New job offer, terrible wage

Dagenham Dave

Anyone here ever successfully negotiated a better starting pay rate?

I have 20 years experience in my industry.
Got made redundant a year ago. Took a temporary job in the industry at a lower rate to get back into the field.

Went for interview this week, got the new job.
Just got the proposal pack and the wage is shocking.

Dependant on Experience it said, shelf stacker wage has been offered. This is a professional post with huge responsibility.

I responded by saying I was shocked at the wage offer as I feel it doesn't reflect my experience or skills

Apparently it's low as they will need to invest time on me for training and industry awareness

Any tips on where to go from here?

Batgurl

Stand your ground.

You know yourself you can get better (assuming your previous job paid better) so just tell them you were expecting more along the lines of X and ask if there is anything they can do to meet your expectations (X should always be 20% higher than you would settle for to allow for negotiation.)

Either they will meet your expectations or pass on you.

OMM 0000

Sorry to hear about this. Must be so disheartening.

I agree with the above advice, reply with your expectation. If they're not willing to budge, move on to a different job.

I don't think you should take the job at the low wage, because you'll just hate the job, hate yourself and hate your life.

Dagenham Dave

Thank you both for the excellent advice.

I was pretty gutted last night and a bit insulted to be honest.

But I've slept on it and won't be accepting. I don't see why my salary should be lowered because the owner his spending time on my training, their response when I said the wage was poor.

Even with a six month review I can't see it increasing much.

I'll take the positives from it, I interviewed and got it.

The Nutty M

As said,don't take the lower wage. Some companies in Ireland have forgotten what their most valuable asset is and still wonder why they can't get anybody to fill positions.

If you can sustain yourself for a period to wait for a more suitable wage,then do.

bucketybuck

Hiring can be a bit of a minefield, people can interview well but then turn out to be completely useless when they get their foot in the door, so I know that some companies prefer to start new employees towards the lower end of the wage scale, and then once the new hire has proven they aren't bluffers are open to discussing better deals. After you have been burned a few times by rubbish new hires you can start to understand why.

That doesn't mean you should undersell yourself though, if the offer is insultingly low and they have no interest in coming to a more reasonable agreement then just move on.

Its important to have a job but thats not a black and white thing, sometimes its better to roll the dice again somewhere else than to take a role that is already problematic right from the start.

duffman13

Dagenham Dave wrote: »

Thank you both for the excellent advice.

I was pretty gutted last night and a bit insulted to be honest.

But I've slept on it and won't be accepting. I don't see why my salary should be lowered because the owner his spending time on my training, their response when I said the wage was poor.

Even with a six month review I can't see it increasing much.

I'll take the positives from it, I interviewed and got it.

Fair play, definitely don't take it, the two best contract offers you get are going in the door then going out the door. At a 6 month review they may offer an increase but I'd bet it's a small percentile.

As you said at least you got offered the job. Good luck with the hunt

i71jskz5xu42pb

bucketybuck wrote: »

Hiring can be a bit of a minefield, people can interview well but then turn out to be completely useless when they get their foot in the door, so I know that some companies prefer to start new employees towards the lower end of the wage scale, and then once the new hire has proven they aren't bluffers are open to discussing better deals. After you have been burned a few times by rubbish new hires you can start to understand why.

This make no sense. If people are bluffers there's nothing to stop the employer getting rid of them in the first 12 months. Starting them on a lower wage does nothing to help you figure this out. All it will do it demotivate potentially good employees.

Dagenham Dave wrote: »

Even with a six month review I can't see it increasing much.

Correct, there'll be something else in 6 months, they'll give you a single digit raise and tell you that's good even though it probably will still have you way off where you should be. Oh and we'll look at it again in 6 months.

Diziet

Push back and negotiate stating your expectation clearly ('Given my qualifications, experience and the responsibilities fo the role, I am expecting at least x per year. I do not want to be spending my time thinking about moving jobs when I prefer to be fully immersed in my work...').

Be prepared to walk and look for something else. The job market is very healthy.

Years ago, i was offered a job I liked and knew i could do, but the offer was very low. I pushed back using more or less the script above, and they came back with a vastly improved offer, which I accepted.

Akrasia

Starting salary is hugely important because any future bonuses/pay rises you get will be a percentage of your current salary. If you start on 20k and get a 5% pay rise, that would bring you up by 1k

If you started on 25k and got a 5% increase that's 1.25k of a rise

If you start low you'll fall further and further behind the other workers on your team/at your level. Even if you get a promotion, your employer will still probably base the new salary on what you were being paid before.

