Dog attacked by other dog - liability?

Blizzard

My small dog was seriously injured by another large dog to the tune of €1200 (and mounting slowly) in vet bills. Owner of the other dog has not offered to pay and has no pet or home insurance. My pet insurance will only pay part as my dog is over 8 years (typical with most pet policies). My portion is over €510 or so now; other dog owner vaguely mentioned once they'd 'contribute' what they could but gave me a sad story about their circumstances. My friends all say other dog owner is liable. What should I do; who pays?

After researching online I found this:

The law in Ireland concerning dog bite injury compensation is governed by Section 21 of the Control of Dogs Act 1986. The Act is perhaps primarily concerned with the security of livestock; however its provisions do indeed provide protection to people as well. In short, a dog owner is strictly liable for injuries caused by his or her dog as a result of an attack by it.

“21. —(1) The owner of a dog shall be liable in damages for damage caused in an attack on any person by the dog and for injury done by it to any livestock; and it shall not be necessary for the person seeking such damages to show a previous mischievous propensity in the dog, or the owner’s knowledge of such previous propensity, or to show that such injury or damage was attributable to neglect on the part of the owner.”

According to the law, a dog is technically one's property. I need to go back to this owner today as vet office needs an update on payment by tomorrow. Should I tell owner they are liable?

nuac

Mod
Open for general discussion subject to rule on legal advice
Title amended for clarity

Were either or both dogs on or off leads?

Blizzard

This happened in the other dog owner's house, minding my dog (being paid for this). Other dog owner's dog bit my dog and owner had to take my dog to vet very late at night as it was serious. The other dog owner is in the pet business and has show dogs so I was shocked to find that they don't have pet insurance as their 3rd party liability would have kicked in and sorted this mess.

Steve

Under the interpretations:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1986/act/32/section/1/enacted/en/html#sec1

“livestock” means cattle, sheep, swine, horses and all other equine animals, poultry, goats and deer not in the wild state;"

It seems dogs are not considered 'livestock' so therefore (IMO) not covered by the act in this circumstance.

It's their business & they don't have insurance?
I would think they are responsible for the care of your dog while they are being paid to look after him.

ohnonotgmail

Blizzard wrote: »

My small dog was seriously injured by another large dog to the tune of €1200 (and mounting slowly) in vet bills. Owner of the other dog has not offered to pay and has no pet or home insurance. My pet insurance will only pay part as my dog is over 8 years (typical with most pet policies). My portion is over €510 or so now; other dog owner vaguely mentioned once they'd 'contribute' what they could but gave me a sad story about their circumstances. My friends all say other dog owner is liable. What should I do; who pays?

After researching online I found this:

The law in Ireland concerning dog bite injury compensation is governed by Section 21 of the Control of Dogs Act 1986. The Act is perhaps primarily concerned with the security of livestock; however its provisions do indeed provide protection to people as well. In short, a dog owner is strictly liable for injuries caused by his or her dog as a result of an attack by it.

“21. —(1) The owner of a dog shall be liable in damages for damage caused in an attack on any person by the dog and for injury done by it to any livestock; and it shall not be necessary for the person seeking such damages to show a previous mischievous propensity in the dog, or the owner’s knowledge of such previous propensity, or to show that such injury or damage was attributable to neglect on the part of the owner.”

According to the law, a dog is technically one's property. I need to go back to this owner today as vet office needs an update on payment by tomorrow. Should I tell owner they are liable?

Irrespective of whether the other owner is found liable or not you cannot tell your vet to get the money from the other owner. You pay your vet and then try to get the money back from the other owner.

Steve

Blizzard wrote: »

This happened in the other dog owner's house, minding my dog (being paid for this). Other dog owner's dog bit my dog and owner had to take my dog to vet very late at night as it was serious. The other dog owner is in the pet business and has show dogs so I was shocked to find that they don't have pet insurance as their 3rd party liability would have kicked in and sorted this mess.

Maybe look at it from contract law perspective?

Was there a signed or verbal contract that included a duty of care?

Wabbit Ears

The person who engaged the vets services should be the person who pays them. Since vets work on a per-session payment scheme it looks like the other person is liable to pay for the first visit and the ongoing ones you pay for as you engaged the vets services.

So pay the Vet promptly and seek reimbursement and costs from the other person. Ask them to pay the full amount and if they don't, next step is solicitors letter and possibly court.

Blizzard

There is no contract, she did this out of her house (similar to babysitting) and charges for her service. I have many text messages over the last two years indicating this was a regular thing. I was told that dogs are considered property; so it was damage done to property.

After discussing with a number of friends, we're all of the opinion that if your dog does damage, as owner you are responsible. One friend put it simply, if your kid kicked a ball through a window in your house or damaged your car while it was parked outside your house, you (as the parent) are liable; we can't see why this would be any different.

I wouldn't expect payment to the vet directly due to data protection, etc. but I would supply invoice and request payment of same.

