Interesting times and places pertaining to the apparitions of Our Lady.

realitykeeper

The apparitions of Our Lady are believed by some but not by many. And, those of us who do believe, tend to be scepticle and discerning in that we believe in some apparitions but not necessarily all. As a believer, with the above perspective, I find the context of the apparitions I considder genuine, to be very interesting.

Both Fatima and Lourdres were once occupied by the Arabs for example. Indeed, Fatima is the name of one of the daughters of the person Muslims believe was a Prophet (Mohammad). The town of Fatima was named after a Muslim Princess who converted to Catholicism. The town of Fatima is also located near an important fortress of the Portuguese Knights Templar. Portugal is the only country in Europe where the Knights Templar was never completely distroyed but continued to exist (in a different guise) for hundreds of years after it was crushed in the rest of Europe. It was the King of France (who was heavily indebted to the Knights Templar) who moved against the Knights on Friday 13th, 1307. The apparition at Fatima happened (from a believers perspective) during WWI and that war was referred to by Our Lady, as were other events which followed.

The apparitions at Lourdres happened in 1858, again during interesting times in French history. Napoleon III was busy protecting the Papal states in Italy around that time. It was also a few years before France lost the Franco Prussian war and Napoleon III was forced into exile.

In Ireland, the apparition at Knock in 1879 coincided with a localized famine and preceded the establishment of the Land League by two months. The Land League was founded in Castlebar. Both Castlebar and Claremorris (where thousands gathered to demand land rights) are very close to Knock and of couse the events around Captain Boycott in Co Mayo, followed shortly after, in or around 1880. It is interesting, that the "Land League" has reimerged in recent times due to the housing crisis, which is collectively of our own making.

The apparitions in Medjugorje (1981) preceded the war in the Balkans by just a few years and I recall the year Yugoslavia hosted the Eurovision in 1990. Before the voting began, the host country showed a short film depicting Yugoslavia as a country in harmony. This was of course an imposed condition where reluctant and differentiated people were forced to lived under the boot of Communism. Soon after Comminism collapsed and the war in Yugoslavia began in 1991.

In 1981, the apparitions of Our Lady of Kibeho began. Kibeho is in Rwanda and 1981 was a time of rising tensions between the HUTU and Tutsi. The visionaries all said they saw Rwanda decending into violence, hatred, dismembered corpses and distruction. A few years later, in 1994, the genocide in Rwanda happened.

Therefore I would be of the view that these apparitions of Our Lady and the messages given to the visionaries are worthy of our attention. Am I wrong?

martinedwards

As a sceptic, I'd say that any point in history could be pivotal.

for instance, George Best Played for Man united in 1963. only a few years later, the troubles in Northern Ireland (BEST'S BIRTH PLACE!!!!!!) started.

then within 40 years there were two players in the Ireland Rugby team with the same surname. Coincidence?

you see it's just too easy......

My more serious point is, if God were to send one of the heavenly celebrities to do a personal appearance, why would he do it way out in the sticks where only a few kids would see it?

realitykeeper

martinedwards wrote: »

My more serious point is, if God were to send one of the heavenly celebrities to do a personal appearance, why would he do it way out in the sticks where only a few kids would see it?

... because God requires us to have faith. Faith is necessary because in order to differentiate good people from bad people, the good must do what is right because it is right and not because of the carrot or the stick.

Matthew 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits.

Bunny Colvin

realitykeeper wrote: »

Therefore I would be of the view that these apparitions of Our Lady and the messages given to the visionaries are worthy of our attention. Am I wrong?

There were no apparitions. So yes, you're wrong.

c.p.w.g.w

Is the irony of the OP's Username not lost...4 posts in

kelly1

I'd say Fatima, Lourdes and Knock are "worthy of belief". I'm very skeptical about Medjugorje and I don't know anything about Kibeho.

I think it's very interesting that in July 1917 Our Lady predicted WWI would soon end but a greater war (WWII) would break out during the pontificate of Pius XI. She also predicted the Russian Revolution, which broke out in October 1917. Pretty amazing if you ask me. Kinda hard to predict a secret revolution.

kneemos

kelly1 wrote: »

I'd say Fatima, Lourdes and Knock are "worthy of belief". I'm very skeptical about Medjugorje and I don't know anything about Kibeho.

I think it's very interesting that in July 1917 Our Lady predicted WWI would soon end but a greater war (WWII) would break out during the pontificate of Pius XI. She also predicted the Russian Revolution, which broke out in October 1917. Pretty amazing if you ask me. Kinda hard to predict a secret revolution.

Wouldn't go holding the Fatima secrets with any kind of credibility in fairness.

realitykeeper

kneemos wrote: »

Wouldn't go holding the Fatima secrets with any kind of credibility in fairness.

