Kerosene replacement boiler?

Xcellor

I have a boiler firebird not sure what model but it's 13 odd years now. I know it's on borrowed time at this point. Any recommendations? I'm not looking to spend a tonne but would like something that would be as plug and play as possible. The existing is in the garden so external options are the plan.

Cheers

Wearb

15 years isn’t old for a well maintained oil boiler.

Most here will recommend a grant vortex, but a well serviced Firebird should also be considered.

None are plug and play and all need to be commissioned and serviced annually.

Xcellor

Wearb wrote: »

15 years isn’t old for a well maintained oil boiler.

Most here will recommend a grant vortex, but a well serviced Firebird should also be considered.

None are plug and play and all need to be commissioned and serviced annually.

Well it's been serviced but not annually and it's broken down a few times the burner packed up and needed changed and a reconditioned one which doesn't really fit it was put back on... The fan has a bearing that is on its way out the last fella to service said it would be better to spend money on a new unit as the new ones are much more efficient..

Wearb

Xcellor wrote: »

Well it's been serviced but not annually and it's broken down a few times the burner packed up and needed changed and a reconditioned one which doesn't really fit it was put back on... The fan has a bearing that is on its way out the last fella to service said it would be better to spend money on a new unit as the new ones are much more efficient..

If you want more comment on your existing one, perhaps post a pic, make and model and an image of the printout from the last service.



The difference between efficiency and cost of a new unit rarely justify the replacement cost unless the old boiler is really on the way out.

Xcellor

Wearb wrote: »

If you want more comment on your existing one, perhaps post a pic, make and model and an image of the printout from the last service.



The difference between efficiency and cost of a new unit rarely justify the replacement cost unless the old boiler is really on the way out.

I don't know what I did with the readout.

I guess when the last service was done he said that the bearing could go at any time and to fix it would be like 400 odd and a new boiler is 1200 mark and then when the next part goes...

The new boilers do seem to be build better I would have thought they were much more efficient?

Wearb

Xcellor wrote: »

I don't know what I did with the readout.

I guess when the last service was done he said that the bearing could go at any time and to fix it would be like 400 odd and a new boiler is 1200 mark and then when the next part goes...

The new boilers do seem to be build better I would have thought they were much more efficient?

They are more efficient, but you will be many years getting a return on the cost.
They are for the most part lest robust than the older boilers and will not tolerate neglect.

pixbyjohn

A new burner unit for your boiler costs just under €300 from Chadwicks or other suppliers. Not rocket science to fit.

EdgeCase

Those old oil burners are absolutely bullet proof. I've seen Bentone burners from the 1970s that are still functioning perfectly today.
Everything in them can be replaced and repaired

Xcellor

Thanks for info... I guess things aren't as terminal as suggested.

Yeah I watched him service the unit last time and it seemed quite straight forward removing the burner and then accessing the plates and then changing the little pin hole valve for spraying the kerosene (it seemed easier than servicing my car which I've done in the past)

Is the burner and whirring thing beside it the same unit? The boiler itself is performing well and rads are always piping but its the fan thing that when it turns on is noisier than I think it should be. Saying that it's probably a year or so since it was last serviced and it's still going...

The service fella had changed the circulating pump at the rear of the unit (beneath the flue), Looked like there was a leak that had shorted it out so this cost a bit of cash so I suppose he wasn't wanting to take me for more money.

Sounds like there is life in the old bird still! I'm planning an extension + since there will be ground work over where the pipe is entering I am thinking it might be worth insulating the pipe, the boiler is a distance from the house and the melting frost+snow shoes quite a bit of heat is being lost... I think its just 110M pipe running hot and returning water, could pack it with something?

Wearb

pixbyjohn wrote: »

A new burner unit for your boiler costs just under €300 from Chadwicks or other suppliers. Not rocket science to fit.

Not rocket science, but should never be fitted with being setup properly. Leaving them at factory settings will always be wrong and could even be dangerous, leaving aside the inefficiency and boiler damage.

monseiur

Xcellor wrote: »

I don't know what I did with the readout.

I guess when the last service was done he said that the bearing could go at any time and to fix it would be like 400 odd and a new boiler is 1200 mark and then when the next part goes...

The new boilers do seem to be build better I would have thought they were much more efficient?

You should get a second opinion before replacing your whole boiler. Charging €400 for a few parts is total rip off.
I would hazard a guess that your burner is a Riello 40 G3B or similar - new one would cost €300 approx. + fitting. Insure that your service guy gives the boiler a thorough clean before fitting new burner and it should, with regular service, last another 15 to 20 years. Consider changing the oil filter at tank too.
M.

SoupyNorman

EdgeCase wrote: »

Those old oil burners are absolutely bullet proof. I've seen Bentone burners from the 1970s that are still functioning perfectly today.
Everything in them can be replaced and repaired

Yes but is there not an argument for the boost in efficiency from a condensing boiler. I read my old Firebird is somewhere around 70% efficient whereas a grant vortex will be about 90%?

Quite a difference.

I'm in a similar position as OP, have a Firebird that seems to have issues every year (currently not working correctly). Choice is either keep fixing it or upgrade.

Wearb

SoupyNorman wrote: »

Yes but is there not an argument for the boost in efficiency from a condensing boiler. I read my old Firebird is somewhere around 70% efficient whereas a grant vortex will be about 90%?

