Fluence EV

stesaurus

So tell me I'm wrong here. My Dad needs a newer car. Just a cheap, reliable runabout. He does less than 3000km a year and never really further than 20km at a time.
I'm thinking of a Fluence brought in from the UK. I'd pay for it to be transported.
Here's the catch. Battery rental wouldn't make sense so I'd be ripping out the SIM/TCU and taking my chances. I wouldn't be signing up to any agreement with RCI so I'm not breaking a contract either.
Price £2-3k for a 2012/13, no VRT either.
Any issues and I wouldn't be anywhere near a Renault dealer. I'd be looking at independents or electrical engineers haha.
Am I mad???

Alkers

No fast charging either iirc so completely not suitable for anything other than short trips.
Haven't heard any realistic estimates of range, (possibly even less then 80km) and in the cold.weather could be very restricted

Gumbo

Full charge on our fleet ones yesterday was 57km.
No fast charging.
We bought 2 of them for 2k 18 months ago.
You should get one cheap enough without battery rental I would have thought.

EPAndlee

Last one we had in the workshop was about 5 years ago. Had a range of about 85kms, I suppose they would suit someone doing very little mileage

KCross

stesaurus wrote: »

Any issues and I wouldn't be anywhere near a Renault dealer. I'd be looking at independents or electrical engineers haha.
Am I mad???

Have you checked their reliability?
Any "known issues" that require a main dealer or are they rock solid from a reliability perspective?

If anything major goes wrong it could basically be a write off as it would be uneconomical to repair.


Other than that seems reasonable based on what you've described.

unkel

stesaurus wrote: »

I wouldn't be signing up to any agreement with RCI so I'm not breaking a contract either.

That's the problem right there. The current owner can not contractually sell it to you, unless you sign the new battery rental lease.

So, the only options here are to sign the lease, bring it in and not pay it and see what happens (I'm not advocating this) or to buy out the lease from Renault finance (some people have reported success with this, but the only evidence of this is sparse and only anecdotal)

ELM327

Report on the Irish EV Owners page on facebook the other day of someone facing a €5k out of warranty repair bill from Renault.

Alkers

kceire wrote:

Full charge on our fleet ones yesterday was 57km. No fast charging. We bought 2 of them for 2k 18 months ago. You should get one cheap enough without battery rental I would have thought.

At that price it would surely make sense, where did they pick them up?
How does the range last in bad traffic with the heater on for example?

unkel

How / where did you pick them up without having to sign a lease / pay rental, kceire? I know it was your employer who bought them. Dublin city council? Guy who has a Kangoo ZE MaxiVan for sale on adverts also claimed he bought it directly from DCC (no lease)

At about €2k these can be very useful second family cars / city cars. I was looking into them myself about 4 years ago, I started a dedicated thread on this forum about it, if anyone can find it

ELM327

unkel wrote: »

How / where did you pick them up without having to sign a lease / pay rental, kceire? I know it was your employer who bought them. Dublin city council? Guy who has a Kangoo ZE MaxiVan for sale on adverts also claimed he bought it directly from DCC (no lease)

At about €2k these can be very useful second family cars / city cars. I was looking into them myself about 4 years ago, I started a dedicated thread on this forum about it, if anyone can find it

There were ways and means towards the end of the fluence's life being sold by renault for €5-7k from main dealers without battery lease as they coudlnt get rid of them.

stesaurus

kceire wrote: »

Full charge on our fleet ones yesterday was 57km.
No fast charging.
We bought 2 of them for 2k 18 months ago.
You should get one cheap enough without battery rental I would have thought.

Was that battery owned? Great deal either way. Where from?

KCross wrote: »

Have you checked their reliability?
Any "known issues" that require a main dealer or are they rock solid from a reliability perspective?

If anything major goes wrong it could basically be a write off as it would be uneconomical to repair.


Other than that seems reasonable based on what you've described.

Any car at that price point is a risk but they seem ok from reading forums.

unkel wrote: »

That's the problem right there. The current owner can not contractually sell it to you, unless you sign the new battery rental lease.

So, the only options here are to sign the lease, bring it in and not pay it and see what happens (I'm not advocating this) or to buy out the lease from Renault finance (some people have reported success with this, but the only evidence of this is sparse and only anecdotal)

I've only ever heard anecdotal so would rather avoid. If I buy the car via eBay or similar then I then own the car sans battery. Then send a transporter to collect so they won't be signing anything on my behalf.
There might be some trouble but I'd be confident it would not be possible to negatively impact the previous owner.

