Ex smoking with daughter (15) in house & car

unreg999

I have a very toxic relationship with my ex who is my daughter's Father... He was quite abusive during our marriage and has continued to be after, specifically anger issues.
I literally can't say anything to him without it causing WW3 or getting nasty threats.
Our daughter has a tenuous relationship with him too, but tries to see the good in him which I try to encourage except when he's going through a particularly nasty spell
One thing that has been a constant battle though is him smoking around her, I've put my foot down about it so many times in the past and he's always tried to wriggle around it, saying he always opens a window or doesn't smoke near her directly... He also smokes in the car with her (She is 15 by the way).
Fast forward to this weekend, she went to stay with him and his new girlfriend, she brought a friend as she isn't 100% comfortable around him (due to his anger issues, he's never been physical).
She came back ABSOLUTELY reeking... I mean all her clothes, her hair everything, I can smell it from another room
I'm disgusted and so angry. She had an ok time apart from that, but apparently they were smoking non-stop including in the car. I can smell it off my own clothes now just from interacting with her.
Any idea please, what do I do... I've tried to tell him so many times that I won't allow it and he doesn't listen to her when she asks him not to smoke around her, in fact he says- don't tell your Mother.
I know that if I say anything now it will start a war (we're in a REALLY bad place at the moment anyway) which I am willing to do for her sake but I just don't know...
Or should I just let it go, she only sees him every few months...???
(She's fairly sure he was smoking weed too)

blindside88

Would it be possible to stop him seeing her until he agrees not to smoke around her? I know you’ve said he has anger issues but would stopping contact all together be an option until he sees sense?

unreg999

blindside88 wrote: »

Would it be possible to stop him seeing her until he agrees not to smoke around her? I know you’ve said he has anger issues but would stopping contact all together be an option until he sees sense?

He has agreed not to in the past and just goes ahead and does it anyway but tells her not to tell me, she does and I've let it go because it was only one or two in a short journey but this time it was a whole weekend, a much longer journey to where she lives (his new gf) and two of then smoking heavily.

He has threatened me in the past and I've had to take out safety orders against him, he has also threatened to abduct her as he's not Irish.

It's a very difficult and volatile situation.

LegacyUser

To keep the peace, say nothing.
Maybe remind your daughter to open the car windows fully, or leave the room when he's smoking, or start a bout of fake coughing. If asked, she can say her throat/eyes just really really hurt with all the smoke. (A white lie, but it's for the greater good)
You can't control a grown mans behaviour, only your reaction to it. The less confrontation the better.

zapper55

Leaving the smoking aside, if she feels so uncomfortable with him that she brings a friend, surely it's time to reevaluate things? At 15 shes entitled to not see him if she feels like that.

I get the impression his threat of abducting her might be understandably influencing you from stopping the visits or pushing the non smoking thing. But he sounds unstable. How could you know for sure that he wouldn't abduct her either way?

I really think you need more professional advice. You can't keep going like this, for your sake

Charlie19

I really don't get why people smoke in the car..

If it's illegal to use a phone while driving then it should also be illegal to smoke.

As for smoking in an area with a child, that's totally irresponsible. I won't smoke with my dog in the same room.

Cash_Q

Charlie19 wrote:

If it's illegal to use a phone while driving then it should also be illegal to smoke.

I think it is now illegal to smoke in a car with a child

OP that sounds very tough. The fact she's only seeing him once every few months it might be worth letting it go for now, and next time he sees her try a gentle reminder at the start of the visit? The fact he's smoking weed around her is an absolute disgrace, it must be so stressful for you.

Her friend's parents must have been furious when the friend arrived home stinking, that is another awkward one for you. I hope they understand the difficulty of the situation.

I'm sure it goes without saying, but hide her passport. Give it to someone else to mind. This may not be enough; My friends kids were abducted to Algeria with fake passports, so prepare your daughter to alert authorities in an Irish airport if he tries anything. She's 15, tell her how to protect herself

It sounds like a very stressful situation, maybe speak to your solicitor about rearranging access.

