Drone photos and video used without my permission.

James74

Just asking if there is anything I can or should be doing to get paid for my images. If this is inappropriate here or should be elsewhere then mods feel free to move or delete.

I work for a construction subcontractor, a smallish family firm. We use a drone on site (I have UK CAA PfCO and insurance, this is in Derry. I have permission from the site architect to use the drone). Drone footage is for our own site surveys, materials for work-in-progress meetings and our own publicity stuff.

The main contractor asked to see some of my footage so I gave him a USB key with copies as a demo only. I got nothing in writing, it was just a spur of the moment verbal thing. That was last August.

I happened to notice this week that the main contractors has been using my footage for social media advertising of the site and to sell the houses. I still have the original files, dji flight log and the flight plan from dronedeploy software that I using to do the survey work at the time.

Ideally I'd like to get paid for my work. Anybody think this is possible now? I assume if talk to them they'll just take the footage down, but they've been using it for six months so I'm feeling a bit stitched up.

Thanks all.

3DataModem

Your post isn't clear, but if you were employed by the contractor at the time, then perhaps he sees the footage as his, not yours.

In the same way that if I took video footage at work for use in my work, it would not be mine.

James74

There is nothing relating to photography or video in the contracts at. It's a building site so that's probably not a surprise. I was employed by the sub contractor. The sub contractor was onsite to do groundworks. I suppose there's nothing to say they owned the images, but nothing to say they didn't either. The main site architect that gave me permission to fly does not work for the main contractor either.

I hate to put it down to a learning experience, the site has 82 houses so it's not a small job, but I'm going to make damn sure I control what my work is used for in the future.

brianblaze

Get in touch with the company and see what the story is. They may think because they have the files they can use them, but without a contract I'm not sure what you can do! If you're a member of the IPPVA give them a bell and see what they suggest

Reati

The drone aspect of this is not really relevant to be honest. You were hired to do a job and you either have a contract that entails what you were deliver as part of the job or don't. If you do, and the photos/video are not a part of the deal, I'd be in contact with the contractor to seek a removal of your materials or payment for their continued use. He is taking advantage of your work. Did you not ask him why or what he wanted the footage for? The lesson to learn here is Words mean nothing. If it's not in writing, it never happened.

James74

Thanks. I'm not in the IPPVA, I'm more a builder that does some drone surveying.

My next stop will either be the company directly, but my concern would be that they'll just remove the pics and video footage now that they've had six months use of them.

I'm considering a solicitor but seems like a lot of hassle, plus I haven't the slightest idea what the footage is worth anyway. Do you think it would be worth chasing?

James74

Agreed Reati, lesson learned. And you'd think I should be old enough already to know that if it's not written down it didn't happen.

Reati

James74 wrote: »

Thanks. I'm not in the IPPVA, I'm more a builder that does some drone surveying.

My next stop will either be the company directly, but my concern would be that they'll just remove the pics and video footage now that they've had six months use of them.

I'm considering a solicitor but seems like a lot of hassle, plus I haven't the slightest idea what the footage is worth anyway. Do you think it would be worth chasing?

On principle of course, but if the contractor is big enough or connected enough to make getting future jobs hard, then no. You said yourself it's a small business you are involved with. Word travels the trade world way too easy unfortunately.

Best bet, is as you say, to start the conversation about how the footage was not meant for use and ask to be removed. If they want to keep it, then ask for payment.

James74

Reati, it was the site foreman who asked to see the photos, he just wanted to see them. He's well down the company food chain so assume he just passed them on to somebody in their office that deals with their marketing.

I'll know for again.

Reati

James74 wrote: »

Reati, it was the site foreman who asked to see the photos, he just wanted to see them. He's well down the company food chain so assume he just passed them on to somebody in their office that deals with their marketing.

I'll know for again.

Ah I see. Yeah, I have had my stuff "borrowed" a number of times from websites, youtube etc so I don't trust anyone who asked "can I have a look" lol Even had people recreate shot for shot some of my stuff!

Hope ya get sorted. Nothing as cheap shot as this in my opinion.

brianblaze

I'd get in touch either way, be nice about it and say that you don't need them taken down but that it's time/ work editing etc you're not paid for at the end of the day. If done the right way you might get more work out fo t, or some kind of pay

Reati

brianblaze wrote: »

I'd get in touch either way, be nice about it and say that you don't need them taken down but that it's time/ work editing etc you're not paid for at the end of the day. If done the right way you might get more work out fo t, or some kind of pay

Oh yeah, totally agree with this post btw. Don't go at it like a bull

James74

brianblaze wrote: »

I'd get in touch either way, be nice about it and say that you don't need them taken down but that it's time/ work editing etc you're not paid for at the end of the day. If done the right way you might get more work out fo t, or some kind of pay

Aye. That's what I'll do. I'll update yous if I make any progress.

brianblaze

James74 wrote: »

Aye. That's what I'll do. I'll update yous if I make any progress.

