ice wrote: »

Thanks for the replies, I'm just getting more worried about the costs mounting up. The rent just about covers the mortgage. I had to move counties for work, it was never meant to be an investment property. I myself now rent elsewhere. If the council decide it doesn't meet regulations and stop payment I'm screwed.

Just about covering the mortgage means you will still have a substantial tax bill.
Alarm detectors are a tax right off and you should have them in place in anyway.

myshirt

"Just about covering the mortgage" ignores the capital appreciation. If they are covering your cost of finance and contributing to the capital, that's not too bad a deal. It's perspective.

fire and ice

kceire wrote: »

Just about covering the mortgage means you will still have a substantial tax bill.
Alarm detectors are a tax right off and you should have them in place in anyway.

There are smoke alarms in the property which is why I am wondering do the also want an alarm system of a different type.

mrslancaster

fire and ice wrote: »

There are smoke alarms in the property which is why I am wondering do the also want an alarm system of a different type.

Do you mean a security alarm?

fire and ice

mrslancaster wrote: »

Do you mean a security alarm?

No not a security alarm but some sort of fire alarm system? It has smoke detectors already which is why the letter surprised me. I will call the council on Monday but was wondering if anyone knew the regulations regarding HAP properties and fire/smoke alarms.

Graces7

Did they mention Carbon Monoxide alarms?

osnola ibax

For a start, the minimum standards apply to all rented dwelling and not just those where tenants are in receipt of HAP Support. However, local authorities, as contracted by the RTB, are obliged to inspect HAP properties within 8 months of the tenant signing up to HAP so there may be a greater impetus to inspect those.

My understanding of the regulations is that in a house there must be smoke alarms up stairs and down stairs. They must be either mains wired or have 10 year battery life. You also require a wall mounted fire blanket in the kitchen.

Obligations for apartments are different.

GGTrek

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2008/si/534/made/en/print

11. (1) Subject to sub-article (2), the house shall contain a fire blanket and either a mains-wired smoke alarm or at least two 10-year self-contained battery-operated smoke alarms.

(2) Each self-contained house in a multi-unit building shall contain a mains-wired smoke alarm, a fire blanket and an emergency evacuation plan.

(3) Emergency lighting, linked to the fire alarm system, shall be provided in all common areas within a multi-unit building.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2017/si/17/made/en/print
6) Each house shall contain, where necessary, suitably located devices for the detection and alarm of carbon monoxide.

Above the minimum required by law. Then some HAP jobsworths try to ask thst everything is up to lstest building regs. This they should not do and you should strongly push back.

fire and ice

GGTrek wrote: »

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2008/si/534/made/en/print

11. (1) Subject to sub-article (2), the house shall contain a fire blanket and either a mains-wired smoke alarm or at least two 10-year self-contained battery-operated smoke alarms.

(2) Each self-contained house in a multi-unit building shall contain a mains-wired smoke alarm, a fire blanket and an emergency evacuation plan.

(3) Emergency lighting, linked to the fire alarm system, shall be provided in all common areas within a multi-unit building.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2017/si/17/made/en/print
6) Each house shall contain, where necessary, suitably located devices for the detection and alarm of carbon monoxide.

Above the minimum required by law. Then some HAP jobsworths try to ask thst everything is up to lstest building regs. This they should not do and you should strongly push back.

Thank you, going by this I met the requirements above. Of course I want the property to be of a good standard for the tenants. The obligations with HAP seem to be in excess of minimum standards. I intent to eventually move back into the property in the future so have always kept it in very good order with maintenance etc.

dennyk

myshirt wrote: »

"Just about covering the mortgage" ignores the capital appreciation. If they are covering your cost of finance and contributing to the capital, that's not too bad a deal. It's perspective.

The difficulty for most "accidental landlords" is cash flow. Capital appreciation is nice on paper, but you can't pay your monthly bills and expenses with it. If they end up in a situation where the rent they're collecting minus the taxes and cost of upkeep doesn't cover their mortgage payments, they might not be able to keep up with both the remaining mortgage payments plus their own rent. And if their place was bought at the height of a bubble and is worth less than what they owe, they might end up in a very difficult spot indeed; can't afford to sell it and can't afford to keep it.

KneonK

fire and ice wrote: »

No not a security alarm but some sort of fire alarm system? It has smoke detectors already which is why the letter surprised me. I will call the council on Monday but was wondering if anyone knew the regulations regarding HAP properties and fire/smoke alarms.

The regulations that private rented inspectors use (not HAP inspectors because that title doesnt exist and all the regs are the same) basically state that:

You need a smoke alarm on each floor. It must either have a 10 year battery OR be is wired but also have a 10 year battery. Can buy them in woodies.

If you have a building broken into flats. Each flat must have it's own smoke alarm either 10 year battery OR mains wired with 10 year battery.
You will also need to have a common area L3X system. This consists of a heat detector on each floor and a sounder on each floor, a heat detector in the hall way for each flat and a sounder in each flat, all of this interlinked back to a central fire panel. This system must be serviced regularly with proof available such as a service logbook.
The L3x system is In addition to the 10 year mains wired smoke alarms as it's serving a totally different function. But once again all that is just for pre 63 buildings broken into flats.