Coercive Control

valoren

This is psychological abuse in an intimate relationship that causes fear of violence, or serious alarm or distress.

New law introduced but how can it be policed? I think it has the potential to enable abusers to exploit the new law e.g. a controlling partner can double down on their abuse and control by threatening to go to the Guards, that they can invent lies about living in fear of their partner. The open ended implications and subjectivity of it has the potential to have abused partners smeared as the perpetrators.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2019/0102/1019886-domestic-violence/

PuppyMcPupFace

Parents need to bring their daughters up to be strong - dispel the myth they "need" a man.

More importantly tell them that the second he tries to tell you what to wear, who to see etc etc - push back. Stand up for yourself. That's psychological bullying and don't allow it. Once you've been worn down anything can happen.

One thing also let's hope that make victims are seen as seriously as female - I know someone who's wife gave him an "allowance" each week and when he displeased her in some perceived way she'dtake it off him - poor guy was given lunches by people as he was starving. That's just not on.

Finally went to the Guards when she locked him out the house on night in November. They actually laughed and said "get her flowers, say sorry and you'll be grand". I dread it when she escalates.

valoren

An abusive wife to a husband say. A browbeaten type who cracks and reacts by standing up for himself during the argument.
She goes to the Guards and get's an emergency barring order. He has to leave the house for 8 days. He returns. It can be exploited to assert control. He will likely not stand up for himself again in future as to do so will mean getting into further trouble.

PuppyMcPupFace

Nznxmx wrote: »

I'd say more men than women are coerced by their significant other. More men need to stand up for themselves.

They can't, this guy know a full well that the second he does that - he'll be kicked out by the Guards with a barring order and will be tarred a wife abuser.

And I agree with you, definitely more prevalent in women that.

suicide_circus

if we can say that more men bate their wives than vice versa, then we can probably say that more women mentally torment their husbands than vice versa.

El_Bee

valoren wrote: »

New law introduced but how can it be policed?

Considering the existing laws aren't being policed very much, it's gonna be a no from me

hatrickpatrick

This is a great idea provided it's applied in a gender neutral manner.

Presumably, threatening self-harm, the destruction of one's reputation through rumour spreading, and manipulating people by cutting them off from their friends - all in order to prevent someone from breaking up or ending a relationship - will fall under this? I'm all for it if so. Had a hideous experience with this in my late teens and it properly f*cked me up.

suicide_circus

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

This is a great idea provided it's applied in a gender neutral manner.

Presumably, threatening self-harm, the destruction of one's reputation through rumour spreading, and manipulating people by cutting them off from their friends - all in order to prevent someone from breaking up or ending a relationship - will fall under this? I'm all for it if so. Had a hideous experience with this in my late teens and it properly f*cked me up.

what about crying on command?

Bob Harris

PuppyMcPupFace wrote: »

Parents need to bring their daughters up to be strong - dispel the myth they "need" a man.

Olivia Newton John and Bonnie Tyler would disagree.

seamus

valoren wrote: »

I think it has the potential to enable abusers to exploit the new law e.g. a controlling partner can double down on their abuse and control by threatening to go to the Guards, that they can invent lies about living in fear of their partner. The open ended implications and subjectivity of it has the potential to have abused partners smeared as the perpetrators.

Basically the same as reports of physical abuse.

It doesn't really open any new avenues for abuse, because abusers will already try to "get ahead" of their victim by smearing their reputation - calling them a "psycho" - with friends and family or reporting a fight back as physical violence to the Gardai.

It is of course subjective and far from perfect, but it does at least provide an avenue where partners who aren't being battered now have a means to end the issue early.

Until now the victim could make a run for it, but unless the abuser laid a finger on them, they were powerless to protect themselves. Any emotional or coercive control wouldn't be factored into barring orders or custody rights over children.

This is a great idea provided it's applied in a gender neutral manner.

The law makes absolutely zero references to the gender of either the victim or perpetrator.

Remembering that it is now the norm for partnerships and marriages to come in all shapes and sizes, there is no choice but to be gender neutral in how the law is applied.