Always Tired

Cash_Q wrote: »

I'm sure it goes without saying, but hide her passport. Give it to someone else to mind. This may not be enough; My friends kids were abducted to Algeria with fake passports, so prepare your daughter to alert authorities in an Irish airport if he tries anything. She's 15, tell her how to protect herself

uh, bit of a leap from smoking in the car.

my take: he's not gonna stop. so do you want to either a) let it go or b) stop him from seeing her altogether.

if it's b, then just don't even bother with the smoking tobacco and catch him out with the weed. if he's found to be using illegal drugs around her he will have his visits taken away. easy enough to find a joint roach in his ashtray, they'll be the stinky ones that have a little bit of rolled up cardboard in the end instead of a filter, and there's your evidence.

however, i would choose option a. second hand smoke from a few visits won't cause lung cancer, and while it may bother you, and you may think it sets a bad example, ultimately your daughter has to make decisions around smoking herself and there is/will be plenty of her peers doing it so if they don't influence her to do it it's unlikely she will do it because of her father.

if she's not comfortable around him, though, due to the anger, i think that's what should be addressed more importantly. does she want to continue these visits under these circumstances?

zapper55

Always tired, think you missed the past where he had previously threatened to abduct his daughter.

bigpink

I’d be seeking serious legal advice
Also don’t let another kid near him
What country is he from?

Big Bag of Chips

Does your daughter want to see him? Does she want to stay overnight/weekends. Being honest, the smoking aside, if your daughter is afraid of him, if he is aggressive and abusive then as a parent I wouldn't be very happy if my child was being brought along into that environment specifically to be a buffer.

She's 15. Let her decide whether or not she wants to spend time with him and how much time she wants to spend. You can't stop him smoking around her. And you can't stop him seeing her. But if she doesn't want to see him then that's that decision made. If she wants to see him but doesn't want to stay overnight or weekends then that can be facilitated too.

No judge is going to force a 15 year old to have overnight access.

seamus

Yeah, I'd agree with others that at 15 it's time for you to step back and give her some of the reins.

She may go do these overnights for your sake, for the sake of keeping the peace. In which case she's doing something you don't want her to do, because she thinks you want her to.

Or she may, as you say, want to see the good in her father and want a relationship with him, however iffy it is.

Either way, in 2 or 3 years time her relationship with her father will be 100% in her control, so you should start giving her more of that control now, so that when she's 18 she's not still going through the same routine because she feels like she has to.

She's probably aware that she stinks when she gets home. She's 15, I'm sure she washes her hair four times to get the smell out after the weekend. So give her the choice, and tell her that whatever she chooses, you will support her completely. If she doesn't want to go, you will weather the sh1tstorm with her. If she does, you will wash her clothes when she gets back.

In a more nefarious vein, you are still being controlled by your ex's abusiveness, even after your marriage has ended. You tolerate his behaviour because you fear the repercussions. I'm not criticising; this is a situation anyone could end up in when you have a child tying your together. My concern would be that your daughter is or will mimic your approach and tolerate her father's abusive nature for fear of angering it. That is not something a young woman should have to deal with. She should know that she shouldn't continue to maintain a relationship with anybody - father, friend or partner - out of fear of what they will do if you cut them off. Teach her that abusive and angry people should not be appeased, but the exact opposite - losing their temper should cause them to lose what love.

unreg999

Thank you for your replies-

She has asked him continuously in the past not to smoke around her especially not in the car but he just laughs and says it's no big deal and 'just don't tell your Mother'. I've always smelled it but let it go because it was only every now and then and a short amount of time.
This time it was a long car journey there and back with 2 of them smoking and also heavy smoking in his new gf's house all-be-it with windows open.
She literally reeked

Its 100% her choice to see him, he's been very volatile with her in the past especially in the car so now she refuses to be alone with him in the car. She's just been through a bout of no contact for around 3 months (her choice)... but he's her Father and she loves him. There is a lot of manipulation there too, it's very complicated.

I have absolutely 0 contact with him, we don't see each other, he refuses to speak to me and if I try to he is extremely aggressive and threatening so there's no way I can get proof or anything like that, I have never been to his house though he has forced our daughter to show him where we live and will drive past and turn outside my house though I have told him not to come near it.

