draining bog

Steed13

hello.
I have 27 acres of land about 14 of it is bog.
I want to drain the bog down to the river as a long term solution to make more grazing land.
does anyone have any good information how to do this?
I am thinking about hireing an agricultural contractor but I don't know of any that do land drainage systems.
located co Donegal.

Gudstock

Are there farmers with similar land that has already been reclaimed (and that has lasted effectively) neighbouring you? Perhaps a chat with them to get you started on what type of drainage worked or didn't work for them and what type of aftercare is needed?

What depth of bog? Cutaway? Raised or blanket bog?

I'm sure there are plenty willing plant hire contractors nearby but you should definitely get advice from local farmers with similar land first and also contractor recommendations from them as it will be an expensive venture that you will only want to do it once. May not make economic sense either but hey if I could I would!

Never wrestle with pigs

Get a really good local lad that specialises in digger work and land drainage. He'll have good knowledge of what works for the local ground. Usually with bog, it's big open drains rather than pipes and stones.

148multi

Steed13 wrote: »

hello.
I have 27 acres of land about 14 of it is bog.
I want to drain the bog down to the river as a long term solution to make more grazing land.
does anyone have any good information how to do this?
I am thinking about hireing an agricultural contractor but I don't know of any that do land drainage systems.
located co Donegal.

The lads in New Zealand made a great job of turning bog in to grassland, plots like bord na mona, but higher in the centre.

dh1985

Steed13 wrote: »

hello.
I have 27 acres of land about 14 of it is bog.
I want to drain the bog down to the river as a long term solution to make more grazing land.
does anyone have any good information how to do this?
I am thinking about hireing an agricultural contractor but I don't know of any that do land drainage systems.
located co Donegal.

There was a man posted here years ago where he done what you are talking about with the Connacht agri pipes and had great success. There specifically designed for draining bog if i recall correctly. They say that stnadard shores with stone will just sink unevenly and stop working after a while. If yoi searxh for connacht agri on boards you should be able to find previous thread on the topic

coolshannagh28

Your bog is a carbon sink and will be more valuable financially to you for that purpose in the near future than going to the expense of trying to make it grazing land.

Say my name

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

Your bog is a carbon sink and will be more valuable financially to you for that purpose in the near future than going to the expense of trying to make it grazing land.

We live in hope of that.
Larry and Glanbia/Dairygold and co. would be the big opposers to such a thing.
No guarrantees on such a thing happening but if the carbon cycle is going to be tackled by the powers that be, it will have to be incentivised/encouraged on an EU level. Whatever about a world level.

Birdnuts

Say my name wrote: »

We live in hope of that.
Larry and Glanbia/Dairygold and co. would be the big opposers to such a thing.
No guarrantees on such a thing happening but if the carbon cycle is going to be tackled by the powers that be, it will have to be incentivised/encouraged on an EU level. Whatever about a world level.

Plus their role in flood control and general water quality in terms of reducing nutrient run-off etc.

Steed13

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

Your bog is a carbon sink and will be more valuable financially to you for that purpose in the near future than going to the expense of trying to make it grazing land.

How can the bog be more financially valuable as a carbon sink than lamb? Environmentally it’s better but how can I make money with it?

coolshannagh28

Steed13 wrote: »

How can the bog be more financially valuable as a carbon sink than lamb? Environmentally it’s better but how can I make money with it?

Well our government ,as in all things has been slow off the mark in meeting its 2020 carbon targets but announcements are expected soon around biogas, carbon credits and afforestation among others . The role of bogland as a carbon sink could be a part of the strategy and the rundown of Bord na mona is evidence of this.

Steed13

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

Well our government ,as in all things has been slow off the mark in meeting its 2020 carbon targets but announcements are expected soon around biogas, carbon credits and afforestation among others . The role of bogland as a carbon sink could be a part of the strategy and the rundown of Bord na mona is evidence of this.

You just reminded me of the afforestation program. I checked teagasc. Apparently they will not only drain the bog for free but they will plant trees to soak up the water and the canopy of the trees shades the pesky bog vegetation and then they come and cut down the trees and pay! This may be the cheapest and environmentally friendly way. Long term this may be a profitable way to fix the bog problem with a good environmental impact and even make money. I won’t make that money from planting trees for many years but it may be more profitable than paying to drain and then lambing for many years to earn my money back.

