Alcohol Addiction Treatment Facilities (or lack of)

Hi,

Some people may not know this, but if you are a recovering alcoholic in Ireland, and you don't have private health-care, you have no residential rehabilitation treatment options, unless you are prepared to enter into a Catholic, religious institution, which will take just about anyone.

This institution, which I will not name, claims to not be denominational, but imposes fines on any person which does not attend Roman Catholic services such as Mass or its Rosary (these fines are deducted from social welfare payments).

I wasn't aware of this problem until i encountered this situation in my family, and most people probably don't know it either.

We all know that there is a serious problem of alcohol dependence in our society, but is this really the best that we can do? I'm not exaggerating here, and can explaine further if needed, but the institution in question is highly reminiscent to me of Magdalene Laundries. It is probably the biggest alcohol-treatment facility currently operating in Ireland.

endacl

Bollocks.

Of the top of me head... Rutland Centre.

moceri

There are several residential treatment centres. http://www.taborgroup.ie

endacl

Bollocks 2.

Deductions from SW can’t happen except at source by the dept, or as a result of a court order.

endacl

Bollocks 3.

I presume your OP is referring to Cuan Mhuire. Compulsory rosary ain’t true. Now, I’m as anti catholic as the next godless heathen, but that’s simply not the case.

Source: Me. Family member was a resident in the 80’s . Didn’t happen then. Friends work there now. Still doesn’t happen.

Amazingfun

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Hi,

Some people may not know this, but if you are a recovering alcoholic in Ireland, and you don't have private health-care, you have no residential rehabilitation treatment options, unless you are prepared to enter into a Catholic, religious institution, which will take just about anyone.

This institution, which I will not name, claims to not be denominational, but imposes fines on any person which does not attend Roman Catholic services such as Mass or its Rosary (these fines are deducted from social welfare payments).

I wasn't aware of this problem until i encountered this situation in my family, and most people probably don't know it either.

We all know that there is a serious problem of alcohol dependence in our society, but is this really the best that we can do? I'm not exaggerating here, and can explaine further if needed, but the institution in question is highly reminiscent to me of Magdalene Laundries. It is probably the biggest alcohol-treatment facility currently operating in Ireland.

Just be careful if this info is coming from an alkie, lol....my long experience with those trying to get out of the situation (and back to drink eventually, really) is to spin very tall delusional tales.

I too know many that have come through this place, and not a chance even one of them was forced to do anything of the sort claimed here or we'd never hear the end of it, haha.
Now, maybe there is a current employee a little over zealous ? But even then I would be very skeptical if I were you. Alcoholics are over all good people, but liars extraordinaire when it comes to drink.

Having said that, I am not a big fan of treatment centres tbh. For most, (not all, some absolutely need medical intervention to detox safely) a few days long detox via librium and then AA or whatever works just fine. Long extended stays away from reality seems to rob too many of that precious and sadly brief period of desperation that drives real change.

Good luck with the situation anyways, I feel for you. It ain't easy.

Foweva Awone

Coolmine. Costs no more than Cuan Mhuire, no religion, and WAY more effective. Have a look at their success rates on their annual reports on the website. Far better than any other addiction service in Ireland, public or private.

moceri

moceri wrote: »

There are several residential treatment centres. http://www.taborgroup.ie

How much do they cost per week/ month? Are they public/ affordable?

endacl wrote: »

Bollocks 2.

Deductions from SW can’t happen except at source by the dept, or as a result of a court order.

The Treatment Centre I'm referring to has a visit from an Official from the Department of Social Welfare every Wednesday. That official forwards all payments onto the Centre, for payment to residents. The Centre deducts costs, as well as fines for not attending Rosary, Mass, or Meditation.

The fact that you think this is bollocks suggests to me that you are not familiar with the Centre in question, and I am not going to identify it here.

Foweva Awone

Foweva Awone wrote: »

Coolmine.

Is that residential?

Amazingfun

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I am not going to identify it here.

Why not? If you have evidence this is fact

Foweva Awone

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Is that residential?

Yes. Five months residential with lifetime follow-up in the form of step-down (five days a week for two months, then Aftercare one evening a week, then the graduate group once a week for as long as you want to go to it. No other service has such comprehensive follow-up care (trust me, I've been through several.)