He has threatened my life in the past, we have been separated almost 15 years now so there's A LOT of water gone under the bridge. I have had Safety Orders granted and have security cameras set up mostly for that reason.

He is Turkish and I've had her passport well hidden since she was very young, we've been through countless drills where I've gone through scenario after scenario of what to do if he tried anything.

It's probably best to say nothing and let it go at this stage... friend's parents haven't said anything but I'm mortified about that too.

It's so stressful and yes it is illegal to smoke in a car with children since 2016.

unreg999

Charlie19 wrote: »

I really don't get why people smoke in the car..

If it's illegal to use a phone while driving then it should also be illegal to smoke.

As for smoking in an area with a child, that's totally irresponsible. I won't smoke with my dog in the same room.

It actually is illegal to smoke with children in a car... but impossible to prove without getting her involved in a he said/she said thing.

He's a compulsive liar and Narcissist.. I tried to get full custody after he threatened abduction the first time and he told some nasty lies about me in court 'to win' (his words afterwards)

Big Bag of Chips

You're not going to stop him smoking. Nor is your daughter. So you deal with what you can do, rather than focus on something you have zero control over. I completely understand the manipulation and your daughter feeling the need to keep the peace. But your only options are limit her exposure to him, or accept she's going to come home every week, reaking.

I think you should speak to the other parent though. I'd be very annoyed (at you) if I felt you were knowingly putting my daughter in a volatile situation. If you discussed it with me first, and allowed me the chance to talk to my daughter about it, and explain to her that she could contact me to collect her at any point if she felt uneasy, then I would accept that we had agreed to this with full knowledge. At the moment though, the setup makes me very uncomfortable.

unreg999

seamus wrote: »

Yeah, I'd agree with others that at 15 it's time for you to step back and give her some of the reins.

She may go do these overnights for your sake, for the sake of keeping the peace. In which case she's doing something you don't want her to do, because she thinks you want her to.

Or she may, as you say, want to see the good in her father and want a relationship with him, however iffy it is.

Either way, in 2 or 3 years time her relationship with her father will be 100% in her control, so you should start giving her more of that control now, so that when she's 18 she's not still going through the same routine because she feels like she has to.

She's probably aware that she stinks when she gets home. She's 15, I'm sure she washes her hair four times to get the smell out after the weekend. So give her the choice, and tell her that whatever she chooses, you will support her completely. If she doesn't want to go, you will weather the sh1tstorm with her. If she does, you will wash her clothes when she gets back.

In a more nefarious vein, you are still being controlled by your ex's abusiveness, even after your marriage has ended. You tolerate his behaviour because you fear the repercussions. I'm not criticising; this is a situation anyone could end up in when you have a child tying your together. My concern would be that your daughter is or will mimic your approach and tolerate her father's abusive nature for fear of angering it. That is not something a young woman should have to deal with. She should know that she shouldn't continue to maintain a relationship with anybody - father, friend or partner - out of fear of what they will do if you cut them off. Teach her that abusive and angry people should not be appeased, but the exact opposite - losing their temper should cause them to lose what love.

I have told her for years that it is absolutely her choice to see him or not and I will support her 100% either way.
We have just gone through a bout of no contact for over 3 months due to a particularly nasty car journey she had with him, totally her choice and I stood by her though it was 'all my fault' and I was getting threats and aggressive texts.

The hate, anger, aggression, shouting & screaming is always about me and my partner not her. There's a few things he gets on to her about like hair, make up, clothes etc but not in an overly aggressive way

He is her Father and her feelings towards him are very complicated, I think the day is coming when she will be done with him but I'm not going to force that, it has to be her choice. At the same time I make sure her eyes are open about what's going on and I will stand by her and support her either way. Sometimes it's just to give her space to vent, rant and cry

They were both totally spoiled at the over-night stay and had a great time other than that. He always over-the-top spoils her (when he's not ranting and shouting about me and how much he hates me).

unreg999

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

I think you should speak to the other parent though. I'd be very annoyed (at you) if I felt you were knowingly putting my daughter in a volatile situation. If you discussed it with me first, and allowed me the chance to talk to my daughter about it, and explain to her that she could contact me to collect her at any point if she felt uneasy, then I would accept that we had agreed to this with full knowledge. At the moment though, the setup makes me very uncomfortable.

