Open drive with Liberty refused

yamaha4life

hi all so my insurance is due soon and i want driving of other cars i.e parents, O/H im 28 y/o 11 yrs ncb. last year liberty refuse to have it on my policy due to my previous occupation in the motor trade, i explained on the phone that i dont work in motor trade any more and that i have no workshop ect of my own but they still refused saying the underwriter wont cover me due to my previous connection to the motor trade. so does any one have any idea what i can do with my renewal or a different conpany that will allow me driving of other cars?

selectamatic

Rsa/sertus do driving of other cars up to 2000cc and the car doesn't need a current insurance policy. If you've any connection to a public servant cornmarket could be an option they are underwritten by rsa too but I believe the cc limit is higher 3500cc iirc.

Axa do it too but their quotes are usually mental.

Aviva and a few others do it as well but they require the car to have a current insurance policy.

Del2005

Most other companies offer it as a cost option. They have no right to know what you used to do. Many moons ago my Father got driving other cars after he said he never done nixers, he was a mechanic.

beauf

Add yourself as named driver on parents policy...

CrowdedHouse

Just as a btw OP - you realise that open drive and driving other cars are two completely different things?

coylemj

selectamatic wrote: »

Rsa/sertus do driving of other cars up to 2000cc and the car doesn't need a current insurance policy. If you've any connection to a public servant cornmarket could be an option they are underwritten by rsa too but I believe the cc limit is higher 3500cc iirc.

Third party cover for 'Driving other Cars' typically does not include an engine capacity (c.c.) limit. The usual condition is that you do not own the car, it's not hired by you and (sometimes) it is not owned by anyone in your household. And if you are insured with Aviva or Liberty, there must be a policy in place on the borrowed car, whether it covers you to drive it or not. All regardless of engine size.

Where your policy gives you fully comp. cover to drive other cars, that typically comes with a monetary limit and/or engine capacity limit. For example, they will pay no more than €30,000 if you write off the neighbour's car. And sometimes the fully comp. cover is limited to cars with an engine below a certain c.c. as suggested in your post.

So say the limit was 2,000 c.c, you could borrow a 1,600 c.c.car and you would have fully comp. cover but if you borrowed a 2,500 c.c. car, you would have third party cover only.

yamaha4life

CrowdedHouse wrote: »

Just as a btw OP - you realise that open drive and driving other cars are two completely different things?

no i didnt, what is the difference i dont mind being educated 😂

yamaha4life

beauf wrote: »

Add yourself as named driver on parents policy...

i have that done but the renewal is due also and they charged for the privilege, when i have my own insurance and not exactly 17 y/o on a l plate, most of my friends can jump into anything and be insured, i was refused it in my policy as stated because i was working in the motor trade

CrowdedHouse

Open drive/driving is where anyone with your permission (generally 25-70 full licence) can drive your car and be fully covered.

Don't think many companies offer it anymore, Aviva do. As you can imagine it's a significant extra premium.

yamaha4life

CrowdedHouse wrote: »

Open drive/driving is where anyone with your permission (generally 25-70 full licence) can drive your car and be fully covered.

Don't think many companies offer it anymore, Aviva do. As you can imagine it's a significant extra premium.

thanks

no its driving of other cars is what im after as you can imagine it would be convienent i dont think i can change the thread title now?

selectamatic

coylemj wrote: »

Third party cover for 'Driving other Cars' typically does not include an engine capacity (c.c.) limit. The usual condition is that you do not own the car, it's not hired by you and (sometimes) it is not owned by anyone in your household. And if you are insured with Aviva or Liberty, there must be a policy in place on the borrowed car, whether it covers you to drive it or not. All regardless of engine size.

Where your policy gives you fully comp. cover to drive other cars, that typically comes with a monetary limit and/or engine capacity limit. For example, they will pay no more than €30,000 if you write off the neighbour's car. And sometimes the fully comp. cover is limited to cars with an engine below a certain c.c. as suggested in your post.

So say the limit was 2,000 c.c, you could borrow a 1,600 c.c.car and you would have fully comp. cover but if you borrowed a 2,500 c.c. car, you would have third party cover only.