Sir Ophiuchus

Akrasia wrote: »

Starting salary is hugely important because any future bonuses/pay rises you get will be a percentage of your current salary. If you start on 20k and get a 5% pay rise, that would bring you up by 1k

If you started on 25k and got a 5% increase that's 1.25k of a rise

If you start low you'll fall further and further behind the other workers on your team/at your level. Even if you get a promotion, your employer will still probably base the new salary on what you were being paid before.

It's why, very often, moving employers is the best way to get meaningful pay increases.

tvjunki

I was in the same situation as you regarding a job offer. I had two offers and played one off against the other. You could even have an imaginary job offer elsewhere if you like. I got the contract job changed to become permanent and increase of 4K.

You say thanks for the offer and that you would like to work for the company but based on your skills and experience you think you are worth more than the offer and ask them if they can raise their offer. You have experience and you are a quick learner. If you do take it at the rate they are offering expect to use as a stepping stone to somewhere else. If they know you are out of work a while they will use to their advantage or their budget is low.
All they can do is say no. Best of luck.

Xterminator

You could even have an imaginary job offer elsewhere if you like. I got the contract job changed to become permanent and increase of 4K.

I personally would never lie to try to achieve more money. Integrity is important.

i remember a friend told me he went to his boss and said he had an offer of a job for 5k more than he was on and wanted current employer to match. The employer agreed to match on condition of seeing a copy of the job offer. AWKWARD!

The number of vacancies out there is growing in most sectors. If i was the OP id ask for more money. if it wasn't forthcoming id take the job anyways he is currently unemployed, but i'd jump ship the very 1st chance i got. It should be easier to find new better paid position once he is working in the field.

so tactically taking the job would seem a good idea - but no harm in asking can we negotiate more before accepting. It does happen, nut it depends on whether the employer feels he could get someone else cheaper. IE if they had 5 good candidates they wouldn't offer more to one unless that candidate was miles better than the rest.

tvjunki

Xterminator wrote: »

I personally would never lie to try to achieve more money. Integrity is important.

i remember a friend told me he went to his boss and said he had an offer of a job for 5k more than he was on and wanted current employer to match. The employer agreed to match on condition of seeing a copy of the job offer. AWKWARD!

The number of vacancies out there is growing in most sectors. If i was the OP id ask for more money. if it wasn't forthcoming id take the job anyways he is currently unemployed, but i'd jump ship the very 1st chance i got. It should be easier to find new better paid position once he is working in the field.

so tactically taking the job would seem a good idea - but no harm in asking can we negotiate more before accepting. It does happen, nut it depends on whether the employer feels he could get someone else cheaper. IE if they had 5 good candidates they wouldn't offer more to one unless that candidate was miles better than the rest.

In my case I did have another job offer. One permanent offer and the other contract offer.
I wanted the contract one but asked to change to permanent as I was going for a mortgage. The contract one changed to permanent and the wages did increase.

I must have been lucky over the years as I would always ask for more than what I was earning and would get the job. Maybe your friend was really chancing his arm and the boss knew this.

I would ask anyway for an increase. They can say no. Take the job and as I said use to get another job.

Dagenham Dave

Well I replied this morning.
Stated my case, my desired wage and asked about the percentage increase after 6 months.

Response so far - absolutely nothing.

I think that says all I need to know about them as an employer

Batgurl

Dagenham Dave wrote: »

Well I replied this morning.
Stated my case, my desired wage and asked about the percentage increase after 6 months.

Response so far - absolutely nothing.

I think that says all I need to know about them as an employer

Not necessarily. In fact, it could be the opposite. Perhaps they are looking into ways to get the extra funds for your salary? Or this is their version of a flinch before countering ( in which case I really hope you built in +20% wiggle room in your figure).

Obviously keep looking and applying for other jobs but don’t lose the faith just yet.

tvjunki

Batgurl wrote: »

Not necessarily. In fact, it could be the opposite. Perhaps they are looking into ways to get the extra funds for your salary? Or this is their version of a flinch before countering ( in which case I really hope you built in +20% wiggle room in your figure).

Obviously keep looking and applying for other jobs but don’t lose the faith just yet.

I agree. Don't think the worst yet.
I called the person who offered the job to me and said what I said in the last post and he said he would have to see. 2days later I got a call. He said he was trying to get approval for increase and change.

tvjunki

Dagenham Dave wrote: »

Well I replied this morning.
Stated my case, my desired wage and asked about the percentage increase after 6 months.

Response so far - absolutely nothing.

I think that says all I need to know about them as an employer

If you called them wait and see what happens. If you do take it assume it will be very temporary until you get a better offer. If you find something better and they ask what you are leaving in the interview then you say you used it as you were out of work and wanted to get back into employment.

bilbot79

Don't take it personally. It's just a market like any other.. they might have made a low offer cos they are smashed. It's only your worth if you accept it