Thank you..
To be honest I don't really know the other parents at all, the girls arranged it between them and i checked with my daughter that her friend was allowed (her dad dropped her off to my house before they left)
It continuously amazes me that parents allow their teenage children to go places without full knowledge of where they are going.
If my child's going anywhere I need contact with the parents first, phone numbers and addresses.
This isn't the first time she's brought a friend to her Dads and I've never been contacted by any of their parents beforehand, neither has he as far as I know!
I have asked for parent's phone numbers in the past when kids are coming to MY house and been told I'm weird and over-protective (by my daughter!) and as for asking for addresses when she's going somewhere- especially overnight- I've been told that I'm being 'stalkerish'.
It would feel crazy for me not to!

Johnson_76

Ddcccc wrote: »

To keep the peace, say nothing.
Maybe remind your daughter to open the car windows fully, or leave the room when he's smoking, or start a bout of fake coughing. If asked, she can say her throat/eyes just really really hurt with all the smoke. (A white lie, but it's for the greater good)
You can't control a grown mans behaviour, only your reaction to it. The less confrontation the better.

I'm sorry this is terrible advice. Don't bow to bullies. If I were you. Refuse access, let him take you to court. Get a proper court order in place which excludes smoking. Best of luck

SoundsRight

Definitely hide her passport. There's too many horror stories about fathers from Turkey/Mid East who take their children away on 'holiday' and they don't come back. The law over there is stacked in their favour too.

Also, "This isn't the first time she's brought a friend to her Dads". Something a little alarming about a man who accommodates various teenage girls without their parent's knowledge.

unreg999

Johnson_76 wrote: »

I'm sorry this is terrible advice. Don't bow to bullies. If I were you. Refuse access, let him take you to court. Get a proper court order in place which excludes smoking. Best of luck

Thank you, the last time we went to court he threatened me and I had to get a protection order against him... the graveyards are full of women and children who 'stood up to bullies' I was hoping for some advice on how to handle this in maybe a bit of a less provocative way??

Also, he knows where we live now which I was trying to avoid.

I was told by a solicitor that it would be looked at VERY unfavourably for me if I stopped access.
The last time he brought me to court for access he was granted it every 2nd weekend... it lasted only 2 months and now they are each other maybe 4/5 times a year, usually in the town near where we live, this was the first time in a long time that she has stayed over ie been exposed to a long journey in the car with 2 of them smoking and then in her house again with them smoking.

Maybe there is no answer...

unreg999

SoundsRight wrote: »

Definitely hide her passport. There's too many horror stories about fathers from Turkey/Mid East who take their children away on 'holiday' and they don't come back. The law over there is stacked in their favour too.

Also, "This isn't the first time she's brought a friend to her Dads". Something a little alarming about a man who accommodates various teenage girls without their parent's knowledge.

Her passport has been hidden for years, the current reason he hates me so much is because he wanted to take her on holiday to Turkey to meet her family there around 2/3 years ago and I refused as did her Stepdad... Oh and because she started calling my partner her Stepdad which to him was the WORST thing that anyone had EVER done to him... totally her choice but 100% my fault according to him.

I think he just goes by the fact that she tells him they have permission from their parents... I would like to be more involved in the process but can't be as he goes from 0-100 in 3 seconds whatever I say.
However, I will step in if needed or if I think there's a danger or anything (as in this case).
Up to now it's always been the same friend (she's been twice with her I believe) but this weekend was a different one for the first time.

I also think there's something a bit alarming about patents letting their children go to strangers houses without contact with them, addresses or phone numbers?? (I'm not sticking up for him at all but it just seems so weird to me)

bigpink

I’d be cutting all contact with this man sounds very dangerous

qwerty13

I know you’ve said he will be very quick to anger if you get involved re your daughter bringing a friend with her, but I really feel you are being very remiss in allowing another child to unknowingly go into what you’ve described as a volatile situation. I would be really annoyed with you if I were one of your daughter’s friends parents.