You could always visit their office with a mini digger

James74

At the risk of going off on a tangent, you wouldn't believe how often large contractors or employers screw the small firms in this industry. Almost everybody has their didn't-get-paid-for-that-job story.

Had complete sympathy for that poor mad eejit 😎

Bluefoam

James74 wrote: »

At the risk of going off on a tangent, you wouldn't believe how often large contractors or employers screw the small firms in this industry. Almost everybody has their didn't-get-paid-for-that-job story.

Had complete sympathy for that poor mad eejit ��

I work in the construction industry too... we edit, add company branding etc. and upload our drone footage to Vimeo...

If anyone wants it they can use the link. It will be clear that it's ours... we have no problem with our clients sharing it, whats good for the goose is good for the gander...

Use this as a learing experience & if you find demand for it, add a fee for it in future.

brightspark

https://www.digitalrights.ie/photographers-rights/

Ownership of Photographs?

If A takes a photograph of B, who owns the copyright in that photograph? As a general rule, the photographer owns the copyright. This is true even if B has commissioned and paid for the photograph – as in the case of wedding photographs. If B wishes to enjoy the copyright, he must agree with A that the copyright will be transferred to him. B should make sure that the agreement and any transfer are in writing – or they may be ineffective under Irish law to transfer the copyright.

The main exception to this principle is where photographs are taken by an employee in the course of their employment – if X Ltd. employs Z as a photographer, then the photos taken by Z in the course of his work belong to X Ltd. and cannot be used by Z without their permission. This can trip up the unwary – for example, Z may be in difficulties if he wishes to use those photos as part of a portfolio of work.

It looks like your employer owns the photos.

James74

Thanks brightspark, do you think that would apply here? My situation is a bit more convoluted.

I am employed by A Ltd, which has been contracted by B Ltd to do site groundworks.
Part of my job is to do surveys, create ortomosaic maps and 3d models for A Ltd, my employer.
While doing this I take some publicity shots and video solely for the use of A Ltd.
I do this with permission from C Ltd, the architect.
B Ltd foreman expresses an interest and asks to have a look at the footage.
Six months later I find B Ltd using the photos and video in social media sales publicity material.

Just to add, as it might be relevant, B Ltd are contracted by D Ltd to build and sell the houses.
C Ltd (architect) is employed by D Ltd.

I'll shut up now

brightspark

James74 wrote: »

Thanks brightspark, do you think that would apply here? My situation is a bit more convoluted.

I am employed by A Ltd, which has been contracted by B Ltd to do site groundworks.
Part of my job is to do surveys, create ortomosaic maps and 3d models for A Ltd, my employer.
While doing this I take some publicity shots and video solely for the use of A Ltd.
I do this with permission from C Ltd, the architect.
B Ltd foreman expresses an interest and asks to have a look at the footage.
Six months later I find B Ltd using the photos and video in social media sales publicity material.

If you are taking the photos etc while being paid by your employer (who presumably considers it part of your normal work) then it's your employer who owns the copyright.

I suppose it might be different if you take the photos outside of your normal hours and invoice your employer. Or if you are actually self employed anyway (paying your own taxes, PRSI etc)?

Alternatively another option might be to discuss it with your employer and suggest it as a possible revenue stream on future projects, perhaps he might give you a bonus payment?

Potentially he could sue "B" but no doubt there may be adverse consequences, and it's possible that he already gave permission to "B" to help win future contracts.

It's also possible that "C" (or the site owner) will want payment too, you asked for permission from "C" to take pictures of the site for your own companies use, not for selling those pictures to another party.

James74

Aye, the photo were taken while on the company dime. It's a small firm owned by our family so for all intents and purposes they are effectively my photos.

I wouldn't consider suing. Think that would be a big overreaction. I'll have a chat to the contractors and ask for a fair amount (although I've no idea what that would be anyway) for the use of the images mostly because it is a sales type marketing thing they're being used on.
I'm guessing they'll either fire me a few pound or just take the images down. And on reflection today, there's probably not a lot more I can do about it. As the folks above said, it's a learning experience for me.

brightspark

James74 wrote: »

Aye, the photo were taken while on the company dime. It's a small firm owned by our family so for all intents and purposes they are effectively my photos.

I wouldn't consider suing. Think that would be a big overreaction. I'll have a chat to the contractors and ask for a fair amount (although I've no idea what that would be anyway) for the use of the images mostly because it is a sales type marketing thing they're being used on.
I'm guessing they'll either fire me a few pound or just take the images down. And on reflection today, there's probably not a lot more I can do about it. As the folks above said, it's a learning experience for me.

