I'm failing as a manager

wally1990

Just looking for advice from people who may have been in similar sitiations

Basically, I find my current situation all a bit weird.

I try to explain as best I can.

I' work in a financial related industry.

I was hired in the company 2 years ago as a team leader of dept A

I successfully created new processes and produres with my team and brought strutuce to the whole department.

My small team were excellent, good attitude, we worked well together and enjoyed the work.

My team were young, good at multi-tasking, good at technology and our systems, willing to learn for Themelves(which is hugely important) and we shared knowledge etc. They had a good attitude, took feedback well and also looking to make the work go well.

Obviously they were bad times but their attitude was always we can fix things and make things better with a solutions based approaches. They were positive most of the time

Then a reorganisation in the company happened this year

My role was up in the air initially

In the end I was reassigned to a new dept as a manager of an existing dept plus given a bunch of clients who I need to look after.

I'm struggling with my team and role for a number of reasons

1 - I'm really struggling to manage the operational work plus my managerial job.
Operations is taking up about 90% of my job.
I cannot delegate this work as this new team are at full Capacity themselves

2 there is a very poor attitude among some team members(constantly moaning, bad worthing the company and other depts)

3 team members (older staff) who are so rigid in their methods/approach to work and its very slow and unwilling to change

4 team members who are completely unwilling to learn new legislation or changes that effect their immediate role And expect to be hand fed everything about what's going on in the industry

5 unwilling to find answers to their queries themselves or come up with solutions to any problems. They only. Come with problems, no offer of solutions and expect to keep being given answers. It's very reactive

6 people believing They are busier than they actually are simply because they aren't good at mutli tasking or technology (where new team members /eg my old team are showing how much faster they can work and have a better attitude to the work

7 my own manager is very poor and doesn't listen to me.

He just takes in info and waffles a load of cooperate bull**** and doesn't actually help and leaves me back to my own devices

Sorry for the long post... But I suppose my question is how do you refocus and get back on track with managing workload,
growing a backbone and
speaking up to staff with bad attitudes.

I need to grow a backbone and work with this team and need to. Stop being an agony aunt while managing my own operational work too.


Whilst I'm being too busy in my operational work and I want to bring the team together and work better.

I feel like My new staff don't respect me either _some. Do but not all
(I'm much younger than them too and I've come into a terrible culture in this new role and I want to change it )

I want to turn this ship around and get the team to see the work isn't that much and its doable.

Any tips on people Management and managing workload

Snow Garden

Then a reorganisation in the company happened this year

When did the re-org happen?

You are not failing. If anything, you have quickly identified major problems that have existed for a long time.

Root cause is probably here;

my own manager is very poor and doesn't listen to me.

Why exactly is he poor (besides the waffle)? You need to make him listen or go above him immediately. If you leave it too long, you will become part of the problem.

Did you talk to the manager you replaced? You should. Don't take his word as gospel but get some of the history.

Your new role sounds unsustainable. Is it clearly defined? You cannot people manage when your capacity is only 10%. Who assigns the work and how do you know the team is at full capacity?

Have the team clearly defined goals and objectives/targets?

If it were me, I would make an example of the least performing resource, without him/her running to HR with a complaint of course.

You need to stop taking it personally. It's just business. Maybe it needs to fail (again?) before you see some options and support.

team members (older staff) who are so rigid in their methods/approach to work and its very slow and unwilling to change

Careful now

OMM 0000

You actually sound like a decent manager.

how do you refocus and get back on track with managing workload,
growing a backbone and
speaking up to staff with bad attitudes.

I would use regular performance reviews to deal with staffing issues. Talk about what they're doing well, and what needs to be improved. Do them once a month. Staff who refuse to improve will have little excuse, as there is a formal track record of the issues and a path to improvement. You'll find though that most staff will react positively to knowing how they can improve. A lot of unmotivated people just don't have direction.

Every manager has issues with poor staff. You're not alone on this.

I deal with them by firing them. Why make my life more difficult? I'm kind to them, pay them well, but if they refuse to make an effort or take the piss, they have to go. You can use HR to help with this process. HR usually have nothing to do, and they usually love the drama of firing people.

Regarding your workload, make lists. Aim for getting things done rather than doing them perfectly. You're not superman.

Don't forget to keep managing your boss.

Also remember it's just a job. And it's not your company. Don't stress out too much.

