Contract rearing???

Tsully2k18

Hi all,

Just wondering, anyone here involved in contract rearing? Recently moved home and the expense to start up milking again is too much, so I was told next best thing is this, I’ve 50 acres around the house and 25 a mile away so I could 70 easily, as far as I know it’s a €1 a day a head but could be anything up to €1.50 a day in winter, is this right? Sounds too good to be true, anyone involved would love to hear ye’re opinion, thanks in advance...

Grueller

Tsully2k18 wrote: »

Hi all,

Just wondering, anyone here involved in contract rearing? Recently moved home and the expense to start up milking again is too much, so I was told next best thing is this, I’ve 50 acres around the house and 25 a mile away so I could 70 easily, as far as I know it’s a €1 a day a head but could be anything up to €1.50 a day in winter, is this right? Sounds too good to be true, anyone involved would love to hear ye’re opinion, thanks in advance...

Too good to be true for the dairy farmer. You will get €400 -€425 a year per heifer. You have all of the work and expense from this. The dairy farmer keeps a cow that will put an extra €400-500 in his her pocket profit per year while each heifer will leave you maybe €100 per head per year at best.
Around here I would get €280-€300 per year rental. No work, no expense. Contract rearing would need to be at €1.30 for grazing and €1.80 for winter to consider it.

Tsully2k18

Grueller wrote: »

Too good to be true for the dairy farmer. You will get €400 -€425 a year per heifer. You have all of the work and expense from this. The dairy farmer keeps a cow that will put an extra €400-500 in his her pocket profit per year while each heifer will leave you maybe €100 per head per year at best.
Around here I would get €280-€300 per year rental. No work, no expense. Contract rearing would need to be at €1.30 for grazing and €1.80 for winter to consider it.

Only reason I’m asking my neighbor is at it, his getting €1 a day grazing and €1.80 housed, the farmer pays for vet calls, ration, dosing and insimination, I know my neighbor cuts the silage but that seems to be his only expense, he put out very little fertilizer this year, the bank did say that letting your land is number 3 on the list of farming.
1-dairy
2-contract rearing
3-letting
4-beef
5-suckers

Keepgrowing

Tsully2k18 wrote: »

Hi all,

Just wondering, anyone here involved in contract rearing? Recently moved home and the expense to start up milking again is too much, so I was told next best thing is this, I’ve 50 acres around the house and 25 a mile away so I could 70 easily, as far as I know it’s a €1 a day a head but could be anything up to €1.50 a day in winter, is this right? Sounds too good to be true, anyone involved would love to hear ye’re opinion, thanks in advance...

I’m involved in it. We have heifers being contract reared. We rear our own spring born heifers but get our autumn born heifer calves reared by contract.

They leave here after weaning, on meal, dehorned and vaccinated. We supply A.I, vaccine and mop up bull.

Rearer supplies all feed, dosing, vet, tb test etc. The rate in €1.30 per day till they return one month pre calving. He weighs monthly to assess targets. He makes meal feeding decisions based on their performance.

Paid monthly by dd

jaymla627

Tsully2k18 wrote: »

Only reason I’m asking my neighbor is at it, his getting €1 a day grazing and €1.80 housed, the farmer pays for vet calls, ration, dosing and insimination, I know my neighbor cuts the silage but that seems to be his only expense, he put out very little fertilizer this year, the bank did say that letting your land is number 3 on the list of farming.
1-dairy
2-contract rearing
3-letting
4-beef
5-suckers

I’d have it at number one if you get a long-term lease (tax-free income)with a good tenant and sfp is returned as part of lease-agreement, up to 40k a year tax-free and the option of taking up employment outside the farm

Mooooo

jaymla627 wrote: »

I’d have it at number one if you get a long-term lease (tax-free income)with a good tenant and sfp is returned as part of lease-agreement, up to 40k a year tax-free and the option of taking up employment outside the farm

Thought the tax free amount is capped at 20k?

wrangler

Mooooo wrote: »

Thought the tax free amount is capped at 20k?

€30000 tax free on a 10yr lease.
€40000 tax free on a 15yr lease

OH and I are entitled to €60000 tax free on a 10yr lease as we're joint owners

Gawddawggonnit

wrangler wrote: »

€30000 tax free on a 10yr lease.
€40000 tax free on a 15yr lease

OH and I are entitled to €60000 tax free on a 10yr lease as we're joint owners

Who’d be farming?