Amazingfun

Amazingfun wrote: »

Just be careful if this info is coming from an alkie, lol....my long experience with those trying to get out of the situation (and back to drink eventually, really) is to spin very tall delusional tales.

The person I'm referring to is now sober, after having come through a private facility, having left the 'charitable' facility in question.

They have no problem with the private facility, but they and many others left the 'charitable' facility due to the bizarre imposition of religious obligations, and an approach to rehabilitation that was based more on prayer than on science, or evidence.

Amazingfun

Amazingfun wrote: »

Why not? If you have evidence this is fact

Because although I know I have evidence, the people who publish this website do not. And they have a responsibility to not allow defamation of people or bodies corporate.

Amazingfun

Not that it matters but know of 3 coolimine grads who've relapsed.....all that time away and for what?

Glad it worked for you fOweva, but it sure didn't for them.

Amazingfun

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Because although I know I have evidence, the people who publish this website do not. And they have a responsibility to not allow defamation of people or bodies corporate.

Well, it seems this is a story just screaming for an Primetime investigation, no? You have proof? I am guessing many media outlets would be clamoring for it.
But on here, you really have none besides your accusation against a nameless place so it's a bit hard to discuss it .

Foweva Awone

Amazingfun wrote: »

Not that it matters but know of 3 coolimine grads who've relapsed.....all that time away and for what?

Glad it worked for you fOweva, but it sure didn't for them.

I consider statistics rather than anecdotal evidence, 72% of those who go through the program are clean and sober after 3 years (research done by Trinity College.) Your friends may be part if the 28%, but those stats are FAR better than you'll see elsewhere.

Foweva Awone

Foweva Awone wrote: »

Yes. Five months residential with lifetime follow-up in the form of step-down (five days a week for two months, then Aftercare one evening a week, then the graduate group once a week for as long as you want to go to it. No other service has such comprehensive follow-up care (trust me, I've been through several.)

And that's all available with a medical card?

Amazingfun

Did Trinity administer testing to verify claims of sobriety, lol? Otherwise, I'd be a bit skeptical of self reported recoveries.

Anyhow, all that matters is you got free, glad ya did

Foweva Awone

By the way it was 2016 I was in Cuan Mhuire, I never heard of social welfare being deducted but you'd absolutely be discharged if you didn't attend the daily mass, daily rosary, twice daily meditation etc. Obviously they can't make you believe, or even participate in the prayers, but attendance was absolutely mandatory. Even while detoxing (we had to go to mass in our pyjamas, occasionally someone would have a withdrawal fit in the mass hall!)

Amazingfun

Every one I am aware of that went to Cuan Mhuire paid through welfare deductions if they were on the dole.

Amazingfun

Amazingfun wrote: »

Well, it seems this is a story just screaming for an Primetime investigation, no? You have proof? I am guessing many media outlets would be clamoring for it.
But on here, you really have none besides your accusation against a nameless place so it's a bit hard to discuss it .

Tbh, half the reason I started this thread, was because I was wondering if it was just me who was shocked by it.

I'm not sure what proof you're expecting. Hundreds of people go through this centre every year. Maybe if you know any recovering alcoholics, you could ask around.

Foweva Awone

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

And that's all available with a medical card?

Yes - and even if you DON'T have a medical card, you're covered by their medical card when you're their to get any physical health issues sorted. Its very holistic - considers all issues of your life, ie medical, housing, mental health, family relationships etc. Does a serious amount of work with parenting skills and family reunification too. All part of relapse prevention and creating a life where it's easier not to use.

Foweva Awone

Amazingfun wrote: »

Did Trinity administer testing to verify claims of sobriety, lol? Otherwise, I'd be a bit skeptical of self reported recoveries.

Anyhow, all that matters is you got free, glad ya did

I'd imagine supervised urine testa, we do a lot of those!

Amazingfun

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Tbh, half the reason I started this thread, was because I was wondering if it was just me who was shocked by it.

I'm not sure what proof you're expecting. Hundreds of people go through this centre every year. Maybe if you know any recovering alcoholics, you could ask around.

I am in AA just under two decades, so yeah, I know quite a few.

The desperate situations and such that many exited in the wake of their alcoholism is far more shocking than your claims tbh. Most I know are grateful of their time there now, looking back. It helped save their lives.