Quite a difference.

I'm in a similar position as OP, have a Firebird that seems to have issues every year (currently not working correctly). Choice is either keep fixing it or upgrade.

It would need to be a very old and neglected boiler to be as poor as 70%. Even if there was a 20% difference, that would be about E200/250 PA saving.

For the average user, there is about a 10 to 15 year return on investment on a new HE boiler. Badly maintained boilers are going to be different, whether new or old.

SoupyNorman

Wearb wrote: »

It would need to be a very old and neglected boiler to be as poor as 70%. Even if there was a 20% difference, that would be about E200/250 PA saving.

For the average user, there is about a 10 to 15 year return on investment on a new HE boiler. Badly maintained boilers are going to be different, whether new or old.

I get what you're saying but also factor in the cost of yearly service and/or parts for running the old Firebird versus upgrading. I'm not rushing out to upgrade today but would like to factor it in over the next few years.

agusta

SoupyNorman wrote: »

I get what you're saying but also factor in the cost of yearly service and/or parts for running the old Firebird versus upgrading. I'm not rushing out to upgrade today but would like to factor it in over the next few years.

A he boiler has to be serviced every year.i have customers that are saving 500euro per year after upgrading.it depends on the volume of oil used
The old firebirds boiler may not be the most efficient boiler but fairly bulletproof working wise.what parts are being changed every year?

monseiur

Xcellor wrote: »

I have a boiler firebird not sure what model but it's 13 odd years now. I know it's on borrowed time at this point. Any recommendations? I'm not looking to spend a tonne but would like something that would be as plug and play as possible. The existing is in the garden so external options are the plan.

Cheers

Would you scrap an otherwise good car because it needed 4 new tyres and buy a new one ?
Basically you boiler has two distinct parts
1. The boiler itself i.e. the cast iron block through which the water flows, it has no moving mechanical parts and unless it's cracked/leaking etc. it's OK
2. The burner, this is all mechanical & electrical and is subject to wear & tear. Over the years you may have to replace some parts, which are reasonably priced and mostly available off the shelf. But eventually after 15 to 20 years you will haveto replace it - total cost fitted etc. should be no more than €400.00 and you're good for another 15 years or more.

Bear in mind that if you fit a complete new unit it too has to be serviced regularly and the burner will have the same life span as the replacement burner in you existing boiler.
The new boiler may well be a little more economical etc. but it will take at least 15 years to pay back the lump sum that you will have to pay up front to have it supplied & fitted.
To return to the car analogy - if your perfectly good, paid for, car was doing say 30 mpg would you trade it in for a say €35,000 car just because the new model would do 55 mpg !
So this is a very long winded way of recommending to keep your boiler & give it a good clean out, fit a new burner, check and upgrade the housing /insulation if necessary and don't listen to certain plumbers who are out to create work for themselves - not saying that they're all like that !
M.

Xcellor

monseiur wrote: »

Would you scrap an otherwise good car because it needed 4 new tyres and buy a new one ?
Basically you boiler has two distinct parts
1. The boiler itself i.e. the cast iron block through which the water flows, it has no moving mechanical parts and unless it's cracked/leaking etc. it's OK
2. The burner, this is all mechanical & electrical and is subject to wear & tear. Over the years you may have to replace some parts, which are reasonably priced and mostly available off the shelf. But eventually after 15 to 20 years you will haveto replace it - total cost fitted etc. should be no more than €400.00 and you're good for another 15 years or more.

Bear in mind that if you fit a complete new unit it too has to be serviced regularly and the burner will have the same life span as the replacement burner in you existing boiler.
The new boiler may well be a little more economical etc. but it will take at least 15 years to pay back the lump sum that you will have to pay up front to have it supplied & fitted.
To return to the car analogy - if your perfectly good, paid for, car was doing say 30 mpg would you trade it in for a say €35,000 car just because the new model would do 55 mpg !
So this is a very long winded way of recommending to keep your boiler & give it a good clean out, fit a new burner, check and upgrade the housing /insulation if necessary and don't listen to certain plumbers who are out to create work for themselves - not saying that they're all like that !
M.

Thanks for this. I get what you are saying.

If it lasts till summer ill take apart and clean out etc and inspect for leaks etc!

agusta

Xcellor wrote: »

Thanks for this. I get what you are saying.

If it lasts till summer ill take apart and clean out etc and inspect for leaks etc!

How much a year do you spend on oil...,A new grant vortex will use 20 percent less oil in my opinion.i certainly do the figures first before considering fitting a new burner for 400

JamesM

Xcellor wrote: »

Sounds like there is life in the old bird still! I'm planning an extension + since there will be ground work over where the pipe is entering I am thinking it might be worth insulating the pipe, the boiler is a distance from the house and the melting frost+snow shoes quite a bit of heat is being lost... I think its just 110M pipe running hot and returning water, could pack it with something?

What's a 110M pipe ? If it is any distance from the house, and is melting frost and snow, it is costing you. A Grant Vortex in a cabin pack up against the house could give you great saving.

agusta

JamesM wrote: »

What's a 110M pipe ? If it is any distance from the house, and is melting frost and snow, it is costing you. A Grant Vortex in a cabin pack up against the house could give you great saving.

Oh ,i didnt see that,your 100 percent correct.il change my figure to 30 percent saving p.a