Interesting. I must look into that. Its fully comp driving of other cars alright for cars up to 2000cc. I didn't see any mention of third party cover for cars over 2000cc but maybe its buried in the small print somewhere.

beauf

yamaha4life wrote: »

i have that done but the renewal is due also and they charged for the privilege, when i have my own insurance and not exactly 17 y/o on a l plate, most of my friends can jump into anything and be insured, i was refused it in my policy as stated because i was working in the motor trade

If you think that's too expensive the other options will be even more expensive no.

coylemj

selectamatic wrote: »

Interesting. I must look into that. Its fully comp driving of other cars alright for cars up to 2000cc. I didn't see any mention of third party cover for cars over 2000cc but maybe its buried in the small print somewhere.

If you have fully comp. cover 'driving other cars' up to 2,000 c.c., you will almost certainly have third party only cover for cars with bigger engines.

Just to clarify, I have studied the policy documents of most companies in the Irish market and in the section dealing with third party cover for 'driving other cars', I have never seen an engine limit.

Over the years, Axa have imposed different conditions and limits for fully comp. cover when driving other cars, these days it's limited to cars which do not exceed 2,000 c.c. and the maximum claim (for damage to the borrowed car) they will pay is €50,000. I have an Axa policy document from 2011 where the maximum payout if you damage a borrowed car is the same but there is no engine limit.

Del2005

beauf wrote: »

Add yourself as named driver on parents policy...

It would be a very rare policy that allows named drivers use the 3rd party extension to drive other cars.


The only restrictions on my driving other cars is when getting a loaner from a garage it has to be under 2l and a certain value.

coylemj

Del2005 wrote: »

It would be a very rare policy that allows named drivers use the 3rd party extension to drive other cars.

+1 This was discussed in another thread recently. Under 'vehicles and classses of vehicles covered' on your cert, where the policy covers other cars, it will explicitly say something long the lines of..... 'being driven with the consent of the owner by the insured' i.e. nobody other than the policyholder is covered to drive other cars.

Del2005 wrote: »

The only restrictions on my driving other cars is when getting a loaner from a garage it has to be under 2l and a certain value.

Can you name that insurance company please. I have never seen a restriction on engine size for third party cover where the policy includes 'driving other cars'.

beauf

Del2005 wrote: »

It would be a very rare policy that allows named drivers use the 3rd party extension to drive other cars.


The only restrictions on my driving other cars is when getting a loaner from a garage it has to be under 2l and a certain value.

He originally said it was drive other cars, like his parents.
Being named on their policy would give him comp on their policy.
Whereas driving other cars from your own policy only gives you 3rd party (usually)
(I didn't mean driving other cars on the parent policy)

Its since become clear he wants a garage like policy, but without the cost. So the whole parents car is really a miss-direction.

Del2005

coylemj wrote: »

+1 This was discussed in another thread recently. Under 'vehicles and classses of vehicles covered' on your cert, where the policy covers other cars, it will explicitly say something long the lines of..... 'being driven with the consent of the owner by the insured' i.e. nobody other than the policyholder is covered to drive other cars.



Can you name that insurance company please. I have never seen a restriction on engine size for third party cover where the policy includes 'driving other cars'.

Allianz. Just read the certificate and it's <2l for 7 days when my car is being repaired. No price limit, no idea where I got that from

beauf

I don't remember the details but I remember checking could I drive a friends 3.2 Boxster S on either driving other cars on my own or be a temp named driver on their policy. This for sharing driving on a road trip. Neither insurer would allow it. There was some mention that if I'd had a similar level of car insured myself, and history on similar. It might have been allowed. They didn't class a 2L warm GT type saloon as similar.

Long time ago. But hazy on the details. I could be wrong.

I think for the OP they suspect he wants it for for work purposes. I'm only guessing, probably wrong.

flexcon

yamaha4life wrote: »

hi all so my insurance is due soon and i want driving of other cars i.e parents, O/H im 28 y/o 11 yrs ncb. last year liberty refuse to have it on my policy due to my previous occupation in the motor trade, i explained on the phone that i dont work in motor trade any more and that i have no workshop ect of my own but they still refused saying the underwriter wont cover me due to my previous connection to the motor trade. so does any one have any idea what i can do with my renewal or a different conpany that will allow me driving of other cars?

AFAIK - Isn't third party extension to allow driving of other cars standard on ALL private motor policies from Liberty and also formally Quinn direct.

I wasn't aware they have taken this away actually.

Unless that has changed.

beauf

I don't know about those specially. There was some talk about some companies only allow it, once the other car is insured. That you can't drive an uninsured car as "other" cars.

I checked my policy recently for this and mine doesn't have this exclusion. It handy if someone has bought a new car, and you want to test drive their old car, or bring it somewhere for some reason.

But none of this is what the OP is looking for.