ELM327 wrote: »

Report on the Irish EV Owners page on facebook the other day of someone facing a €5k out of warranty repair bill from Renault.

Renault dealer price, i wouldn't be darkening their doorstep. I'd be looking at Indo's and people looking to get into EV repair. Could be a great business in a few years.

unkel

stesaurus wrote: »

If I buy the car via eBay or similar then I then own the car sans battery. Then send a transporter to collect so they won't be signing anything on my behalf.
There might be some trouble but I'd be confident it would not be possible to negatively impact the previous owner.

I think you're wrong on the last part, and that would bugger me. The previous owner is responsible for the lease until someone else takes over. If you take possession of the car, but don't sign a battery lease contract, the previous owner is still under contract and will be made to pay the lease (in perpetuum)

stesaurus

unkel wrote: »

I think you're wrong on the last part, and that would bugger me. The previous owner is responsible for the lease until someone else takes over. If you take possession of the car, but don't sign a battery lease contract, the previous owner is still under contract and will be made to pay the lease (in perpetuum)

There's no way they can legally enforce that. Thye might state that in their T&Cs but a letter from a solicitor would end that sharpish along with proof of sale. It would then be up to RCI to chase me for 'their' battery. Hence why I'd be pulling the TCU or SIM from the car to prevent a remote disabling.
Could be interesting

unkel

Interesting indeed on our end, I'd say there's no way they can get money off you, force to sign a lease, force you to hand over the battery (:D) or disable the car. Or do anything really

I wouldn't feel too happy / confident about the other end though.

slave1

If the scenario is a low value car paid with cash anyone could sign Michael Murphy on any lease form and just walk once the SIM piece is taken care of, how in God's name would they be able to trace?

stesaurus

I love an interesting legal debate challenge. I'm still refusing to pay for BMW's excess mileage claim on my old i3 so this is right up my alley

Absolute worst case I'd pay the lease for him or keep an eye on breakers etc. and swap it out. There's probably less than 100 in the whole of UK/I still running

unkel

stesaurus wrote: »

Absolute worst case I'd pay the lease for him

Aye, but that is really a bad case. Might be better off just getting a €6k Leaf. More useful, better range, can fast charge, more reliable, will keep its value better.

But like yourself, I'm still intrigued in getting a really cheap EV as a second car. Really, really cheap

stesaurus

unkel wrote: »

Aye, but that is really a bad case. Might be better off just getting a €6k Leaf. More useful, better range, can fast charge, more reliable, will keep its value better.

But like yourself, I'm still intrigued in getting a really cheap EV as a second car. Really, really cheap

€6k battery owned seem to have dried up and he'd never use a FCP. Plus they look like a Leaf
I could see myself keeping the car and tinkering with it, installing a Zoe charger, getting the battery repaired etc and keeping it to transport the dogs around. He can stick with his Octavia:cool:

unkel

Kangoo MaxiVan ZE for €4k on adverts.ie

Can't fast charge, but battery owned...

Markcheese

unkel wrote: »

Kangoo MaxiVan ZE for €4k on adverts.ie

Can't fast charge, but battery owned...

What'd be the legalities of converting something like that to a crew cab/car... (sticking windows,, seats and seat belts in)

Mike9832

KCross wrote: »

Have you checked their reliability?
Any "known issues" that require a main dealer or are they rock solid from a reliability perspective?

If anything major goes wrong it could basically be a write off as it would be uneconomical to repair.


Other than that seems reasonable based on what you've described.

I thought nothing could wrong with EV's?

Don't even need servicing

unkel

Mike9832 wrote: »

I thought nothing could wrong with EV's?

Don't take that out of context. We were discussing the Leaf at the time that was mentioned. Not a Renault Fluence ZE, Zoe or indeed a Kangoo ZE

KCross

Mike9832 wrote: »

I thought nothing could wrong with EV's?

Don't even need servicing

I know nothing about the Fluence. Its an early Gen EV that is no longer made and might have issues, knowing Renault. Could be even something unrelated to the drivetrain like suspension or heaters etc

I'm just suggesting he do some due diligence on it before buying.

Every car has some "known issue" that should be looked at before you hand over money.


Although I'd say you are more of a tyre kicker so you probably dont look at things like that!

Mike9832

unkel wrote: »

Don't take that out of context. We were discussing the Leaf at the time that was mentioned. Not a Renault Fluence ZE, Zoe or indeed a Kangoo ZE

Was just joking