Grueller

Tsully2k18 wrote: »

Only reason I’m asking my neighbor is at it, his getting €1 a day grazing and €1.80 housed, the farmer pays for vet calls, ration, dosing and insimination, I know my neighbor cuts the silage but that seems to be his only expense, he put out very little fertilizer this year, the bank did say that letting your land is number 3 on the list of farming.
1-dairy
2-contract rearing
3-letting
4-beef
5-suckers

Number 5 there is what is known as a Freudian slip. Anyone at sucklers (myself included) is a sucker.

jaymla627

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Who’d be farming?

You get a bad tenant that pockets the sfp money due back as part of rent and dosent cough up land rent either the novelty would wear of too, can’t see the armchair landlords getting much joy out of cap 2020 either

alps

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Who’d be farming?

It's absolutely incredible, if yourself and OH have the capability of earning back up to the marginal tax rate in other spheres...

wrangler

jaymla627 wrote: »

You get a bad tenant that pockets the sfp money due back as part of rent and dosent cough up land rent either the novelty would wear of too, can’t see the armchair landlords getting much joy out of cap 2020 either

You can tie it up so the rent is paid early in the year, leasing is the only option when there's no one to take over.
It's only fair that the farmer gets the entitlements in the next CAP reform and it'll disappoint me to forfeit them, It wasn't bad to get it for twenty years.
No option now but to carry on

Grueller

wrangler wrote: »

You can tie it up so the rent is paid early in the year, leasing is the only option when there's no one to take over.
It's only fair that the farmer gets the entitlements in the next CAP reform and it'll disappoint me to forfeit them, It wasn't bad to get it for twenty years.
No option now but to carry on

To be fair to you wrangler that is a very magnanimous post. Many would begrudge the loss of them and begrudge them to the farmer.

wrangler

Grueller wrote: »

To be fair to you wrangler that is a very magnanimous post. Many would begrudge the loss of them and begrudge them to the farmer.

Ironically the land I leased without entitlements made far more than the land I leased with entitlements.
So some of the subs will probably come to the landlord

squinn2912

Surely tb is a massive risk for contract rearing? I've heard that a lot of the dairy farmers try to persuade rearers to do away with their own stock and have only heifers.

Keepgrowing

squinn2912 wrote: »

Surely tb is a massive risk for contract rearing? I've heard that a lot of the dairy farmers try to persuade rearers to do away with their own stock and have only heifers.

Wouldn’t dream of sending heifers to a farm with other stock

squinn2912

Keepgrowing wrote: »

Wouldn’t dream of sending heifers to a farm with other stock

Are there many men who are happy to get rid of all of their own animals to do the contract rearing?

Tsully2k18

Keepgrowing wrote: »

Wouldn’t dream of sending heifers to a farm with other stock

There’s no stock on the farm, if ye read the start I said has any one done contract rearing? I said it’s too expensive for milking so was thinking about this

Keepgrowing

Tsully2k18 wrote: »

There’s no stock on the farm, if ye read the start I said has any one done contract rearing? I said it’s too expensive for milking so was thinking about this

I was replying to another poster

Tsully2k18

Keepgrowing wrote: »

I was replying to another poster

I meant to reply to the other one aswell😆😆😆 sorry

squinn2912

Apologies. Just widening the discussion a little out of curiosity. I know some guys who do contract rearing but it's along with their other enterprises. Don't know what they get etc but it's meant to be a good turn if you can keep tb at bay. Might work ok for anyone with suckler to beef system with an out farm for heifers. Then that wouldn't be ideal for the dairy man.

Tsully2k18

squinn2912 wrote: »

Apologies. Just widening the discussion a little out of curiosity. I know some guys who do contract rearing but it's along with their other enterprises. Don't know what they get etc but it's meant to be a good turn if you can keep tb at bay. Might work ok for anyone with suckler to beef system with an out farm for heifers. Then that wouldn't be ideal for the dairy man.

I must be missing something, if I took 70 heifers at €1.30 a day that’s €91 a day €637 a week, if there’s grazing for 8 months that €20,400 and let’s say €1.80 a day housed €126 a day €882 a week €17,500 for that period that’s roughly €38,000 for a year, fair enough you have to do silage and other expenses but if my maths are right that sounds ok, that’s what my neighbor is doing, farmer supplies ration,AI dosing

mycro2013

There is good money to be got if you have the right farmer supplying the stock.