The last secret has different interpretations, one being the emergence of Communism (not the historical emergence but sometime in the future) another being some sort of global war, nation against nation etc. I think Our Lady of Fatima referred to the apocalypse in reference to the third secret and if so, that would imply much is a stake.

In most situations, the odds of something going catastrophically wrong may be slight and this gives rise to normalcy bias. For a lot of people who believe a great upheaval is coming, prepping is the answer but Our Lady recommends the Rosary of the seven sorrows and mortification of the flesh. In other words, what matters is the next life and not this one. This is kind of hard to take for those of us who like being alive and who enjoy life. I think our love of this life must seem like the beggar asking for change. We are setting our sights rather low.

Anyway, regarding the apparitions at Kibeho, one of the visionaries attributed this statement to Our Lady:

" ... If I am now turning to the parish of Kibeho it does not mean I am only concerned for Kibeho or for the Diocese of Butare, or for Rwanda, or for the whole of Africa. I am concerned with and am turning to the whole world."

Like everywhere in Rwanda, Kibeho was impacted by the genocide of 1994 but it was also noted for reprisals by the RPF following the genocide in 1995. If what happened in Kibeho was a microcosm of the world in the future, then this is something people need to prepare for on a spiritual level.

kneemos

realitykeeper wrote: »

The last secret has different interpretations, one being the emergence of Communism (not the historical emergence but sometime in the future) another being some sort of global war, nation against nation etc. I think Our Lady of Fatima referred to the apocalypse in reference to the third secret and if so, that would imply much is a stake.

In most situations, the odds of something going catastrophically wrong may be slight and this gives rise to normalcy bias. For a lot of people who believe a great upheaval is coming, prepping is the answer but Our Lady recommends the Rosary of the seven sorrows and mortification of the flesh. In other words, what matters is the next life and not this one. This is kind of hard to take for those of us who like being alive and who enjoy life. I think our love of this life must seem like the beggar asking for change. We are setting our sights rather low.

Anyway, regarding the apparitions at Kibeho, one of the visionaries attributed this statement to Our Lady:

" ... If I am now turning to the parish of Kibeho it does not mean I am only concerned for Kibeho or for the Diocese of Butare, or for Rwanda, or for the whole of Africa. I am concerned with and am turning to the whole world."

Like everywhere in Rwanda, Kibeho was impacted by the genocide of 1994 but it was also noted for reprisals by the RPF following the genocide in 1995. If what happened in Kibeho was a microcosm of the world in the future, then this is something people need to prepare for on a spiritual level.

You can fit a square peg in a round hole if you bash it hard enough.
The "predictions"of WW1 and two was written in 1940...?
The vision of hell is pretty standard fare.

If belief is about faith why the apparitions anyway?

realitykeeper

kneemos wrote: »

If belief is about faith why the apparitions anyway?

To warn.

martinedwards

See, I go by biblical precident.

all through the Old Testament, and into the new, if God had a message for humanity he sent either an angel .... that is a heavenly creature as a messenger, or he sent knowledge to a prophet.

the idea of communication between the living and the dead?

that's necromancy, which is expressly forbidden in many places in the Bible.

the whole theology of Mary post Jesus' birth is a big problem for many people who believe what the bible says, rather than legends that grew up afterwards.

kelly1

kneemos wrote: »

Wouldn't go holding the Fatima secrets with any kind of credibility in fairness.

Why? Because of the supernatural aspect?

kneemos

kelly1 wrote: »

Why? Because of the supernatural aspect?

As I said above the time they were written and the vagueness.

realitykeeper

martinedwards wrote: »

See, I go by biblical precident.

all through the Old Testament, and into the new, if God had a message for humanity he sent either an angel .... that is a heavenly creature as a messenger, or he sent knowledge to a prophet.

the idea of communication between the living and the dead?

that's necromancy, which is expressly forbidden in many places in the Bible.

the whole theology of Mary post Jesus' birth is a big problem for many people who believe what the bible says, rather than legends that grew up afterwards.

You seem to be referring to seances which I agree are nonsense.

Anyway, I do believe the apparitions of Our Lady are for real and that they are happening because they are necessary. Precidents are a childish tool used in the law courts of man. The laws of God are not set by the precidents of others and in any case the Mother of the Word was not even born for most of the old testament.

branie2

How about the "apparitions" at Ballinspittle?

Thinkingaboutit

Bunny Colvin wrote: »

There were no apparitions. So yes, you're wrong.

A great certainty over what people at great distance of time and place believed they saw. Having a time machine and a drone is fairly neat. :pac: