Will Aer Lingus be restricted in flying in Irish or EU airspace after no-deal brexit?

ressem

Since many are shopping for holiday deals currently...

Aer Lingus is owned by IAG, a British majority owned company. As such will need a special agreement from the EU for limited access to EU airspace including Ireland.

Willie Walsh assumed in 2018 that the UK would sign an open skies agreement so there was no risk.
https://www.ft.com/content/af5db868-214e-11e8-a895-1ba1f72c2c11

EasyJet has since had a drive to recruit EU shareholders to get over 50% EU based ownership.

But IAG is trying to convince the EU that it's controlled by a spanish holding company. which will likely be contested?

https://www.thelocal.es/20190102/iberia-claims-its-owned-by-el-corte-ingls-to-avoid-crisis-if-no-deal-brexit wrote:

IB Opco Holding SL.

This association was allegedly responsible for splitting Iberia’s financial rights – 100 percent owned by IAG – from its political rights, which are 50.01 percent in the hands of Garanair, a shell airline business which is 100 percent owned by El Corte Inglés.

According to Spain’s Commercial Register, Garanair has only one employee and a value of just 7,000 shares, each worth €1.

https://elpais.com/elpais/2019/01/02/inenglish/1546440201_162784.html

https://www.euractiv.com/section/uk-europe/news/brussels-cuts-iberia-and-aer-linguss-wings-to-fly-in-eu-after-brexit/ wrote:

As a result, Iberia and Aer Lingus, the flag carriers of Spain and Ireland, will not be allowed to fly within their territory after Brexit, or to any other airport in the EU.

These two member states’ longstanding companies would not be the only ones impacted. Vueling, also part of IAG, would be also affected.

Other firms, including Easyjet, could also see its flights limited to direct connections between the UK and the EU.

(No... I don't have ties to any competing airline, or anything in that line of business)

kneemos

Just a change of customs requirements,if even that.

DontThankMe

I'm fairly certain that the airlines that would be impacted by a no deal brexit will have plans in place to deal with the situation if it arises. Since the results of them not being able to fly in those areas would be very bad for their revenue and subsequently their profits.

JB90

I flew with easy jet last month and they advised that we were flying with easy jet Europe....never heard them mention that before

ressem

kneemos wrote: »

Just a change of customs requirements,if even that.

A number of European governments will be petitioned by flag carriers to not go soft on the UK airlines.
In a similar non-symmetrical way that EU airlines are restricted from operating second-hop flights in the US, in a manner that US operators are allowed.

The UK looks to be agreed on the US-UK open skies rules, and UK-China, UK-Canada.
But the UK-EU agreement looks like it's going to be a last minute thing, or a stopgap measure with restrictions.

Could get complicated, and Irish people might be complacent about how it might affect us.
E.g. someone with a NI driving permit might need 2 international driving permits to drive between countries in Europe each year, and a green card for motor insurance in the case of a no deal, and might want to get the stamps in advance.
https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/travel/driving-abroad/international-driving-permits-and-brexit/

What about if I drive to Spain via France where 2 types of IDP may be required?
You may need to purchase both the 1949 and the 1968 versions of IDPs, costing £11

orourkeda1977

Planes will still fly when britain leaves the EU.

trellheim

International Airlines Group (IAG owns BA , Aer Lingus, Iberia, Vueling etc) is a Spanish company.

I suspect there may be some fun with the Qataris having to dump some shares or something like.

kneemos

Irrelevant who owns the airline surely? The origin and destination would be the issue.

Get Real

JB90 wrote: »

I flew with easy jet last month and they advised that we were flying with easy jet Europe....never heard them mention that before

Easy jet Europe is owned by easy jet. It's a "separate company" but the same company if you get me.

