Self contained unit in primary residence

landlord2020

I have a self contained unit that is part of my primary residence that I intend to rent under the "rent a room" scheme


As per this information :

Self-contained units: If you rent out a self-contained unit in your home, such as a converted garage attached to your home or a basement flat, the rights and obligations under residential tenancies legislation apply to you. For example, you are obliged to register the tenancy with the Residential Tenancies Board (RTB), provide a rent book to the tenant and ensure that the accommodation provided meets minimum physical standards.

The residential tenancies legislation provides for security of tenure for tenants. These provisions are in Part 4 of the Residential Tenancies Act 2004. However, if the self-contained flat or apartment was originally part of the main house, you can choose to opt out of these provisions. This option is available under Section 25 of the Act. You must give the tenant notice in writing, before the start of the tenancy, if you wish to take this option.

I will register the tenancy and give the tenant written notice of my intention to use Section 25 limiting their security of tenure and declaring a preferred notice period.


My question is .. can I decline HAP ?

3DataModem

My understanding is that if the tenancy is not covered by the RTB, then HAP cannot apply.

Wabbit Ears

Regardless, blatant refusal on the grounds of HAP would be completely foolhardy. You can , of course, do it because of HAP, but there are hundreds of reasons why you can also refuse that isn't asking for trouble.

C3PO

My understanding is that you cannot rent a self contained unit as part of the Rent a Room Scheme?

Ray Palmer

Can't be rented out under rent a room and will have to be rented out and taxed like a standard rental.
The planning on the property probably doesn't allow you rent it out too.

4ensic15

If it is integral to the dwelling rent-a-room applies. but if it is in a distinct building such as a mews which is not physically connected to the house then rent-a-room does not apply.
If it is self-contained then RTB applies. It is easy to avoid letting HAP tenants in at the outset by reference checks, payslips and interview. The real trouble starts when an existing tenant wants HAP. The Section 25 procedure simply shortens the notice period but you still have to go through the dispute resolution process of the RTB for a determination order to get rid of the tenant.

C3PO

4ensic15 wrote: »

If it is integral to the dwelling rent-a-room applies. but if it is in a distinct building such as a mews which is not physically connected to the house then rent-a-room does not apply.

I stand corrected - thanks!

https://www.revenue.ie/en/personal-tax-credits-reliefs-and-exemptions/land-and-property/rent-a-room-relief/what-type-of-residence-qualifies.aspx

landlord2020

3DataModem wrote: »

My understanding is that if the tenancy is not covered by the RTB, then HAP cannot apply.

The tenancy has to be registered with the RTB as per the quote in the OP

Does the opposite apply : if the tenancy is covered by the RTB then HAP must be accepted even in the "rent a room" scheme ?


BTW I understand ways to avoid tenants with HAP using references etc .. but I want to know what the law is WRT the "rent a room" scheme

4ensic15

landlord2020 wrote: »

The tenancy has to be registered with the RTB as per the quote in the OP

Does the opposite apply : if the tenancy is covered by the RTB then HAP must be accepted even in the "rent a room" scheme ?


BTW I understand ways to avoid tenants with HAP using references etc .. but I want to know what the law is WRT the "rent a room" scheme

The rent-a-room scheme is a Revenue concept. It relates to the taxation of the income only. As far as HAP is concerned the only distinction is between situations where the landlord lives in the dwelling and where the landlord does not. A self-contained unit is a dwelling in its own right and the landlord does not live in it even if it was once part of his main dwelling. The issue of declining HAP is an equality issue. Equality does not extend to house shares but does extend to other forms of accommodation.

landlord2020

4ensic15 wrote: »

A self-contained unit is a dwelling in its own right and the landlord does not live in it even if it was once part of his main dwelling. The issue of declining HAP is an equality issue. Equality does not extend to house shares but does extend to other forms of accommodation.

thank you ..is this your interpretation or fact ( a link ) ?

it seems to me that a self contained unit only qualifies for "rent a room" when it is IN a house ( and thus electricity is shared .. hot water is shared .. heating is shared .. etc etc )

therefore HAP should not apply due to the shared resources and narrow definition test already passed by "rent a room" .. it is by definition a house share.