Some of those youtube reviewers have mentioned they use Insurance similar to TV production Companies would have, to cover driving other peoples cars. But then its treated like their job. So back to garage insurance.

coylemj

beauf wrote: »

I don't know about those specially. There was some talk about some companies only allow it, once the other car is insured. That you can't drive an uninsured car as "other" cars.

+1 Aviva and Liberty currently have that condition. In order for your 'driving other cars' to be in effect when you borrow a car, there must be a current policy out for that car, whether it covers you or not.

Aviva conditions for 'driving other cars' ....

This cover will only apply if –

4. a current certificate of insurance has been issued and remains in force on the Private car being driven under the Driving other cars cover provided;

Liberty ....

4 there is a current insurance policy in place in another person’s name that covers the other car

flexcon

coylemj wrote: »

Liberty currently have that condition. In order for your 'driving other cars' to be in effect when you borrow a car, there must be a current policy out for that car, whether it covers you or not.


4 there is a current insurance policy in place in another person’s name that covers the other car

As a liberty Insurance customer:

Just checked my policy and I don't have this stipulated. I've been with them like 10 years though - wonder if I keep renewing do I keep some legacy benefits? 100% this is a recent change, as when I was a young kid id be driving my mothers Toyota Glanza Turbo to the shops........

peteb2

flexcon wrote:

Just checked my policy and I don't have this stipulated. I've been with them like 10 years though - wonder if I keep renewing do I keep some legacy benefits? 100% this is a recent change, as when I was a young kid id be driving my mothers Toyota Glanza Turbo to the shops........

You checked your schedule or your policy wording?

coylemj

flexcon wrote: »

As a liberty Insurance customer:

Just checked my policy and I don't have this stipulated.

I quoted from the curent Liberty policy document. Which applies to all Liberty customers.

P. 17 'Driving Other Cars', condition 4......

https://www.libertyinsurance.ie/assets/Uploads/Private-Vehicle-Policy-Booklet.pdf

flexcon wrote: »

I've been with them like 10 years though - wonder if I keep renewing do I keep some legacy benefits?

Variations will be noted in your schedule and/or cert. But the Ts & Cs in the policy document apply to everyone.

flexcon wrote: »

100% this is a recent change, as when I was a young kid id be driving my mothers Toyota Glanza Turbo to the shops........

Yes, Aviva started it and Liberty followed.

How would this change have affected your ability to drive your mother's car when you were a 'kid'? It would only make a difference if you had a policy in your own name with 'driving other cars' cover and she allowed the policy on her car to lapse.

coylemj

Del2005 wrote: »

Allianz. Just read the certificate and it's <2l for 7 days when my car is being repaired. No price limit, no idea where I got that from

That sounds like a restricted form of 'driving other cars' which is applicable only when your car is off the road.

In fact, when you borrow a car (known in the motor trade as a 'replacement car') from a garage, they usually insist that you temporarily move your insurance over to their car. Any time I've borrowed a car from a garage, the procedure is that you hand your licence and insurance cert. to the receptionist and she phones your insurance company to move the cover over to the replacement car. Because if the customer claims that he has 'driving other cars' cover and it turns out that he doesn't, the garage would be liable for third party claims. So they cover themselves by insisting that your insurance is moved to their car.

So it doesn't really matter whether you have 'driving other cars' cover or not when you borrow a car from a garage.

yamaha4life

beauf wrote: »

He originally said it was drive other cars, like his parents.
Being named on their policy would give him comp on their policy.
Whereas driving other cars from your own policy only gives you 3rd party (usually)
(I didn't mean driving other cars on the parent policy)

Its since become clear he wants a garage like policy, but without the cost. So the whole parents car is really a miss-direction.

it is not misdirection, i do not need a garage type policy if i did i would buy one, im being refused third party extension on the basis my previous occupation was in the motor trade, i am named on my mothers policy at the moment but it added cost to her premium which should be unnessisary as i have my own policy, i have 11 years ncb and a full licence and as i stated most of my friends can drive any car on extension with the owners permission, i only need to drive her car handfull of times a year but other family members have cars bigger than mine that would be handy in certain circumstances or my car is out of action but i cant drive them because i was refused third party extension, if you cant see the inconvienence of this maybe you have never needed to borrow a car

yamaha4life

just to clarify a few things i do not need a garage policy, i dont have a garage or rent a work space, its been about 3 years since my occupation in the motor trade has ceased but i have remained with the same insurance company because A) the renewal price was cheaper than any one else they insure cars up to 20yrs old.