Are you sure your employer won't mind you asking THEIR client for money???
(perhaps I am misreading your post, do you own the company as well as work for it?)

Also the photos are taken on what is presumably private property, this probably means that you should have some sort of release form that allows you to use the images commercially. If the client "B" goes to the developer "D" and complains that you are asking for payment (for photos which you originally only had permission for your own uses) you might find that you will not be permitted to take any photos.

Tread carefully, perhaps even take the loss of income on this and have an upfront arrangement ready for the next time. "B" can then decide to either use your pics or commission ones for themselves.

brightspark

https://www.gettyimages.ie/plans-and-pricing

I guess there are other sites you can look at to see how much photos cost

James74

My employer is my brother, he'll be grand.

Aye, I'm not going to demand anything. The way I was going to approach it was have a chat with contractor about the shots bejng used commercially by them and suggest a fair payment. They'll either agree or not, either way that'll be the end of it. I don't think they'll be too put out or sensitive about me asking, but I'll play it by ear.

The architect will be grand, I asked for his permission because I know him, he'll not care either way... but again, I'll not push anything too hard.

CabanSail

To me it sounds like you, or the company you were employed own the copyright and therefore the right to use the images and not the developer who is using them without permission.

While you would be within your rights to be paid for the work it sounds like you stand to lose more than you would gain.

Rather than going in all "legal" maybe the informal approach would work much better. Make contact with the Marketing Dept of the Developers and explain the situation. They have probably been just given the files and have no idea of how they were obtained and been told they could use them. If you let them know it was your work and how they were obtained you may get a consideration this time but you could get put on the books for future work of a similar nature. After all they seem happy with the product.

prinzeugen

OP you said this was in Derry? Boards might not be the right place to ask as you will replies stating Irish law when you should be looking at UK law if the company using your images is based there.

Citizens Advice in NI might be able to point you in the right direction.

pete4130

James74 wrote: »

Thanks brightspark, do you think that would apply here? My situation is a bit more convoluted.

I am employed by A Ltd, which has been contracted by B Ltd to do site groundworks.
Part of my job is to do surveys, create ortomosaic maps and 3d models for A Ltd, my employer.
While doing this I take some publicity shots and video solely for the use of A Ltd.
I do this with permission from C Ltd, the architect.
B Ltd foreman expresses an interest and asks to have a look at the footage.
Six months later I find B Ltd using the photos and video in social media sales publicity material.

Just to add, as it might be relevant, B Ltd are contracted by D Ltd to build and sell the houses.
C Ltd (architect) is employed by D Ltd.

I'll shut up now

I work as a surveyor as well. The images are used to create the photogrammetric data for mapping purposes. They aren't used for media purposes, weren't shot for media purposes and were never intended for media use. The client may own or be able to request your raw data, as in the images for verification of your work.

On the flip side, you did hand over the raw footage/photos so the client may be in the frame of mind that they can use this as they wish. For me, it would be a variation of works but it all comes down to your relationship with the client.

On the bigger scale of things, if you go chasing payment for this, will you be get further work from the client or will you burn that bridge? Will they tarnish your reputation? If future work is more valuable than payment for the imagery then I'd tend to let this one slide, take it on the chin and learn from the experience and have a clause in future for any use of imagery for media purposes.

Moving forward, I'd suggest speaking to the client in regards to the imagery being used and mention that its a service they'd normally have to pay for if they sourced the material elsewhere and wasn't part of your scope to provide it but as its been done, let it slide and in the future, put that clause in so there is no precedent set.
If people request imagery in future, put a big ugly watermark across it so if it is used, it looks unprofessional on their behalf.

In reality, they'll just remove the material, not pay you, not use you in the future and fighting for payment is more than its worth.

3DataModem

pete4130 wrote: »

I work as a surveyor as well. The images are used to create the photogrammetric data for mapping purposes.

The fact that they are created as part of your job for the purposes of completing the job, seems to suggest they are definitely 'work for hire' and are not your property. They are owned by your employer and can be used as they see fit.

James74

(Small point of order 3ddata... The photos were taken for my employer not the main contractor, the main contractor has no direct involvement with how we do our job. It was this contractor that used the pics)

However... Thanks for all the replies folks. Your good advise has had a productive outcome. Yesterday went with a softly softly approach to the main contractor. Got a genuine "sorry about that / misunderstanding" from them and have spent the last two days taking photos for them officially. I'll not be getting anything for the photos already used and I don't know if there'll be much more out of it, but it's a nice start and it was a damn sight nicer work than what I'm usually at.