4ensic15

landlord2020 wrote: »

thank you ..is this your interpretation or fact ( a link ) ?

it seems to me that a self contained unit only qualifies for "rent a room" when it is IN a house ( and thus electricity is shared .. hot water is shared .. heating is shared .. etc etc )

therefore HAP should not apply due to the shared resources and narrow definition test already passed by "rent a room" .. it is by definition a house share.

A self contained unit is just that. It qualifies for rent a room if it is in the same building as the main dwelling. That is the revenue interpretation. It does not require the sharing of any facilities. It can have its own water supply, electric supply etc. The Revenue don't ask.
The use if shared facilities does not make one out of two dwellings. That has been found by the RTB in the Zhang case and upheld by the High Court.
The equality situation is based on the fact that if you live in the same dwelling the existing occupiers can decide on who may live with him.

landlord2020

4ensic15 wrote: »

The use of shared facilities does not make one out of two dwellings. That has been found by the RTB in the Zhang case and upheld by the High Court.
The equality situation is based on the fact that if you live in the same dwelling the existing occupiers can decide on who may live with him.

When is a dwelling 2 dwellings if all that separates them is a locked door.

If I unlocked the door is it a single dwelling again ?

Graham

Mod Note

OK folks, we're into the realms of legal advice here. As per the forum charter, don't do it.

OP seek professional advice.

Legal advice is not permitted on Boards. Here in A&P though there’s a lot of discussion about legalities surrounding property, so the rules are as follows. You can offer suggestions and point to a relevant law or clause by linking to it. You can offer opinion as to whether or not something may or may not be legal, but make it clear it’s your opinion. You may not offer your opinion as expert fact – we can’t verify professional qualifications or real life expertise. When you feel someone is wrong regarding a legal clause, either civilly debunk it on thread with your own supporting links, or report to a moderator as necessary.

4ensic15

landlord2020 wrote: »

When is a dwelling 2 dwellings if all that separates them is a locked door.

If I unlocked the door is it a single dwelling again ?

Your original question was about a self-contained unit. Are you still talking about a self-contained unit?

landlord2020

4ensic15 wrote: »

Your original question was about a self-contained unit. Are you still talking about a self-contained unit?

Yes .. a converted garage intrinsic to the home, that has bedrooms over it and a door from the hall straight into it. One door which I will probably lock but will use if I need access.



as per the quote in the OP from citizens information website re "rent a room" a "self-contained unit in your home, such as a converted garage attached to your home or a basement flat"

4ensic15

As already pointed out rent-a-room is a tax concept. Self-contained is a tenancy concept. They do not always overlap. If you let a self-contained unit all tenancy rules apply.

landlord2020

4ensic15 wrote: »

As already pointed out rent-a-room is a tax concept. Self-contained is a tenancy concept. They do not always overlap. If you let a self-contained unit all tenancy rules apply.

incorrect .. exceptions to tenancy law are defined for self contained flats or apartments that were originally part of the main house.



"The residential tenancies legislation provides for security of tenure for tenants. These provisions are in Part 4 of the Residential Tenancies Act 2004. However, if the self-contained flat or apartment was originally part of the main house, you can choose to opt out of these provisions. This option is available under Section 25 of the Act. You must give the tenant notice in writing, before the start of the tenancy, if you wish to take this option."

4ensic15

landlord2020 wrote: »

incorrect .. exceptions to tenancy law are defined for self contained flats or apartments that were originally part of the main house.



"The residential tenancies legislation provides for security of tenure for tenants. These provisions are in Part 4 of the Residential Tenancies Act 2004. However, if the self-contained flat or apartment was originally part of the main house, you can choose to opt out of these provisions. This option is available under Section 25 of the Act. You must give the tenant notice in writing, before the start of the tenancy, if you wish to take this option."

Before you get that far you are already dealing with a self-contained unit subject to the residential tenancies Act. That is part of the tenancy law and only allows a modification of the notice periods and part 4. Nothing else.