Zeebsisgone654

Say my name wrote: »

We live in hope of that.
Larry and Glanbia/Dairygold and co. would be the big opposers to such a thing.
No guarrantees on such a thing happening but if the carbon cycle is going to be tackled by the powers that be, it will have to be incentivised/encouraged on an EU level. Whatever about a world level.

Why would Glanbia or Dairygold not want a member to not reclaim their own land ?

older by the day

Steed13 wrote: »

hello.
I have 27 acres of land about 14 of it is bog.
I want to drain the bog down to the river as a long term solution to make more grazing land.
does anyone have any good information how to do this?
I am thinking about hireing an agricultural contractor but I don't know of any that do land drainage systems.
located co Donegal.

Get advice before ringing the digger man, I know of lads getting a water deviner in to find springs and they say its a great job. It's costly work, ask some one in the area that has reclaimed some bog like yours.

Say my name

Zeebsisgone654 wrote: »

Why would Glanbia or Dairygold not want a member to not reclaim their own land ?

Just a generalization on the thought of carbon credits going to farmers/landowners for doing nothing or implementing carbon soil saving measures. It wouldn't suit/benefit the current system of farming for food and the output/input system benefiting the agri companies.

Zeebsisgone654

Say my name wrote: »

Just a generalization on the thought of carbon credits going to farmers/landowners for doing nothing or implementing carbon soil saving measures. It wouldn't suit/benefit the current system of farming for food and the output/input system benefiting the agri companies.

Dairygold is a coop owned by it’s farmer members and Glanbia is a sort of hybrid coop. Anyway I have quite a bit of bog myself and find this thread interesting

coolshannagh28

Zeebsisgone654 wrote: »

Dairygold is a coop owned by it’s farmer members and Glanbia is a sort of hybrid coop. Anyway I have quite a bit of bog myself and find this thread interesting

Marginal land / bog will draw more income as time goes on , there are already several environmental schemes specifically targeted at this type of land and this will increase . Carbon credits will also provide opportunities for forest / mountain type land , I note that Michael Gove in the UK recently indicated that future subsidy would be directly linked to green landuse, if we are to come close to our 2020 targets we will have to do the same . CAP reform will provide good pointers as will near term government announcements.

lab man

Get onto a Birmingham fella In doonbeg co.clare if u check the ifj about 2 or 3 yrs ago they'll have a thing on him he had cows grazing bog last March on big that was reclaimed, he does a hump and hollow type reclaim

Birdnuts

Steed13 wrote: »

You just reminded me of the afforestation program. I checked teagasc. Apparently they will not only drain the bog for free but they will plant trees to soak up the water and the canopy of the trees shades the pesky bog vegetation and then they come and cut down the trees and pay! This may be the cheapest and environmentally friendly way. Long term this may be a profitable way to fix the bog problem with a good environmental impact and even make money. I won’t make that money from planting trees for many years but it may be more profitable than paying to drain and then lambing for many years to earn my money back.

Hmm - Whoever told you that would need to check his facts. Firstly the forestry service will no longer give forestry grants for peatlands as its totally counterproductive for Carbon saving and the environment in general. Forestry in such sites requires draining, leads to runoff etc. which is destructive as it realeases large amounts of CO2,Methane, pollutes waterways with peat silt etc.

Limestone Cowboy

lab man wrote: »

Get onto a Birmingham fella In doonbeg co.clare if u check the ifj about 2 or 3 yrs ago they'll have a thing on him he had cows grazing bog last March on big that was reclaimed, he does a hump and hollow type reclaim

Danny Bermingham I think his name is. Tegasc have had a few farm walks there.

arctictree

We reclaimed about 5 acres of bog this year. We have a drain running through the middle of it but water still pools on the top during wet weather. Not sure what can be done now.

Steed13

older by the day wrote: »

Get advice before ringing the digger man, I know of lads getting a water deviner in to find springs and they say its a great job. It's costly work, ask some one in the area that has reclaimed some bog like yours.