Zascar

Would you consider looking for a new job? So often going to a new company can be a breath of fresh air and have something good to do rather than constantly fire fighting and being under horrible pressure..

judeboy101

You do realise that multi tasking is one of the BS corporate buzz words you yourself have complained your own manager uses. Yet you used it about your own team. From a scientific pov, it actually doesn't exist so expecting someone to exhibit it is kind of a bad thing.

gimli2112

It's sounds like the problem is with the Company not you. I'll always be a grunt but I have in the past had a lot of sympathy from middle managers trying to get a job done on little to no resources.
If all the staff are moaning there's probably good reason.

manonboard

judeboy101 wrote: »

You do realise that multi tasking is one of the BS corporate buzz words you yourself have complained your own manager uses. Yet you used it about your own team. From a scientific pov, it actually doesn't exist so expecting someone to exhibit it is kind of a bad thing.

That's not true at all. In the real world it essentially means being able to manage and progress multiple work items by quickly sequentially switching between them appropriately.
It's not using each hand for different tasks at same time. It's about being able to help a client which is higher priority while another task is parked until the client is helped, or awaiting some input from another.
It's a general concurrency over a period of time, not a single point of time concurrency.

HandsomeBob

OMM 0000 wrote: »

.

I deal with them by firing them. Why make my life more difficult? I'm kind to them, pay them well, but if they refuse to make an effort or take the piss, they have to go. You can use HR to help with this process. HR usually have nothing to do, and they usually love the drama of firing people.

What sector do you work in? From my observation sacking someone is an arduous endeavour where everything needs to go through the proper HR procedure and disciplinary action (and that's only right).

And if someone decides to fight every step of the way in that disciplinary process (as well as knowing how to be cute and spoof/intimidate their way out of conflict) it just makes life even more miserable for the team. So the solution of firing someone is a good idea but incredibly difficult and stressful for all involved to actually get implemented....from my experience of course. I've seen companies spend years trying to get someone out the door in the right way that doesn't come back to them in a suit.

OP I don't really know what to say to you other than it sounds like you got royally shafted by getting shunted to another team. I'd start looking elsewhere because from the sounds of things you're not going to get any support.

OMM 0000

HandsomeBob wrote: »

What sector do you work in? From my observation sacking someone is an arduous endeavour where everything needs to go through the proper HR procedure and disciplinary action (and that's only right).

And if someone decides to fight every step of the way in that disciplinary process (as well as knowing how to be cute and spoof/intimidate their way out of conflict) it just makes life even more miserable for the team. So the solution of firing someone is a good idea but incredibly difficult and stressful for all involved to actually get implemented....from my experience of course. I've seen companies spend years trying to get someone out the door in the right way that doesn't come back to them in a suit.

OP I don't really know what to say to you other than it sounds like you got royally shafted by getting shunted to another team. I'd start looking elsewhere because from the sounds of things you're not going to get any support.

I work in IT.

I just make a case against the person.

To give a recent example:

The person was making inappropriate jokes, not working, and spent his days looking for other jobs and surfing the web. He told other staff members he does no work. He would then lie about the work he was doing.

He was asked to stop making the jokes (he didn't stop), and he continued to pretend he was working.

It was all provable and we fired him for it.

Of course, like the posts I see on boards all the time, to this day he claims he's the victim and did nothing wrong. It's amazing some people's ability to delude themselves.

Another example:

I had a programmer (remote worker) who kept disappearing due to his grandparents dying, multiple suicides in his family and amongst his friends, his apartment burning down, getting rare illnesses, etc. I tolerated it for 6 months. He then wanted payment for 2 months he did no work (provable he did no work) and of course he acted the victim. I could tolerate his fake stories but faking work is just unacceptable. I can plan around absence but I can't plan around fake work.

It never fails to baffle me. When employees think they're being "clever" and getting away with their lies and slacking, it's actually just a case of their manager tolerating their bull****. Our job is to manage them, so we know when they're surfing the web all day. Just because we don't give out to you, doesn't mean you got away with it.

caviardreams

Those things are perhaps more black and white and easier to take disciplinary action over - if people are just being rigid about change or inflexible or slow, and have "survived" a long time in their role already it can be more difficult to prove objectively that they problem is not partly the new manager having too high expectations etc. particularly if the issues have never been highlighted formally before.

People not turning up or breaching dignity and respect policies is easier to pull people up on imo

OMM 0000

caviardreams wrote: »

Those things are perhaps more black and white and easier to take disciplinary action over - if people are just being rigid about change or inflexible or slow, and have "survived" a long time in their role already it can be more difficult to prove objectively that they problem is not partly the new manager having too high expectations etc. particularly if the issues have never been highlighted formally before.