Know of few boys doing it and both the contract rearer and farmer supplying the animals swear by it.

Key benefits from anyone doing it that I've talked
are.
1. Eliminates the need to have capital tied up in stock.
2. Guaranteed income
3. Surplus fodder can be baled and sold generating extra income.

I know it won't suit everyone but it's a system worth considering on its merits.

On the renting the farm to obtain the tax free allowances. It has been pointed out to lads considering it to make sure the farmer renting pays for each year as agreed under the contract. Eg. Renting for 5 but only pay for the first three. As this will result in the owner being liable for a substantial tax bill as the terms of the contract have been broken.

Gawddawggonnit

alps wrote: »

It's absolutely incredible, if yourself and OH have the capability of earning back up to the marginal tax rate in other spheres...

€600k in the retirement fund be nice...great country, in fairness.

alps

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

€600k in the retirement fund be nice...great country, in fairness.

Not exactly...600k retirement fund would inly give you 24k/annum until you Koch the bucket...

This way you get the 600k and get to keep the asset as well....win win..

Bass Reeves

jaymla627 wrote: »

You get a bad tenant that pockets the sfp money due back as part of rent and dosent cough up land rent either the novelty would wear of too, can’t see the armchair landlords getting much joy out of cap 2020 either

As well you have to pay the PRSI and USC on the money wheather you get paid or not

alps wrote: »

It's absolutely incredible, if yourself and OH have the capability of earning back up to the marginal tax rate in other spheres...

Not really a single person hits the marginal rate at about 35K you take your tax credits off the total tax bill. Average industrial wage is about 38K at present. For a couple with allowances shared one person in a good job earning 50K+ and spouse even on minimum wage working full time will hit 20K

squinn2912 wrote: »

Surely tb is a massive risk for contract rearing? I've heard that a lot of the dairy farmers try to persuade rearers to do away with their own stock and have only heifers.

It really only suits lads holding of less than 40 acres. It a bit messy as well as you are very heavily stocked in the autumn and lightly stocked in spring when you have loads of grass. Selling silage is only break even at best. It might seem big money but you have deduct costs. If you were tied into a contract with weights targets last year you would have a nice meal bill.

wrangler

Bass Reeves wrote: »

As well you have to pay the PRSI and USC on the money wheather you get paid or not




Not really a single person hits the marginal rate at about 35K you take your tax credits off the total tax bill. Average industrial wage is about 38K at present. For a couple with allowances shared one person in a good job earning 50K+ and spouse even on minimum wage working full time will hit 20K



It really only suits lads holding of less than 40 acres. It a bit messy as well as you are very heavily stocked in the autumn and lightly stocked in spring when you have loads of grass. Selling silage is only break even at best. It might seem big money but you have deduct costs. If you were tied into a contract with weights targets last year you would have a nice meal bill.

Contract rearing would mix well with sheep though, but you have to get the right dairy farmer, I used to set my shed in the bad old days and the farmers I met then would make me wary of ever doing it.
A famous contract rearer claimed he was giving it up this year, I wonder did he.
Getting the land rent tax free is a nice bonus, it would've been nicely taxed in our situation

mycro2013

The only problem is that the schemes success may be it's downfall. As land which may previously have been considered for forestry and tax purposes has been rented out under the scheme.

Alot of forestry companies are having a hard sale to lads to plant. And Ireland's emissions targets may limit the schemes viability.

alps

Bass Reeves wrote: »

As well you have to pay the PRSI and USC on the money wheather you get paid or not




Not really a single person hits the marginal rate at about 35K you take your tax credits off the total tax bill. Average industrial wage is about 38K at present. For a couple with allowances shared one person in a good job earning 50K+ and spouse even on minimum wage working full time will hit 20K

Tax credits are taken from the total bill, but that bill will not include any liability from land lease, as it is free within the thresholds. Liable to PRSI and USC yes..

Bass Reeves

alps wrote: »

Tax credits are taken from the total bill, but that bill will not include any liability from land lease, as it is free within the thresholds. Liable to PRSI and USC yes..

Even if not paid

Panch18

Bass Reeves wrote: »

As well you have to pay the PRSI and USC on the money wheather you get paid or not




Not really a single person hits the marginal rate at about 35K you take your tax credits off the total tax bill. Average industrial wage is about 38K at present. For a couple with allowances shared one person in a good job earning 50K+ and spouse even on minimum wage working full time will hit 20K

ill.