Btw, thank you to all for comments/advice so far, much appreciated.

Blizzard

Wabbit Ears wrote: »

The person who engaged the vets services should be the person who pays them. Since vets work on a per-session payment scheme it looks like the other person is liable to pay for the first visit and the ongoing ones you pay for as you engaged the vets services.

So pay the Vet promptly and seek reimbursement and costs from the other person. Ask them to pay the full amount and if they don't, next step is solicitors letter and possibly court.

Thanks, I believe this is what we will do.

Edgware

Blizzard wrote: »

This happened in the other dog owner's house, minding my dog (being paid for this). Other dog owner's dog bit my dog and owner had to take my dog to vet very late at night as it was serious. The other dog owner is in the pet business and has show dogs so I was shocked to find that they don't have pet insurance as their 3rd party liability would have kicked in and sorted this mess.

Maybe it was doggy foreplay between two consenting dogs

Steve

Blizzard wrote: »

There is no contract,

Don't be so sure of this. A contract is not necessarily a written document, it can be verbal. It is consummated when money is paid - in this case - for a service - to 'mind' your dog.

At this point, I would suggest engaging a legal professional to look at the fine details - you probably would have a case in small claims.

Blizzard

Edgware wrote: »

Maybe it was doggy foreplay between two consenting dogs

Don't think so as our poor lil dog ended up with multiple broken ribs, flail chest, bruised organs and now has subcutaneous emphysema (trapped air under skin due to blunt force trauma). :eek: Going to be several weeks before she's feeling better, if at all.

Blizzard

Steve wrote: »

Don't be so sure of this. A contract is not necessarily a written document, it can be verbal. It is consummated when money is paid - in this case - for a service - to 'mind' your dog.

At this point, I would suggest engaging a legal professional to look at the fine details - you probably would have a case in small claims.

Thanks. I checked it out with small claims earlier today and they said it would be a civil case. Something to consider as I feel strongly about this; I'm certain if it was the other way around we would have offered to cover fees immediately. Another reason we chose to have a small dog.

redbel05

The Animal Health and Welfare Act 2013 applies not only to animal owners, but also to anyone who have animals under their control.

Part 3: 11.—(1) A person who has a protected animal in his or her possession or under his or her control shall, having regard to the animal’s nature, type, species, breed, development, adaptation, domestication, physiological and behavioural needs and environment, and in accordance with established experience and scientific knowledge, take all necessary steps to ensure that—

(a) the animal is kept and treated in a manner that—

(i) safeguards the health and welfare of the animal, and

(ii) does not threaten the health or welfare of the animal or another animal"

She had a duty of care to your dog which she failed in. The least she could do is pay for the vet bill.

Steve

Blizzard wrote: »

Thanks. I checked it out with small claims earlier today and they said it would be a civil case. Something to consider as I feel strongly about this; I'm certain if it was the other way around we would have offered to cover fees immediately. Another reason we chose to have a small dog.

Do 'they' do this as a business? do 'they' have other clients? if so then it it should certainly fall under the remit of small claims.

If it was a case of a 'friend' doing you a favour (albiet for payment) then it could be a civil matter and a bit more difficult to figure out what applies.

Captain Flaps

Did you engage this person privately or through a service like Pawshake or Housemydog? If the latter check their terms and conditions, they might have something to say about the situation.

Blizzard

Steve wrote: »

Do 'they' do this as a business? do 'they' have other clients? if so then it it should certainly fall under the remit of small claims.

If it was a case of a 'friend' doing you a favour (albiet for payment) then it could be a civil matter and a bit more difficult to figure out what applies.

They don't do this as a business but I do know other people leave their dogs with them. I referred a friend to them a few years back and there was another dog (not their own) in the house when I dropped my dog off the last time. While I know the dog's owner for probably six years or so, the only contact is when getting dog minded.

Blizzard

No - met dog owner through another local pet business that they were working in so there are no terms and conditions. I figured common sense would kick in and they'd do the right thing (ie, pay vet bill without me asking).

Mooooo

Of they are running a business from the home, mention that if they are not forthcoming revenue may be contacted, also their home insurance provider either may have cover for the damage their dog did as it was on the property and if they don't wouldn't be too keen on a business being run from the property if not insured correctly. They would be last resorts

Peregrinus

From what you say, there was a contract, under which she would care for your dog for an agreed period, in return for which you would pay her. The contract wasn't in writing or signed, but it doesn't have to be.

It seems to me that you have a very strong case against her, both because she had a contractual obligation to care for your dog and because it was her dog who inflicted the injuries.

As others have said, this is a matter between you and her; the vet is not involved. You engage the vet to provide care for your dog; you pay the vet (whatever your insurance doesn't pay directly). You then chase her for the money that she owes you. You are entitled to chase her for the full amount of the vets' bills, not just the excess that the insurance didn't cover. If you recover it, you repay the insurance company for whatever they laid out.