People not turning up or breaching dignity and respect policies is easier to pull people up on imo

I agree.

If they're just slow, it's almost impossible to fire them.

But it's possible to build a case against them if they refuse to do what you ask them to do, or are surfing the web all day, etc.

In my experience, from what I've witnessed other manager's doing, they usually just accept these bad employees as part of the job.

OMM 0000

OMM 0000 wrote: »

In my experience, from what I've witnessed other manager's doing, they usually just accept these bad employees as part of the job.

I saw this happen in TWO call centres. Supervisors don't note staff indiscretions, because they're their pet colkegue.

OMM 0000

Deleted User wrote: »

I saw this happen in TWO call centres. Supervisors don't note staff indiscretions, because they're their pet colkegue.

I hope the lesson you learned is to become friends with those who have power.

Tabnabs

OP, your initial team were dream to work with, the best and the brightest. A pleasure to deal with and manage their abilities. It probably turns out that while it made your work life easy, it did little to hone your managerial skills.

This new team are going to break your heart and are like a textbook example of what makes a managers life most difficult and stressful. This is where you will make it or fail as a manager. But this current role is where you learn to be a manager, not the easy life you had previously.

You have clearly identified the various areas of concern, you now need to formulate a strategy to deal with these issues as effectively as possible. You can't solve all the difficulties, but you can try to reduce their impact on the team and workload.

Do you have a mentor type figure who you can discuss these issues with in person? Often a past manager or a friend already in management who can be a sounding board and give you feedback on your strategy.

Finally, I'd recommend subscribing to the Harvard Business School 'The Management Tip of the Day', a daily email that offers interesting insights into best managerial practice and possible solutions to some of these tricky problems that arise for mangers.

csm

I have been in your position, albeit with a smaller team probably, and without the experience of having led a high-performing team previously. I left pretty sharpish, which I now regret.

Sounds to me like you've succeeded with your previous team and now they've parachuted you in to a poorly-performing team to try to improve it. The one thing that suggests that perhaps they haven't done that is your operational workload, which is too high for someone tasked with turning a team around. Is this something that has been assigned to you, or have you felt the need to take on a higher workload for the good of the team?

Regardless, if your manager is useless then go above them, but go above them with a plan. Here's what I would do (bearing in mind I am a failed manager, take with a pinch of salt):
* identify the employees you need to get rid of and the ones you want to keep (the engagement vs performance quadrant might help with this)
* you need to reduce your operational workload - identify the least valuable clients that you can risk losing and deprioritise them.
* with your extra time, replace any toxic employees (evil thought: give your worst clients to your worst employees and thereby get rid of them all) and put in place a plan to improve the culture of your team. Coach those that need to work more autonomously or keep abreast of legislation or can't balance priorities (multi-task) and reward those that make improvements. Make it a fun and engaging place to work again. People generally want to do a good job and enjoy work, so if you can create the right conditions then usually they will get on board (providing you have got rid of the toxic individuals)
* make sure you keep your manager's manager informed of your plan and progress against it. Make it clear that you are going to them because you tried going to your manager for advice and he/she wasn't helpful.


If you manage to do all this then you are a hell of a leader! If your manager's manager isn't helpful then I would seriously consider switching jobs. After all, they had an opportunity to restructure and still ended up retaining a fair bit of dead wood by the sounds of it. This could be because your manager did not manage the restructure well, in which case the above plan will result in you taking their job. Alternatively, it could be that the restructure was poorly managed at all levels, in which case you would have to consider if it is the right place to continue your career.

Best of luck

beauf

I would switch to a better team as first choice. If thats not an option then...

Work out a triage system whats important vs nice to do. Track whats getting done, what isn't.
Look at automating things. Every 1% adds up.
Track what takes the most's time, what happens most often. Do those first. They will give you the biggest time savings.
When you fix an operational issue, think how it can applied to similar issues. Don't do them one by one.

You should be able track metrics, about how important something is, how often its happening, and is the time taken reducing over time.

I find the most important thing is information. People spend most time looking for problems and or information.
If you can give them that information faster, everything else happens faster.

SnipSnop

Sorry for the late reply and hoping its ok to bump this thread a bit.

Like all the others said you are not failing as a manager.
Some teams are easy (it help if they have not been there years and years)

But you have been hired to do a job and manage a bunch of people who all have different attitudes to their own job.

