Explain all the terminology?!

demello

Hi all,
I have been following the threads in this forum for a while, but I am still confused.
A 30kWh battery - the higher the number, the better the battery, but does it come with different on-board chargers. There is reference to a 6.6 kW on-board charger. Can you have a 30kWh battery with a smaller charger, and what does this mean?

Are all charge points the same? If I bought a Peugeot / Mitsubishi / Fluence electric car, would they charge at public points, and would it charge at a home charger?
The Fluence is a slow charge car, do you need a special charger for this?
Thanks in advance
DM

ewj1978

Leaf: 24kwh,30kwh,40kwh battery.
Zoe: 22kwh,41kwh battery
i3: 60ah(22kwh),94ah(33kwh),120ah(42kwh) battery
Kona:64kwh battery
fluence: no idea.. don't buy one unless you're doing really small range.(less than 70km)

Bigger battery size=bigger range.
Leaf has either a 3.3 or 6.6KW charger. that means it pulls 3.3 or 6.6 from the supply. so a 30kwh battery takes ~ 9hrs from empty on 3.3 and 4.5 on 6.6kw. Fast charges @ upto 50KW.
zoe has a multi adapted charger.. upto 22KW on slow or 43KW on fast.
i3 upto 11kw on slow or 50KW on fast.
kona: 7.6kw on slow or upto 100KW on fast.

Black_Knight

Interesting thread. I too get a bit confused by all the terms.

Any broad knowledge to share on home charger types? I keep hearing zappi being mentioned, but no clue why.

Explanation of public chargers - are there different types (and what's the difference)? Can any car use any type? Are they still free to charge from?

General opinions on battery degradation?

What to expect regarding depreciation?

unkel

Black_Knight wrote: »

Any broad knowledge to share on home charger types? I keep hearing zappi being mentioned, but no clue why.

The Zappi is mentioned as it is one of the few that has built in intelligence in that it can use your solar PV system to send its excess production (that you don't use) to the car. People who have PV or are planning to get it should be interested, for anyone else it is just overpriced for their needs. There is a subsidy of €600 if you get a home charger installed if you have bought a new or second hand EV. You can get a home charger installed for less than that, so absolutely free. See several dedicated threads about the details.

Black_Knight wrote: »

Explanation of public chargers - are there different types (and what's the difference)? Can any car use any type? Are they still free to charge from?

That's a big one, deserves its own thread really. I'll give it a quick go, for simplicity I have not made it 100% complete (leaving out Teslas i.e.):

There are public slow chargers, they use alternating current (AC), you have to use your own cable and these can charge your car at 3.6kW/7.2kW/22kW it depends on your car, on your cable and on the charger

There are public fast chargers, mostly direct current (DC) which charge at 50kW. The two types are CHAdeMO (now obsolete, only used by Nissan Leaf including current model) and CCS (default charging method going forward, used by all other EVs)

All public charging is still free, but maybe not for much longer

Black_Knight wrote: »

General opinions on battery degradation?

Seems to be far less than the first generation batteries from 10 years ago. Pretty much all new EVs now come with 8 year battery warranties. Expect about 10-30% degradation over 10 years. When the car is end of life after say 15 years, the battery will have a second life of another say 15 years as home or grid attached storage

Black_Knight wrote: »

What to expect regarding depreciation?

Almost all EVs have been having zero or even negative depreciation over the last year or two

colm_mcm

unkel wrote: »

Almost all EVs have been having zero or even negative depreciation over the last year or two

Is this because of previous shortages of new EVs?
I know a friend was looking to buy an ioniq last year and they had none (priced at €33k or something, despite giving them away for €25k a few months previous)

Cilar

To make it simple:
Battery: that's your bucket. The amount of energy that can be put in that bucket is in kwh. The bigger the more range.
Charger: that's the tap filling the bucket. The bigger tap, the faster you fill your bucket. The size of the tap is in kw.

In addition to the size of the tap, there is the type of the tap connector. There are 3 different main types at the moment, but you do not need to worry about this, as most public chargers provide the 3 different types.

Cilar

colm_mcm wrote: »

Is this because of previous shortages of new EVs?
I know a friend was looking to buy an ioniq last year and they had none (priced at €33k or something, despite giving them away for €25k a few months previous)

Shortage of second-hand EVs, as more people are starting to notice and get interest in them. Second-hand EVs have slightly raised value over the past 1-2 years (while getting older), which is quite unusual for cars.

colm_mcm

Cilar wrote: »

Shortage of second-hand EVs, as more people are starting to notice and get interest in them. Second-hand EVs have slightly raised value over the past 1-2 years (while getting older), which is quite unusual for cars.

Isn’t that because they had horrendous values for a while there?

NIMAN

Buying an EV made me think about electricity a bit more.
Up to then, never really worried too much about it.

But when you have an EV thats 24Kw battery, its nice to know how much that is to fill from your electricity supply and how much it'll cost you.

For example, my 24Kw Leaf is totally empty and I want to charge it at home.
Thats 24Kw of juice I need to pull.
For ease of calculations, say I am paying €0.18 per Kw on day rate and €0.09 on night rate.

To charge fully during the day : 24 x €0.18 = €4.32.
To charge fully during night : 24 x €0.09 = €2.16.

I have also bought a wireless electricity monitor to see what pulls what power in the house, and it can make interesting and more aware of what is powered on etc.

If you think of your rapid boil kettle. Most of those are 3Kw in power.
This means that if you left your kettle boiling constantly for 1 hour it would use 3Kw
or
3 x €0.18 = €0.54

So to charge your Leaf, it would be equivalent to having that kettle boiling for 8hrs.

=====

Another, LED bulbs. We are told how efficient they are.