I have some counsins but I really don't want to bother them id rather just have a list of tasks and do it myself or have a professional or a few to be there with me. I don't have much money THIS exact moment but I do believe long term for my children God blessed they have 27 acres of grazing land.

Steed13

arctictree wrote: »

We reclaimed about 5 acres of bog this year. We have a drain running through the middle of it but water still pools on the top during wet weather. Not sure what can be done now.

I would imagine more piping for your land but mine I image maybe its not worth reclaiming. but if teagasc and other sources about planting trees are correct that may be the only plausible way to create grazing land for future generations. they do the work for foresting the bog and then I get grazing land in said amount of time. basically if I can figure a way to reclaim bog its worth it for the future. I think ill do connaght agri piping and trees in the peat. then graze after the trees are gone. I think I can get maybe 25 acres for grazing after the bog begins to return to grazing land. I know its possible because this was a working farm when my grand mother and her family were alive.

Markcheese

As birdnuts said they won't plant forestry on peat bog, and if you do get the grants and plant forestry, then after harvest you have to replant forestry...

Sacrolyte

If there’s stone under the bog you can turn it upside down.
If i had bog I’d probably plant it.

80sDiesel

Could he lighty plant alder around which will do a good job of soaking up the water. After they have grown for a few years you shouldn' be able to add animals.

Belongamick

Steed,
Similar to yourself here in Mayo - 37 acre's, plus 15 areas pure bog, never reclaimed. Its amazing what can be done. I have two pictures attached. One is a patchwork of reclaimed land in Ballycroy. You can clearly see where lads have made the decision to reclaim. Sheep are grazing there now or light cattle. There is a slope towards the road which helps with drainage.
The second picture shows a strip of ground my neighbor reclaimed sandwiched between a river and turf cutting bog. He cuts silage there every year - sometimes weanlings.
Check locally what farmers in the area are doing based on the local land type.
If you cannot release the water via a river etc then you have a big problem.
Do the reclamation in stages - this summer open drains, see the result next winter, does it flood again. Next summer lever the surface, see the result of that. I am starting opening drains here soon and leaving it at that for 12 months. Personally, I would be reluctant to go in heavy ploughing etc because the ground is very peaty and it may turn to dust is tilled too much.

Coralcoras

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

Marginal land / bog will draw more income as time goes on , there are already several environmental schemes specifically targeted at this type of land and this will increase . Carbon credits will also provide opportunities for forest / mountain type land , I note that Michael Gove in the UK recently indicated that future subsidy would be directly linked to green landuse, if we are to come close to our 2020 targets we will have to do the same . CAP reform will provide good pointers as will near term government announcements.

Can 100% second this. Carbon storage, water attenuation and cleaning, biodiversity....The EU heads want to move payments away from production and towards these public goods. It will happen and the only thing holding up the show is the difficulty redirecting the great CAP beast. Changes are in small increments. Delighted now my parents didn't improve our wet callows further. Its a great little spot and I cant wait until some scheme like the RBAPS one trialled in Leitrm not long ago gets rolled out nationally!!!

Please consider before you make up your mind fully. I know theres great satisfaction in creating a nice green field. But the economics of keeping that artificial hungry grass fed is not very economical. Plus you might have to consider rush whacking down the road too.

Steed13

Belongamick wrote: »

Steed,
Similar to yourself here in Mayo - 37 acre's, plus 15 areas pure bog, never reclaimed. Its amazing what can be done. I have two pictures attached. One is a patchwork of reclaimed land in Ballycroy. You can clearly see where lads have made the decision to reclaim. Sheep are grazing there now or light cattle. There is a slope towards the road which helps with drainage.
The second picture shows a strip of ground my neighbor reclaimed sandwiched between a river and turf cutting bog. He cuts silage there every year - sometimes weanlings.
Check locally what farmers in the area are doing based on the local land type.
If you cannot release the water via a river etc then you have a big problem.
Do the reclamation in stages - this summer open drains, see the result next winter, does it flood again. Next summer lever the surface, see the result of that. I am starting opening drains here soon and leaving it at that for 12 months. Personally, I would be reluctant to go in heavy ploughing etc because the ground is very peaty and it may turn to dust is tilled too much.

That is a great plan. Open drains may be the best way to go so I can keep an eye on the water level for the first few years until things really dry up well.

Steed13

Coralcoras wrote: »

Can 100% second this. Carbon storage, water attenuation and cleaning, biodiversity....The EU heads want to move payments away from production and towards these public goods. It will happen and the only thing holding up the show is the difficulty redirecting the great CAP beast. Changes are in small increments. Delighted now my parents didn't improve our wet callows further. Its a great little spot and I cant wait until some scheme like the RBAPS one trialled in Leitrm not long ago gets rolled out nationally!!!

Please consider before you make up your mind fully. I know theres great satisfaction in creating a nice green field. But the economics of keeping that artificial hungry grass fed is not very economical. Plus you might have to consider rush whacking down the road too.

I’m curious how much money could a bog be worth annually?
My cousin right next door raises sheep and he lives well. If I made my land like his I think perhaps I could live well too doing the same. The only difference is his land is perfect for grazing and half of mine is bog but if I got rid of the bog I could make good money.
I think I may just have to wait and see what carbon sinks are worth before digging.

farisfat

I seen a job done with humps and hollows that was being grazed with cows.
It was working very good.
A dozer would be the job in good weather.

Coralcoras

Steed13 wrote: »

I’m curious how much money could a bog be worth annually?
My cousin right next door raises sheep and he lives well. If I made my land like his I think perhaps I could live well too doing the same. The only difference is his land is perfect for grazing and half of mine is bog but if I got rid of the bog I could make good money.
I think I may just have to wait and see what carbon sinks are worth before digging.

https://rbapseu.files.wordpress.com/2017/04/rbaps-ireland-and-spain-newsletter-no-2-april-2017.pdf

The payments during that scheme are outlined on pg 3. Now its for grassland, but the principles will likely apply to any sort of land currently recognized as grazed under your current CAP I direct payment. They are going for a graduated scoring system based on the number and total cover of certain plants (that indicate ecological goodness). Very easy to come by in less disturbed pastures.

Look up the latest EIP projects recently funded. The Pearl Mussel one received E20 million euro! Farmers will have to stop draining land for payments. The amount of money they will get will depend on the amount of plants there that indicate wet peaty habitats. The ball is rolling..these are like pilot studies to prove a new model is workable, i.e. showing the farmers can and want to deliver. In the backround, scientists are gathering the evidence required at EU level to shift payments from CAP I (production) to CAP II (nature/environment).

I'm not trying to come across as preachy, but I think that this is a great way to get more farming money to the west...sure dont we have loads of the stuff.

I've watched my parents produce alright lambs from okay 'improved' land. We all know the struggle of it at minimal investment. I want to be paid for producing environmental goods now as well as lsome nice Roscommon lambs. At this point the only thing that would convince me to convert my ecological land to productive agri-land is to make a site. Otherwise i'm encouraging nature and plants.

lab man

Limestone Cowboy wrote:

Danny Bermingham I think his name is. Tegasc have had a few farm walks there.

Ya think so limestone

lab man

Sacrolyte wrote:

If there’s stone under the bog you can turn it upside down. If i had bog I’d probably plant it.

How could there be stone under bog?

148multi

Steed13 wrote: »

I would imagine more piping for your land but mine I image maybe its not worth reclaiming. but if teagasc and other sources about planting trees are correct that may be the only plausible way to create grazing land for future generations. they do the work for foresting the bog and then I get grazing land in said amount of time. basically if I can figure a way to reclaim bog its worth it for the future. I think ill do connaght agri piping and trees in the peat. then graze after the trees are gone. I think I can get maybe 25 acres for grazing after the bog begins to return to grazing land. I know its possible because this was a working farm when my grand mother and her family were alive.

Its like looking into a crystal ball, if you drain or plant bog it will no longer be a carbon sink, when the trees stop growing, they'll no longer be a carbon sink, and you probably won't be able to use them as firewood. Check to see if there is iron in the water, have seen it a few times and the iron builds up like glue in the pipes very quickly.