Business owner responsible?

MrMusician18

Witnessed the aftermath of the following this morning:
Car parked on side of the road, not in a designated car space but on a road margin. A heavy steel signboard advertising a local business normally beside where the car was parked was picked up by the high winds and thrown into the car, causing significant damage to the front and rear doors as well as rear quarter.

Presumably the business owner is wholly liable for the damage?
Or would blame be split?

Dravokivich

Surely that's force majure?

Allinall

With any luck it was the business owners car.

granturismo

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Witnessed the aftermath of the following this morning:
Car parked on side of the road, not in a designated car space but on a road margin. A heavy steel signboard advertising a local business normally beside where the car was parked was picked up by the high winds and thrown into the car, causing significant damage to the front and rear doors as well as rear quarter.

Presumably the business owner is wholly liable for the damage?
Or would blame be split?

Was the car occupied or did you leave your contact details?

MrMusician18

granturismo wrote: »

Was the car occupied or did you leave your contact details?

Car was parked and unoccupied. and no I didn't leave details. I didn't witness the incident only the aftermath, but was clear from the debris from the sign lying next to the car what had happened.

Car is there most days when I'm passing, so presumably it's someone who works nearby.

wonski

There is a strong wind warning for all country yet some shops think it's a good idea to put out those signs on footpaths. Asking for trouble.

scamalert

to many variables, as OP says it wasn't designated parking area, also unclear what sort of sign- if it was installed by third party sign company might be liable then again given weather warnings there will be a lot more damages resulting from fallen trees debris etc.



true thou as its stupid to put out those hanging steel sign out at this weather- if it was the case business might be partially responsible, as its mad but some will still insist to have them outside.



But if it was fixed sign that got ripped off, doubt they are tested for hurricane speed winds.

grogi

Dravokivich wrote: »

Surely that's force majure?

ROTFL. Anything that was forecasted is not force majeure.

If a meteorite crashed nearby, debris felt on the sign and tripped it over - that would be force majeure.

wonski

grogi wrote: »

ROTFL. Anything that was forecasted is not force majeure.

If a meteorite crashed nearby, debris felt on the sign and tripped it over - that would be force majeure.

Not sure which type of sign it was, so won't blame the owner of it, however it is not armagedon out there (yet) so fixed pieces of steel shouldn't fly around.

If this was one of those free standing signs then we'll done to whoever put it there this morning, or didn't think to remove it for the weekend.

Del2005

wonski wrote: »

Not sure which type of sign it was, so won't blame the owner of it, however it is not armagedon out there (yet) so fixed pieces of steel shouldn't fly around.

If this was one of those free standing signs then we'll done to whoever put it there this morning, or didn't think to remove it for the weekend.

Then it would most definitely be the business owners responsibility. If it wasn't secured enough to handle the wind then they are liable, as you said it's not extreme wind. If they got it installed by a 3rd party it's up to the business owner to chase them.

MrMusician18

It was a sandwich board. Looks like a home made job (well I wouldn't have paid for that). Owner never takes it in.

I myself used to sometimes park close to where that sign was but noticed that it would damage my car if it tipped over, so parked further away on the day's I didn't take public transport. It was quite obviously a hazard so I was wondering if negligence on part of the car owner might have been a consideration.

robtri

it would be soley on the business to cover for any costs associated with their property causing damage
the motorists parking is irrelevant.

AndrewJRenko

Was the car parked legally?

Del2005

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Was the car parked legally?

That's irrelevant to the damage caused by the sign. You can still claim from another party even if you are DUI, spreading, no insurance or parked illegally etc. They are a different offence and while taken into account don't absolve the other parties negligence.

ted1

Sign owners fault.
Sign probably requires planning permission or would be considered as littering.

It should if been secured

AndrewJRenko

Del2005 wrote: »

That's irrelevant to the damage caused by the sign. You can still claim from another party even if you are DUI, spreading, no insurance or parked illegally etc. They are a different offence and while taken into account don't absolve the other parties negligence.

If he parked where he's not supposed to park, it would surely impact the 'negligence' or level of negligence at least. If it's parked on someone else's land with the landowner's permission, then that would impact the level of duty on the landowner.



If the sign-owner can reasonably expect that no-one should be parked there, that would impact their duty to control the sign.

Del2005

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

If he parked where he's not supposed to park, it would surely impact the 'negligence' or level of negligence at least. If it's parked on someone else's land with the landowner's permission, then that would impact the level of duty on the landowner.



If the sign-owner can reasonably expect that no-one should be parked there, that would impact their duty to control the sign.

Nope, you have to secure your property at all times. Trespassers can sue landowners for injuries, which is why landowers don't like strangers on their property. The fact that someone may committing another offence doesn't negate the fact that the owner is liable for damage caused by their property.

pa990

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

If he parked where he's not supposed to park, it would surely impact the 'negligence' or level of negligence at least. If it's parked on someone else's land with the landowner's permission, then that would impact the level of duty on the landowner.


If the sign-owner can reasonably expect that no-one should be parked there, that would impact their duty to control the sign.

If I parked my car upside-down in the middle of the road, and someone crashed into me.. it would be the other drivers responsibility. They should be driving in such a manor that allows them to stop in time .

Similarly, the sign owner should have had the sign secured in such a manor that it would or could not cause injury or damage to any person or property.

What if the sign hit a pedestrian who was not walking on the footpath, or a vehicle that was stopped on a motorway.. the sign owner would still be responsible.

You just have to prove
1. The owner of the sign
2. That reasonable precautions were not taken by the sign owner (or maybe the sign owner might have to prove that they took all reasonable steps to secure it)

Guy:Incognito

wonski wrote: »

There is a strong wind warning for all country yet some shops think it's a good idea to put out those signs on footpaths. Asking for trouble.

Its al,ost as if they dont expect people to park on footpaths........

Hoboo

grogi wrote: »

ROTFL. Anything that was forecasted is not force majeure.

If a meteorite crashed nearby, debris felt on the sign and tripped it over - that would be force majeure.

Force Majeure? You sure about that? ROTFL

wonski

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Its al,ost as if they dont expect people to park on footpaths........

Sure these can fly by footpaths and cause damage anywhere. Don't get too focused on the footpath part. People walk there, too.

AndrewJRenko

pa990 wrote: »

If I parked my car upside-down in the middle of the road, and someone crashed into me.. it would be the other drivers responsibility. They should be driving in such a manor that allows them to stop in time .

They absolutely should be driving in a manner that allows them to stop within the distance they see to be clear, but I'm not too sure about the responsibility issue.


It seems that if you hit a person on the road where you might not necessarily expect them, there is no comeback against the driver, and society in general blames the victim.


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/coroner-s-court/man-and-his-daughter-struck-by-4x4-after-going-to-feed-horses-inquest-hears-1.3776140

bazz26

And here we go again.

9935452

grogi wrote: »

ROTFL. Anything that was forecasted is not force majeure.

If a meteorite crashed nearby, debris felt on the sign and tripped it over - that would be force majeure.

Would agree
If the sign hit a person and they died, the signowner would be done for manslaughter

AndrewJRenko

9935452 wrote: »

Would agree
If the sign hit a person and they died, the signowner would be done for manslaughter

Unless the sign was in a car or jeep, in which case, it's just a 'tragic accident'.