Anyhow I feel I am derailing this thread somehow, so shall just wish you well.

Amazingfun

Amazingfun wrote: »

Did Trinity administer testing to verify claims of sobriety, lol? Otherwise, I'd be a bit skeptical of self reported recoveries.

Anyhow, all that matters is you got free, glad ya did

I don't understand your reference to Trinity.

This person takes a tablet every morning which makes her vomit if she consumes even a tiny amount of alcohol. And we watch her do so.

She is recovering after having attended a private institution. Not some cheap, evangelical 'cowboy shop' which tried to pray the addiction away, and which may even be supported by the taxpayer.

Amazingfun

Amazingfun wrote: »

I am in AA just under two decades, so yeah, I know quite a few.

The desperate situations and such that many exited in the wake of their alcoholism is far more shocking than your claims tbh.

Yeah, that's fair.

But just because they had hard lives when they were in the throes of addiction, doesn't mean they deserve low standards in recovery.

Amazingfun

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I don't understand your reference to Trinity.

This person takes a tablet every morning which makes her vomit if she consumes even a tiny amount of alcohol. And we watch her do so.

She is recovering after having attended a private institution. Not some cheap, evangelical 'cowboy shop' which tried to pray the addiction away, and which may even be supported by the taxpayer.

Reread the thread, a claim citing Trinity was made and I was responding to it.

As for taking antibuse "while you watch" sounds miserable. In my experience this kind of policing an alcoholic won't last. Most of us detest that kind of thing.

Also, what do mass and the rosary have to do with Evangelicals, lol?

Amazingfun

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Yeah, that's fair.

But just because they had hard lives when they were in the throes of addiction, doesn't mean they deserve low standards in recovery.

Maybe what you consider a low standard doesn't apply across the board. Still, if there is any kind of fraud or abuse taking place I hope you take action offline.

Amazingfun

Amazingfun wrote: »

Reread the thread, a claim citing Trinity was made and I was responding to it.

As for taking antibuse "while you watch" sounds miserable. In my experience this kind of policing an alcoholic won't last. Most of us detest that kind of thing.

We know babysitting won't be a cure, but it's a temporary stop-gap to rebuild trust. We have a time limit on this, as agreed with a counsellor.

Also, what do mass and the rosary have to do with Evangelicals, lol?

I'm not a catholic, I'm not fully up on the lingo - but I think forcing someone to attend a rosary prayer or else face a deduction in social welfare income sounds pretty 'evangelical'.

Ruraldweller56

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

We know babysitting won't be a cure, but it's a temporary stop-gap to rebuild trust. We have a time limit on this, as agreed with a counsellor.
I'm not a catholic, I'm not fully up on the lingo - but I think forcing someone to attend a rosary prayer or else face a deduction in social welfare income sounds pretty 'evangelical'.

It doesn't in fairness

Amazingfun

I really wish you well and hope you and your loved one find the good life again. It's an awful illness, some of our friends found Alanon helpful as well, just an FYI. I'll keep your situation in my prayers (no troll).

Ruraldweller56

Ruraldweller56 wrote: »

It doesn't in fairness

Fair enough.

Next time your GP, physio, or radiographer demands that you may be cured by the help of the Rosary Prayer, come back and tell me they're not evangelicals.

Ruraldweller56

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Fair enough.

Next time your GP, physio, or radiographer demands that you may be cured by the help of the Rosary Prayer, come back and tell me they're not evangelicals.

a) I happen to like my prayers.
b) if that were to happen, evangelical would not be the word I'd be using

Ruraldweller56

Ruraldweller56 wrote: »

a) I happen to like my prayers.
b) if that were to happen, evangelical would not be the word I'd be using

OK let's not get hung up on the semantics, my point was that the institution takes the approach that you can 'pray the alcoholism away' with Rosaries and by doing things like outdoor work on its Farm or gardens. That's why I mentioned Magdalene Laundries earlier.

There is no individual therapy, from what I'm told. This isn't science, it does sound like an evangelical christian approach to overcoming addiction, but obviously you disagree.

My concern is the sheer popularity of this place (because it's cheap) and how poorer addicts, who can't afford health insurance, have to rely on it.