Maybe this is a controversial point of view, but is it really your partner’s place to refuse to let her go to Turkey? I understand completely why you refused. Your partner refusing just seems that it may have fuelled the situation.

SoundsRight

He comes from a culture where women, be they partner or daughter, are essentially their property. If they are seen to not be in control of their women, it's like they lose face in front of their peers.

Is he legally permitted to live in Ireland? I wouldn't hesitate to shop him to immigration, he sounds like a nasty piece of work.

Cash_Q

Always Tired wrote:

uh, bit of a leap from smoking in the car.

See below quote from OP

unreg999 wrote:

He has threatened me in the past and I've had to take out safety orders against him, he has also threatened to abduct her as he's not Irish.

unreg999 wrote:

He is Turkish and I've had her passport well hidden since she was very young, we've been through countless drills where I've gone through scenario after scenario of what to do if he tried anything.

So sad that it's necessary but defo the right thing to prepare her.

unreg999

qwerty13 wrote: »

I know you’ve said he will be very quick to anger if you get involved re your daughter bringing a friend with her, but I really feel you are being very remiss in allowing another child to unknowingly go into what you’ve described as a volatile situation. I would be really annoyed with you if I were one of your daughter’s friends parents.

Maybe this is a controversial point of view, but is it really your partner’s place to refuse to let her go to Turkey? I understand completely why you refused. Your partner refusing just seems that it may have fuelled the situation.

Thank you for your comments, just to clarify again, he is volatile with me and my partner but not with my daughter unless it's about me/us, he doesn't do that in front of other people though.

When she is there he spoils them, brings them out for food, out shopping etc
No-one asked my opinion, I don't know these people and they never tried to contact me or ask for my number or anything like that. They MAY have been in contact with him though, quite honestly I don't know!
I checked with my daughter that they had her friend's parent's consent but after that I think it's up to them to check it out... which they may well have done for all I know! They weren't staying with me or in my house!

The issue I have is with him smoking around her and especially in the car. He has told me time and again he won't do that but he's still doing it and I'm mortified he also did it with her friend, but quite honestly, I am not responsible for him, that's on him, not me!

Obviously my partner has no right to say she can't go over, but he IS her Stepfather and has been there for her way more than he has... she says herself that she is much closer to him than her own Dad though she does love her Dad too.
He has been in her life for a long-time and has been a loving and stable presence for her, in that aspect he has every right to give his opinion which is what he did, same as the rest of my family and friends to be honest!
My daughter made the mistake of mentioning his name when he was quizzing her over why she wouldn't go and that's what caused the MAJOR blow up!
And to be honest, that's on him too... she shouldn't have to walk on eggshells around him and watch what she's saying! I stopped contact for a while after that but that was a few years ago and she's a lot tougher now.

unreg999

SoundsRight wrote: »

He comes from a culture where women, be they partner or daughter, are essentially their property. If they are seen to not be in control of their women, it's like they lose face in front of their peers.

Is he legally permitted to live in Ireland? I wouldn't hesitate to shop him to immigration, he sounds like a nasty piece of work.

Yes he is legally here as we were married, he has a child here and he's working here so he's on a work visa I presume?
I really don't know his business and don't want to know either, we have been separated over 15 years and divorced for most of that time.
I have less than minimum contact which is decreasing more and more as she gets older and better able to deal with things herself.

I will only step in if things become an issue (like with this smoking business) or if she gets upset about something, even then with the latter I try not to get involved unless it's necessary and just support her as best I can.

As it stands now she still chooses to have some contact with him mostly on HER terms, if she chooses to cut him out in the future which I suspect could happen then I know I will need to get more involved and try to take the blows for her!

It was over 10 years ago when he threatened to abduct her but that fear never goes away once it's voiced, we still speak about it as a possibility each time she sees him. I think it's very unlikely at this stage though. She is quite strong and fierce but he is still a manipulative bully