The fact is that the tax free allowances for land rental are better than winning the lottery

It’s a ridiculously one sided tax benefit where the fools working the land really are fools

Now it’s one thing a farmer retiring and getting the allowance, I can handle that, but what’s happening around here now is the auld lads are dying off and the next generation are inheriting the land, leasing it out tax free, whilst having the good paying jobs already. Now that is really like winning the lotto without ever having made any contribution whatsoever to farming. An absolute disgrace

squinn2912

Panch18 wrote: »

The fact is that the tax free allowances for land rental are better than winning the lottery

It’s a ridiculously one sided tax benefit where the fools working the land really are fools

Now it’s one thing a farmer retiring and getting the allowance, I can handle that, but what’s happening around here now is the auld lads are dying off and the next generation are inheriting the land, leasing it out tax free, whilst having the good paying jobs already. Now that is really like winning the lotto without ever having made any contribution whatsoever to farming. An absolute disgrace

Why is it a disgrace? Surely it’s a lad’s own business what he does with an inherited farm. If he inherited a pub and leased it out to someone would that be a disgrace? Not really his problem if he gets it tax free. I’m open to rationale but I’d think he’s entitled to do what he feels is best value to him

briangriffin

squinn2912 wrote: »

Why is it a disgrace? Surely it’s a lad’s own business what he does with an inherited farm. If he inherited a pub and leased it out to someone would that be a disgrace? Not really his problem if he gets it tax free. I’m open to rationale but I’d think he’s entitled to do what he feels is best value to him

Id tend to agree. From 40 to 70 acres of land its hard to see any money in any farming enterprise, maybe if more small time sucklers/ beef farmers stopped selling beef at a loss to the factories and rented their land we might see a lift in price. As a teagasc advisor once told me when I asked how can I make money from my small farm" rent it to your local dairy/ tillage man and stop being a busy fool"
.

Grueller

briangriffin wrote: »

Id tend to agree. From 40 to 70 acres of land its hard to see any money in any farming enterprise, maybe if more small time sucklers/ beef farmers stopped selling beef at a loss to the factories and rented their land we might see a lift in price. As a teagasc advisor once told me when I asked how can I make money from my small farm" rent it to your local dairy/ tillage man and stop being a busy fool"
.

Beef is a commodity. We are on world price so anything Irish farmers do to tighten supplies will make next to no difference.
My own plan is to sit absolutely tight at my current numbers and enterprise until 2020 cap reform and then evaluate the best way to maximise income from schemes. If there is no scheme for sucklers coming down the line then I think they are a dead duck east of the Shannon. 600,000 extra dairy calves on stream next year puts a final nail in the hopes of a price rise for beef.
I am an absolute cheerleader for sucklers but can see no future in them for myself as a nearly young farmer.

valtra2

Grueller wrote: »

Beef is a commodity. We are on world price so anything Irish farmers do to tighten supplies will make next to no difference.
My own plan is to sit absolutely tight at my current numbers and enterprise until 2020 cap reform and then evaluate the best way to maximise income from schemes. If there is no scheme for sucklers coming down the line then I think they are a dead duck east of the Shannon. 600,000 extra dairy calves on stream next year puts a final nail in the hopes of a price rise for beef.
I am an absolute cheerleader for sucklers but can see no future in them for myself as a nearly young farmer.

In the exact same situation as yourself and waiting on 2020. 70 acers here with no room for expansion so dairy out of question. Have been asked to contract rear by a few ppl and I think it is the way I am leaning now.

Grueller

valtra2 wrote: »

In the exact same situation as yourself and waiting on 2020. 70 acers here with no room for expansion so dairy out of question. Have been asked to contract rear by a few ppl and I think it is the way I am leaning now.

I have 60 acres in an outfarm. I also have a shed that could hold 100 heifers on slats that is 30 feet from my other sheds. I am seriously considering contract rearing on these facilities and keeping my sucklers in reduced numbers on the home block. The stock would never mix.
The big con that I have is chasing payment from some of the gangsters you could encounter. I would look to get it written in the contract that no payment for two consecutive months means I sell heifers as they are in my herd. As far as I know B&B movements are a thing of the past now.