now before i got my job in the motor trade i had third party extension driving other cars with this insurance company. Now heres another kicker even thought i changed my occupation to my new one my policy documents came out stating my occupation as my privious one, to be honest i dont think they belived i had changed jobs, so i rang and had it out with them and as i stated before they said due to my previous connection with the motor trade they cant give me third party extension. i cant make sense of it i probably will change this year to another company

beauf

yamaha4life wrote: »

it is not misdirection, i do not need a garage type policy if i did i would buy one, im being refused third party extension on the basis my previous occupation was in the motor trade, i am named on my mothers policy at the moment but it added cost to her premium which should be unnessisary as i have my own policy, i have 11 years ncb and a full licence and as i stated most of my friends can drive any car on extension with the owners permission, i only need to drive her car handfull of times a year but other family members have cars bigger than mine that would be handy in certain circumstances or my car is out of action but i cant drive them because i was refused third party extension, if you cant see the inconvienence of this maybe you have never needed to borrow a car

Maybe but that how it comes across even if you don't have any intentions.

I'm named on other family cars and obviously the other halves policy. Adds very little if not nothing. I wouldn't expect yours to add much either. We also have family coming back on holidays from abroad and can add them for free to any of our policies for a limited number of days for free. We do this for about 10 days every year on different cars.

When I say adds little it might be that the policy isn't the cheapest quote I get every year, probably under 40 in the difference. But not all companies allow this flexibility.

I guess our way is adding specific drivers to specific policies. It's not as undefined as you want. But it's gives us temp comp cover rather than 3rd party.

None of ours are over 2L though. No performance cars etc. Add I said we've been refused that in the past.

SCOOP 64

coylemj wrote: »

+1 Aviva and Liberty currently have that condition. In order for your 'driving other cars' to be in effect when you borrow a car, there must be a current policy out for that car, whether it covers you or not.

Aviva conditions for 'driving other cars' ....

This cover will only apply if –

4. a current certificate of insurance has been issued and remains in force on the Private car being driven under the Driving other cars cover provided;

Liberty ....

4 there is a current insurance policy in place in another person’s name that covers the other car

I asked this question to Aviva RSA insurance and reply was this.

Thank you for your email.

Please be advised that driving other cars is a benefit for the policy holder only, and does not extend to the named drivers.
As you said yourself the car has to be Taxed and NCT and although we would prefer the car has its own insurance, it will be covered under your own insurance for Third Party protection during this time.


Kind regards

Eggs For Dinner

Aviva and RSA are two different insurers

SCOOP 64

Eggs For Dinner wrote: »

Aviva and RSA are two different insurers

but the policy's RSA through Aviva?

Eggs For Dinner

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

but the policy's RSA through Aviva?

Who is the insurer named on your certificate or disc?

SCOOP 64

Eggs For Dinner wrote: »

Who is the insurer named on your certificate or disc?

RSA, but with Aviva.

Eggs For Dinner

RSA is Royal Sun Alliance, Aviva and RSA are competitors. They don't place business with eachother the way brokers or underwriting agencies do.

SCOOP 64

Eggs For Dinner wrote: »

RSA is Royal Sun Alliance, Aviva and RSA are competitors. They don't place business with eachother the way brokers or underwriting agencies do.

My wifes with bank of Ireland car insurance, policy also RSA, all certs, disc headed RSA also.

Eggs For Dinner

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

My wifes with bank of Ireland car insurance, policy also RSA, all certs, disc headed RSA also.

Bank of Ireland are agents for RSA.

Sorry, I'm not trying to be argumentative, just something isn't clear about the way you have your policy arranged

SCOOP 64

Eggs For Dinner wrote: »

Bank of Ireland are agents for RSA.

Sorry, I'm not trying to be argumentative, just something isn't clear about the way you have your policy arranged

No thats fine, it never accured to me about RSA/Aviva insurance, i pay Aviva, quote from Aviva, but all insurance documents RSA.

coylemj

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

My wifes with bank of Ireland car insurance, policy also RSA, all certs, disc headed RSA also.

I don't understand why Aviva are involved but it sounds like your policy is with RSA.

In which case the requirement that the borrowed car has a policy of its own would not apply when you are using 'driving other cars' cover as RSA do not impose this condition.

But note that every policy of motor insurance is governed by the policy document with individual variations/endorsements noted in the schedule and cert. they send you on each renewal. All of which is to say that no matter what they tell you on the phone or in an e-mail, the policy document rules.