Arguably this law provides far greater protection to male victims, since they no longer have to prove or claim physical abuse to get protection from an abusive partner. While psychological abuse tends in general to lead to physical abuse, male victims have always had a tougher time proving physical abuse.

With this law, they don't have to wait until it gets to that point before they can do something about it.

Snide comments about "crying on command" notwithstanding, if you are a man who genuinely feels like you're being emotionally abused or controlled by your female partner, then you should be glad of this law, as it gives you an avenue to protect yourself.

Deise Vu

valoren wrote: »

An abusive wife to a husband say. A browbeaten type who cracks and reacts by standing up for himself during the argument.
She goes to the Guards and get's an emergency barring order. He has to leave the house for 8 days. He returns. It can be exploited to assert control. He will likely not stand up for himself again in future as to do so will mean getting into further trouble.

Years ago I would have snorted at this but I had a brother go through a messy divorce in the UK. Amongst a ton of so-called gaslightling incidences (binning his glasses, hiding keys, cutting up all his coats in Winter after draining the bank account etc) she had him arrested twice for 'assault'.

Despite him being a foot taller than her and her having no marks, the cops came with sirens blaring and lights flashing and he was duly arrested and placed in a cell overnight. Twice! Each time the police report said there was no case and the report was 'probably in furtherance of her separation process' but they took no action against her or even warned her about wasting police resources. Whenever she wanted him out of the house she used to threaten him with the police, God knows what she would have done with this legislation to back her up.

Mr. Incognito

Its going to be impossible to police.

People who suffer from this type of control will never be in a position to bring home a complaint.

Bob Harris

Deise Vu wrote: »

Years ago I would have snorted at this but I had a brother go through a messy divorce in the UK. Amongst a ton of so-called gaslightling incidences (binning his glasses, hiding keys, cutting up all his coats in Winter after draining the bank account etc) she had him arrested twice for 'assault'.

Despite him being a foot taller than her and her having no marks, the cops came with sirens blaring and lights flashing and he was duly arrested and placed in a cell overnight. Twice! Each time the police report said there was no case and the report was 'probably in furtherance of her separation process' but they took no action against her or even warned her about wasting police resources. Whenever she wanted him out of the house she used to threaten him with the police, God knows what she would have done with this legislation to back her up.

Surely the legislation works both ways and is there for men too?

Deise Vu

Bob Harris wrote: »

Surely the legislation works both ways and is there for men too?

You would think. However a physical assault is easier to prove / disprove and I know the UK police weren't remotely interested. How do you prove your keys or glasses going missing wasn't your own fault? This legislation is a nice idea in theory but I think in practice it is going to have the opposite effect to what is intended. Decent people will try and get through a bad situation as best as possible with the least amount of conflict possible. Nasty people / psycotics will use every weapon available and, in the wrong hands this is a powerful weapon.

Wombatman

Will be about as difficult to enforce as the 1.5 meter cycling law that was scrapped earlier in the week. We want to reduce domestic abuse and keep cycling safe but unenforceable law doesn’t help matters.

It is difficult enough to get an abuse conviction where there is physical evidence.

"Lecturer in Law at NUI Galway Conor Hanly said the new offence of coercive control is a complex one which will be difficult to prove. He said a lot of evidence will be gathered in relation to patterns and behaviours."

https://www.rte.ie/news/2019/0102/1019886-domestic-violence/

Assetbacked

This seems more of a law to help men than women. Little threats of "change X behaviour or stop talking to Y etc. or I'll leave you"; ignoring the man in order to get what she wants etc. are all little psychologically damaging tactics used by women (obviously, men can also use these but these would be seen as almost normal things for a woman to do when she feels aggrieved). This law seems to acknowledge the abuse women can inflict.

Feisar

Gender neutral manner, LOL at the thoughts of it.

Was in the hospital yesterday with my wife, 12 week scan, all well and we are delighted with life. She was telling me after (she was in on her own at one stage) she had to answer a load of questions one being did she feel safe in her home?

No one had a chat with me and asked was my wife a head banger and a threat to the unborn child.