Panch18

squinn2912 wrote: »

Why is it a disgrace? Surely it’s a lad’s own business what he does with an inherited farm. If he inherited a pub and leased it out to someone would that be a disgrace? Not really his problem if he gets it tax free. I’m open to rationale but I’d think he’s entitled to do what he feels is best value to him

I’m not saying it’s a disgrace they are letting it, far from it

What I’m saying is that it is a disgrace that people who haven’t set foot on land for years are able to get an inheritance and lease it out tax free.

Why on earth should it be tax free?? Why should the fool of a farmer pay tax on any money he makes from actually working the land while some ****er in Dublin or cork who hasn’t seen the place since he/she left for collage in the 90’s get a massive income from it tax free

That’s what is a disgrace

If he inherited a pub or a house and rented them out he’d be paying tax on that rental income, but not on land, that’s my issue

Say my name

Panch18 wrote: »

I’m not saying it’s a disgrace they are letting it, far from it

What I’m saying is that it is a disgrace that people who haven’t set foot on land for years are able to get an inheritance and lease it out tax free.

Why on earth should it be tax free?? Why should the fool of a farmer pay tax on any money he makes from actually working the land while some ****er in Dublin or cork who hasn’t seen the place since he/she left for collage in the 90’s get a massive income from it tax free

That’s what is a disgrace

If he inherited a pub or a house and rented them out he’d be paying tax on that rental income, but not on land, that’s my issue

The thing is though without the tax free incentive that land would most likely be sold instead.
For a small farmer like myself I'm totally dependent on rented land. I wouldn't be able to afford to buy land not yet anyway. Renting the land allows me to farm and get some sort of an income and putting myself into a position to hopefully build up enough reserves to maybe buy some land in the future if I feel so inclined.
I can compete with the bigger farmers with bigger sfp payments on the rental market but I couldn't possibly on the buying market.

Now maybe land price would decrease if the tax free elements were discarded but somehow I doubt it??

Bass Reeves

Panch18 wrote: »

The fact is that the tax free allowances for land rental are better than winning the lottery

It’s a ridiculously one sided tax benefit where the fools working the land really are fools

Now it’s one thing a farmer retiring and getting the allowance, I can handle that, but what’s happening around here now is the auld lads are dying off and the next generation are inheriting the land, leasing it out tax free, whilst having the good paying jobs already. Now that is really like winning the lotto without ever having made any contribution whatsoever to farming. An absolute disgrace

there are two issues at play one is dairy farmers able to pay extraordinary rent beyond the power of other agri sectors. However there is a second issue and that is we still have some idiots in other sectors competing with dairy. If it is not going to leave you a decent margin leave it off

Grueller wrote: »

Beef is a commodity. We are on world price so anything Irish farmers do to tighten supplies will make next to no difference.
My own plan is to sit absolutely tight at my current numbers and enterprise until 2020 cap reform and then evaluate the best way to maximise income from schemes. If there is no scheme for sucklers coming down the line then I think they are a dead duck east of the Shannon. 600,000 extra dairy calves on stream next year puts a final nail in the hopes of a price rise for beef.
I am an absolute cheerleader for sucklers but can see no future in them for myself as a nearly young farmer.

Why are you a cheerleader for sucklers. In farming of all business your only friend is your pocket. Forget about propaganda from the teagasc, the Farmers Journal and the meat factories if sucklers are not viable in your situation forget about them and move away from that enterprise.

Panch18 wrote: »

I’m not saying it’s a disgrace they are letting it, far from it

What I’m saying is that it is a disgrace that people who haven’t set foot on land for years are able to get an inheritance and lease it out tax free.

Why on earth should it be tax free?? Why should the fool of a farmer pay tax on any money he makes from actually working the land while some ****er in Dublin or cork who hasn’t seen the place since he/she left for collage in the 90’s get a massive income from it tax free

That’s what is a disgrace

If he inherited a pub or a house and rented them out he’d be paying tax on that rental income, but not on land, that’s my issue

The whole point about having it tax free was to encourage longer leasing and to reduce rents it has encouraged the first but has increased rents. But farm organisations that have lobbied for this have put a floor under land prices and under rental prices by allowing farmers that go into forestry and leasing to retain BFP. WQhat ever about Forestry allowing BFP to be retained by leasor is a disgrace

wrangler

Bass Reeves wrote: »

there are two issues at play one is dairy farmers able to pay extraordinary rent beyond the power of other agri sectors. However there is a second issue and that is we still have some idiots in other sectors competing with dairy. If it is not going to leave you a decent margin leave it off



Why are you a cheerleader for sucklers. In farming of all business your only friend is your pocket. Forget about propaganda from the teagasc, the Farmers Journal and the meat factories if sucklers are not viable in your situation forget about them and move away from that enterprise.