Say I have a 5w bulb. It would take 200hrs to use up 1Kw, or €0.18.
So each hour its on, it would use €0.0009
If you switched it on for 24hrs straight, it would cost you €0.0216, or less if you had night rate electricity.



I hope no-one comes along now to tell me I should have listened more in Maths class!
NB : all figures are rounded for convenience. Afaik, the LEaf never pulls the full 24Kw, something like 22Kw max?

unkel

colm_mcm wrote: »

Is this because of previous shortages of new EVs?
I know a friend was looking to buy an ioniq last year and they had none (priced at €33k or something, despite giving them away for €25k a few months previous)

Nobody has ever gotten an Ioniq with metallic paint on the road for €25k. Except me

But yeah, there is growing discrepancy between the group of people who now want an EV (new and particularly second hand) and the supply of EVs. Which is very basic economics for: prices are going up

Black_Knight

unkel wrote: »

Nobody has ever gotten an Ioniq with metallic paint on the road for €25k. Except me

But yeah, there is growing discrepancy between the group of people who now want an EV (new and particularly second hand) and the supply of EVs. Which is very basic economics for: prices are going up

I can see 2nd hand, for some of the newer additions, being quite popular and holding value. 2nd hand Ioniq is probably the closed id be able to afford and it's range is maybe enough for me to put up with, but I'm not sure how practical it would be as our primary car (replacing a passat CC). And, IMO, the front end is too ugly.

Kona and e-Niro have the range, should be practical, they look pretty good on the outside (A bit too hyundai and Kia on the inside), though... 1. I'm not buying a new car or taking fiance to buy one, and 2. They'll be a popular 2nd hand car, thus expensive.

Black_Knight

NIMAN wrote: »

Buying an EV made me think about electricity a bit more.

Buying a few TPlink HS110 power monitoring plug sockets is also very interesting. I pick an appliance and plug it in for a month or so, and see what they're pulling. my TV (and all that goes with it) consumes 71W when on, 8 when off. Kettle pulls 2.6KW. Interesting to see where the power goes

NIMAN

so a TV uses approx 1.3c per hour to run?

Thats decent enough. Good value for money.

unkel

Black_Knight wrote: »

IMO, the front end is too ugly.

Aye. A EUR90 wrap of the grill in glossy black fixes that though.

Black_Knight

unkel wrote: »

Aye. A EUR90 wrap of the grill in glossy black fixes that though.

Theory, or have you pic? (PM me, i've driven this thread too far off topic already)

EDIT: I found you on ioniqforum. Looks well

Mickeroo

Black_Knight wrote: »

Theory, or have you pic? (PM me, i've driven this thread too far off topic already)

Example here with a yellow one: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=106590305&postcount=4603

There's definitely pics of a white one somewhere else in the thread too.

I'd be curious to see what a black one looks like, though black is the one colour that gets away with the grey grill imo.

NIMAN

The Ioniq looks really well in that colour.

demello

Charging at home - can you set it to slow charge or fast charge?
Does the charger or the car dictate how slow/fast you charge the car?
If you wanted to do a slow charge, do you have to use a special charge point?

zilog_jones

No fast charging at home unless you have €40k+ or whatever to spend on the installation.

Both the charger and the car dictate the speed of charging on a normal single-phase AC supply (what you have at home). Common home installations are either about 3.7 kW (16A) or 7.3 kW (32A), but the car may only be capable of charging at something like 3.3 kW on AC (e.g. older Leafs). On a normal domestic 13A socket, you're usually limited to about 2.2 kW.

80sDiesel

unkel wrote: »

There are public slow chargers, they use alternating current (AC), you have to use your own cable and these can charge your car at 3.6kW/7.2kW/22kW it depends on your car, on your cable and on the charger

I see from ecars that there is a 43KW AC charger. Is that correct ?
(Fast AC (Type-2) 43kW )

What cars can take advantage of that increased speed ?

KCross

Zoe only, AFAIK.

demello

Thanks for reply. So, if all home charging is slow charging, how long does it take to charge at home? Also, if the battery has lost some bars, does it take longer to fully charge?

KCross

demello wrote: »

Thanks for reply. So, if all home charging is slow charging, how long does it take to charge at home? Also, if the battery has lost some bars, does it take longer to fully charge?

See if this helps...
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=102642345&postcount=39

iniall

unkel wrote: »

There are public fast chargers, mostly direct current (DC) which charge at 50kW. The two types are CHAdeMO (now obsolete, only used by Nissan Leaf including current model) and CCS (default charging method going forward, used by all other EVs)

Also used by the Outlander PHEV (which has two charge ports, one slow, one CHAdeMO)

unkel

iniall wrote: »

Also used by the Outlander PHEV (which has two charge ports, one slow, one CHAdeMO)

You must have missed my point about keeping it simple not to even further confuse new EV users

hi5

Granny charging, charging from a domestic wall socket.
So named because thats what you may have to use when you visit your granny who lives more than half your range away:).

iniall

unkel wrote: »

You must have missed my point about keeping it simple not to even further confuse new EV users

Ah but keeping it simple shouldn't equal incorrect information

unkel

iniall wrote: »

Ah but keeping it simple shouldn't equal incorrect information

What part of:

unkel wrote: »

I'll give it a quick go, for simplicity I have not made it 100% complete (leaving out Teslas i.e.):

Did you not understand?

80sDiesel

iniall wrote: »

Ah but keeping it simple shouldn't equal incorrect information

I would have to agree. If you had said 'used by leaf' then all good but 'only used by leaf' is incorrect.

Hotblack Desiato

hi5 wrote: »

Granny charging, charging from a domestic wall socket.
So named because thats what you may have to use when you visit your granny who lives more than half your range away:).

I thought it was because it was slow and old fashioned