It was only set up in 2017 in Austria by Easy jet. It was set up as a direct result of Brexit so they could have an Air licence from an EU state.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/EasyJet_Europe

Not sure if EasyJet in the UK plan to expand this subsidiary even further. I reckon that is their game plan though.

ressem

trellheim wrote: »

International Airlines Group (IAG owns BA , Aer Lingus, Iberia, Vueling etc) is a Spanish company.

I suspect there may be some fun with the Qataris having to dump some shares or something like.

It's registered in Spain, but it's the ownership and control that determines the applicable EU rules.
"EU majority ownership and effective control is one of the conditions to be met in order to obtain and maintain an operating licence."
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-8-2017-004646-ASW_EN.html

Or might the Irish government be stuck in a position of having to buy shares in some configuration like Easyjet Europe?

DS86DS

Aer Lingus should be subjected to Irish law and should be allowed go where those laws permit.

Stuff the EU and what it thinks. At this rate, the EU will do as much damage to our airline industry as they did to our fisheries, the loss to the Irish state estimated to be in the tens of billions.

ressem

DS86DS wrote: »

Aer Lingus should be subjected to Irish law and should be allowed go where those laws permit.

It is subject to Irish law. Aer Lingus is not an Irish owned /controlled company.

As for the off topic bits, I should know better but...

We are the EU. Those fisheries numbers are tabloid emotive falsehoods, and massively outweighed by benefits to farmers and food markets in economic terms. When we joined the EU Ireland had no deep sea fishing fleet and a tiny number in full time sea fishing.(1,821 people employed fulltime in 1969)
http://www.finfacts.ie/Irish_finance_news/articleDetail.php?Irish-fisheries-industry-and-myth-of-EU-stealing-our-fish-392
http://www.seaaroundus.org/data/#/eez/372?chart=catch-chart&dimension=country&measure=value&limit=20

LeinsterDub

kneemos wrote: »

Irrelevant who owns the airline surely? The origin and destination would be the issue.

To avail of the benefits of European air agreements the airline must be majority European owned

Fuser

Aer Lingus aircraft have Irish registrations, so should be treated as an Irish carrier.

LeinsterDub

Fuser wrote: »

Aer Lingus aircraft have Irish registrations, so should be treated as an Irish carrier.

Well they aren't.

ressem

Fuser wrote: »

Aer Lingus aircraft have Irish registrations, so should be treated as an Irish carrier.

That'd allow ownership of all planes and airlines to be in the Caymens, bit of a free for all.

After a few months, 'surely' an agreement will be in place to allow UK owned airlines to travel in EU airspace. But will March and April be a mess?

There's also a question whether the UK will withdraw from EASA (European Aviation Safety Agency) and "Single European Sky" air traffic management system, or become an associate member like Norway.

Fuser

ressem wrote: »

Fuser wrote: »

Aer Lingus aircraft have Irish registrations, so should be treated as an Irish carrier.

That'd allow ownership of all planes and airlines to be in the Caymens, bit of a free for all.

After a few months, 'surely' an agreement will be in place to allow UK owned airlines to travel in EU airspace. But will March and April be a mess?

There's also a question whether the UK will withdraw from EASA (European Aviation Safety Agency) and "Single European Sky" air traffic management system, or become an associate member like Norway.

I was just making the point that Irish registered aircraft can fly in Irish airspace.

ted1

kneemos wrote: »

Irrelevant who owns the airline surely? The origin and destination would be the issue.

No it’s very relevant.

ted1

Fuser wrote: »

Aer Lingus aircraft have Irish registrations, so should be treated as an Irish carrier.

It’s the company not the aircraft that need the registration. It’s why Norwegian airlines opened an office in Dublin.

ted1

DS86DS wrote: »

Aer Lingus should be subjected to Irish law and should be allowed go where those laws permit.

Stuff the EU and what it thinks. At this rate, the EU will do as much damage to our airline industry as they did to our fisheries, the loss to the Irish state estimated to be in the tens of billions.

Why ? They are not an Irish airline.

The EU have made travelling very easy. Common currency, no borders via etc open skies.