The whole point about having it tax free was to encourage longer leasing and to reduce rents it has encouraged the first but has increased rents. But farm organisations that have lobbied for this have put a floor under land prices and under rental prices by allowing farmers that go into forestry and leasing to retain BFP. WQhat ever about Forestry allowing BFP to be retained by leasor is a disgrace

There's no propaganda from teagasc etc that isn't flagging the lack of profit in the suckler enterprise, I've never heard anything only criticism from factory buyers about dairybred beef, even as late as last saturday when a retired factory boss couldn't say enough bad about it. O grade beef is where Polish beef is and 10%cheaper, That's the market you're in now, It's going to get worse too with nothing to stock land only dairy beef, They've nothing going for them.
At least you've credited IFA with tax free land lease, I've been afraid to say it here, Politicians didn't just wake up one morning and say we'll give farmers contributory old age pensions and taxfree land leases, yet it's there, wonder who lobbied for that,
Land rent isn't expensive compared to BPS and ANC payments available on it,
Subsidies going to anything other than active farmers wasn't lobbied for by IFA, However I won't be complaining about that oversight

alps

Say my name wrote: »

. Renting the land allows me to farm and get some sort of an income and putting myself into a position to hopefully build up enough reserves to maybe buy some land in the future if I feel so inclined.
??

This is the snag part of the scheme. Yes it was to facilitate and entice the renting out of land to those that may make better use of it, however it's being abused.

Land prices have increased on the back of it because non farmers are now in the market for land to help with wealth transfer and while you could purchase, you would have to pay down the capital from after tax earnings, these investors can buy, lease tax free and use the tax free money to pay down capital. It's an unintended consequence of a scheme, and if not rectified, could jeprodise it altogether.

Sorry this is off topic...

Bass Reeves

wrangler wrote: »

There's no propaganda from teagasc etc that isn't flagging the lack of profit in the suckler enterprise, I've never heard anything only criticism from factory buyers about dairybred beef, even as late as last saturday when a retired factory boss couldn't say enough bad about it. O grade beef is where Polish beef is and 10%cheaper, That's the market you're in now, It's going to get worse too with nothing to stock land only dairy beef, They've nothing going for them.
At least you've credited IFA with tax free land lease, I've been afraid to say it here, Politicians didn't just wake up one morning and say we'll give farmers contributory old age pensions and taxfree land leases, yet it's there, wonder who lobbied for that,
Land rent isn't expensive compared to BPS and ANC payments available on it,
Subsidies going to anything other than active farmers wasn't lobbied for by IFA, However I won't be complaining about that oversight

Propaganda he retired isn't he. We have a whole slew of these retired experts from lads writing in the Journal to Teagasc lads wanting to reconfigure the grid as well as retired farmers that have no clue to the reality out there now.

When beef gets scarce the Beef that is not getting QA on the grid always gets the highest rise. It is only when beef is really cheap that processors can sell the elephants into Italy and across the rest of Europe.

ANC and BPS is supposed to put money into farmers pockets not into lads renting and leasing land. Take ANC at approx 80/HA and a BPS at 300/HA its equivlent to 150/acre. If you are paying 250/acre for lad it is hard to make a margin if the first 100 is gone. But lots of lads renting land are renting the payments as well so the first 200+ of margin is gone on rent.

wrangler

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Propaganda he retired isn't he. We have a whole slew of these retired experts from lads writing in the Journal to Teagasc lads wanting to reconfigure the grid as well as retired farmers that have no clue to the reality out there now.

When beef gets scarce the Beef that is not getting QA on the grid always gets the highest rise. It is only when beef is really cheap that processors can sell the elephants into Italy and across the rest of Europe.

ANC and BPS is supposed to put money into farmers pockets not into lads renting and leasing land. Take ANC at approx 80/HA and a BPS at 300/HA its equivlent to 150/acre. If you are paying 250/acre for lad it is hard to make a margin if the first 100 is gone. But lots of lads renting land are renting the payments as well so the first 200+ of margin is gone on rent.