1. Deal with your own manager first and foremost. Explain all the issues you have identified and that things have to change.
Will you support me in this?. Get some firm commitment. If you cant get that, then maybe this is not the right person to talk to (or the right company to be in for that matter)


Cut the fat, and when I say fat I really mean the people who causes the most issues. They are like a cancer and will infect other people and take up most of your time.
Identify exactly who they are and then talk to HR.

Surely you have employment contracts in place that identify exactly what disciplinary procedure can be taken.
Get the legal team to figure out exactly can be used and then hammer down hard. (It could be any small thing, like taken too many small breaks, not meeting the required hours etc. The smaller the better to be honest. For the next warning something else.

The norm would be that a verbal or written warnings are needed before a final warning or dismissal.
If you handle it correctly one of two things will happen.

1. They fall into line.
2. They figure out that they are not wanted and will eventually get sacked and then end leaving before the final warning.

The meeting itself should be short and sweet. Remember that unless you do something about things will not change.

"It has come to my attention that you are not working the required hours as per your contract with the company. This needs to change.
Consider this your first official warning as per the standard company disciplinary procedure which I have a copy off here.
Make sure it does not happen again. That is all".
etc. Rinse and repeat.

And then do monthly performance reviews. Talk to people.
"What do you think about the project/s and work practices, what can be improved, etc etc)

The long term effect of this is that you will be consider as somebody who is a not roll-over and hopefully all the others will slowly but surely fall into line.

But make damn sure its leaked that change is coming.

SnipSnop

Oh and finally if you have issues with getting rid of any employer due to HR, unions etc etc. Hire on of the big consultancy company to deal with it. They have consultants who deal exactly with these type of issues. In the end people always leave.

(Friend of mine does exactly this type of work all the time)

Pricy, but what is worse. A guy who is useless and cost the company 50-60k a year or pay 20k to get him fired and get a new hire who is worth his salt and a team player.

the_syco

wally1990 wrote: »

I was hired in the company 2 years ago as a team leader of dept A

wally1990 wrote: »

In the end I was reassigned to a new dept as a manager of an existing dept plus given a bunch of clients who I need to look after.

It sounds like someone thought you'd be able to do what you did with the first team, with the second team.

wally1990 wrote: »

3 team members (older staff) who are so rigid in their methods/approach to work and its very slow and unwilling to change

4 team members who are completely unwilling to learn new legislation or changes that effect their immediate role And expect to be hand fed everything about what's going on in the industry

It sounds like the blind are leading the blind; they've stuck all the useless into the one section, and are now trying to fix said section.

Jim2007

OMM 0000 wrote: »

HR usually have nothing to do, and they usually love the drama of firing people.

Hard to take take you seriously after a comment like that.

Wanderer2010

Jim2007 wrote: »

Hard to take take you seriously after a comment like that.

He lost all credibility when he claimed that mind games don't happen in a workplace to be fair. Theres no comeback from such a stupid statement.

Berserker

SnipSnop wrote: »

Oh and finally if you have issues with getting rid of any employer due to HR, unions etc etc. Hire on of the big consultancy company to deal with it. They have consultants who deal exactly with these type of issues. In the end people always leave.

Pricy, but what is worse. A guy who is useless and cost the company 50-60k a year or pay 20k to get him fired and get a new hire who is worth his salt and a team player.

Given that the OP appears to be a team leader, I doubt that they'll have the ability to do this. A decision like that would need to be signed off on by HR and the head of a department. Most companies will think twice about hiring an external consultancy firm to get rid of staff. I know of one company who brought in a big four firm to do this. One of my best friends is a senior manager there. Much like software development, the consultants moved on after a few months and internal resources (HR in this case) ended up having to deal with the aftermath. A few members of staff, people they didn't want to lose, left. Oh and you'll do well to get anything from a big for consultancy firm for €20K.

I think you are underestimating the ability of the old hands who are causing the OP problems, also. They'll do just about enough to steer clear of trouble and they'll know exactly what to do to get rid of him or her. A loyal member of staff can have an awful lot of pull in a company. Always build bridges with the lifers!

the_syco wrote: »

It sounds like someone thought you'd be able to do what you did with the first team, with the second team.

It sounds like the blind are leading the blind; they've stuck all the useless into the one section, and are now trying to fix said section.

Sounds like the OP hit the jackpot with his first team to me. Might be the case that he hasn't been dealt as good a hand this time round and he needs to work with this lot. Regular performance reviews are the way to go, in my opinion. OP will need to be willing to cough up bonuses or perks to get any change though, I suspect.