I knew him when he was in the beef business as well, often sat a cross a meeting and he had the same opinion. but sure what would he know he was only out there trying to sell the stuff.
The market will set the land rent

Bass Reeves

wrangler wrote: »

I knew him when he was in the beef business as well, often sat a cross a meeting and he had the same opinion. but sure what would he know he was only out there trying to sell the stuff.
The market will set the land rent

Propaganda I will say it again. He will still want to kill these bulls and steers from sucklers at sub 380kgs DW. It is virtually uneconomical to produce such cattle at sub 5/kg not to mind at a base of 3.75/kg. At this price we are about the lowest riced beef in the Eu and heading for the lowest world price. Take away Vat rebate and we are about 3.55/kg of a base. In that price range any of out competitors offering suckler beef are selling it from Zebu cattle.

Again lads not up to date with reality

wrangler

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Propaganda I will say it again. He will still want to kill these bulls and steers from sucklers at sub 380kgs DW. It is virtually uneconomical to produce such cattle at sub 5/kg not to mind at a base of 3.75/kg. At this price we are about the lowest riced beef in the Eu and heading for the lowest world price. Take away Vat rebate and we are about 3.55/kg of a base. In that price range any of out competitors offering suckler beef are selling it from Zebu cattle.

Again lads not up to date with reality

Do you think that dairy bred beef is any more viable..... are the guys that you buy your stores from viable.
I hear there's a trial starting with dairy calves to beef, figures from that will be interesting, Selling cattle at 3.55 is like pandering to a bold child......it's only going to make it worse.
Low prices usually cure low prices unless you're dealing with farmers.

jaymla627

wrangler wrote: »

Do you think that dairy bred beef is any more viable..... are the guys that you buy your stores from viable.
I hear there's a trial starting with dairy calves to beef, figures from that will be interesting, Selling cattle at 3.55 is like pandering to a bold child......it's only going to make it worse.
Low prices usually cure low prices unless you're dealing with farmers.

Tipping point has definetley been reached re beef, chatting to reps re money owed and the general mood put their at present

Bass Reeves

wrangler wrote: »

Do you think that dairy bred beef is any more viable..... are the guys that you buy your stores from viable.
I hear there's a trial starting with dairy calves to beef, figures from that will be interesting, Selling cattle at 3.55 is like pandering to a bold child......it's only going to make it worse.
Low prices usually cure low prices unless you're dealing with farmers.

Again you only half read my post in you excitement to reply. I was speaking about how cheap the processors access prime R grade beef at present after the vat rebate. All we know about trials is that both suckler projects ran by the experts cannot wash there faces even before labour and land rental costs are allowed for. Whatever chance dairy bred beef has of operating at a margin there is no margin at sucklers unless you are killing elephant sized bulls.
At a base of 4/ kg dairy bred beef is leaving a margin at calf to beef systems. If we hit bases above 4.2 we are starting to be economically viable and very profitable above 4.5/kg. That is if the idiots buying calves stop passing back any margin to dairy farmers. I cannot stop them they have to learn themselves. Sucklers are just not viable and you retired factory owner/ manager know that as well but he was blowing wind up lads hole and obviously had a willing audience listening to his clatter and not challenging his bull

wrangler

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Again you only half read my post in you excitement to reply. I was speaking about how cheap the processors access prime R grade beef at present after the vat rebate. All we know about trials is that both suckler projects ran by the experts cannot wash there faces even before labour and land rental costs are allowed for. Whatever chance dairy bred beef has of operating at a margin there is no margin at sucklers unless you are killing elephant sized bulls.
At a base of 4/ kg dairy bred beef is leaving a margin at calf to beef systems. If we hit bases above 4.2 we are starting to be economically viable and very profitable above 4.5/kg. That is if the idiots buying calves stop passing back any margin to dairy farmers. I cannot stop them they have to learn themselves. Sucklers are just not viable and you retired factory owner/ manager know that as well but he was blowing wind up lads hole and obviously had a willing audience listening to his clatter and not challenging his bull

I got the price wrong but not the way you think, Indo is saying that friesian bulls are 3.50 flat and they're picking and choosing even at that.
IFJ lost their shirt on dairy calf to beef, apparently the calves were €100+/hd too dear.
As for my friend, anything he forecast seems to be happening. I've also a friend that delivers for a processor and meets the customers...... he'd be singing off the same hymn sheet regarding friesian beef, a humble lorry driver