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Any Any Freeview PVRs that work well with Saorview

  • 30-12-2018 6:42pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 964 ✭✭✭ eirman


    I have a Bush HD Freeview PVR that only partly works on Saorview.
    EPG & Recording/Playback is fine - Info Button and Series link do not work.

    RicherSounds are clueless as to whether this will work on Saorview.

    Has anyone any experience of a PVR that mixes Freeview & Saorview even a bit better than my Bush PVR.


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,008 ✭✭✭ ei9go


    RTE changed a bit in their data a couple of years back to prevent non saorview approved receivers recording series link.

    My Panasonic recorded series link before that.

    It's probable that no freeview unit will work fully


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,640 ✭✭✭ BowWow


    eirman wrote: »
    I have a Bush HD Freeview PVR that only partly works on Saorview.
    EPG & Recording/Playback is fine - Info Button and Series link do not work.

    RicherSounds are clueless as to whether this will work on Saorview.

    Has anyone any experience of a PVR that mixes Freeview & Saorview even a bit better than my Bush PVR.
    ei9go wrote: »
    RTE changed a bit in their data a couple of years back to prevent non saorview approved receivers recording series link.

    My Panasonic recorded series link before that.

    It's probable that no freeview unit will work fully

    I have the Humax T2 Fox. As above, used to have series link on Saorview, but no longer.


  • Registered Users Posts: 652 ✭✭✭ decor58


    eirman wrote:
    Has anyone any experience of a PVR that mixes Freeview & Saorview even a bit better than my Bush PVR.


    I went for a Panasonic hwt150, mainly because I can reorder the channels, I don't think you can do that on the humax, during the summer it picked up UK channels, we are in Bray and Saorview and Freeview displayed, I didn't try any recording. I get 7 day epg but no series link, it's used in the kitchen for soap's etc, the work around is to manually set recordings, and it records at the same time each week, works fine.


  • Registered Users Posts: 964 ✭✭✭ eirman


    Useful replies - thank you
    I suppose I can live without series link.

    Does the Info/I button for viewing program information work for anyone?


  • Moderators, Regional North West Moderators Posts: 43,184 Mod ✭✭✭✭ muffler


    I bought this Hitachi Freeview recorder several years ago and its working fine for recording and series link etc on the Freeview channels. I have only ever recorded single programmes on Saorview so I've no idea if series link works with it at all.

    No issues with Freeview channels in getting info but it wont display any info on the Saorview channels other than the programme name, start/finish time and next programme start/finish time. I just checked a few of the Saorview channels a few minutes ago and unlike the Freeview channels it doesnt give any content description what so ever.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 964 ✭✭✭ eirman


    muffler wrote: »
    I just checked a few of the Saorview channels a few minutes ago and unlike the Freeview channels it doesnt give any content description what so ever.
    Thanks muffler - That's just what I feared.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,975 ✭✭✭✭ fryup


    looking for a PVR that will list all channels (rte & bbc) in one list


  • Company Representative Posts: 9,429 ✭✭✭ Richersounds.ie: John


    eirman wrote: »
    I have a Bush HD Freeview PVR that only partly works on Saorview.
    EPG & Recording/Playback is fine - Info Button and Series link do not work.

    RicherSounds are clueless as to whether this will work on Saorview.

    Has anyone any experience of a PVR that mixes Freeview & Saorview even a bit better than my Bush PVR.

    Hi eirman,

    I think 'clueless' is a little strong..

    We advised you that the HDT1800T is not Saorview certified - its a Freeview certified unit and as such we cannot guarantee that specific functions will work per the Saorview specification.

    I think any Boardies who has purchased early non Saorview certified units to find that they did not work correctly would appreciate our candour.

    It's really easy to say 'yeah, it will work and 2 years down the line Saorview change a flag or code to enable a setting and non-Saorview certified equipment does not work and the Customer is left to argue with the retailer - we prefer to be honest and upfront and we will not guarantee that a product that is not fully certified will function 100%

    As ever drop me a line if we can assist or of course if you disagree with the above,

    ATVB,

    John McDonald
    Director
    Richer Sounds Ireland

    John McDonald / Managing Director / Richer Sounds Ireland / www.richersounds.ie / [email protected]



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,380 ✭✭✭ 17-pdr


    BowWow wrote: »
    I have the Humax T2 Fox. As above, used to have series link on Saorview, but no longer.

    Yep, have a T2 as well. Always thought it was sneaky & underhanded the way Saorview nobbled all the non-approved boxes in this way. Suppose they had to cover themselves in some way for picking that oddball hybrid Nordig standard instead of going with the UK's D-Book and ensuring a seamless market between the UK & Ireland for TVs and STBs.


  • Company Representative Posts: 9,429 ✭✭✭ Richersounds.ie: John


    @17-pdr,

    Yep I agree and that is what we advised the OP - this was the exact quote:


    'The HDR1800 will give you Saorview reception but it is not Saorview Authorised so we do not recommend it for Saorview applications as some functions may not operate.'


    As you are aware the UK boxes will work but its almost impossible to guarantee that the 'sub' functions will all operate due to the different certifications and this is what we were trying to advise the OP..

    ATVB,

    John Mc & The Richersounds Ireland Crew

    John McDonald / Managing Director / Richer Sounds Ireland / www.richersounds.ie / [email protected]



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,880 ✭✭✭ kooga


    Just to clarify unless it is saorview approved neither series link or the channels coming in the right order will work.

    I have the a humax freeview HD 500gb recorder which I bought from RS in Belfast at the time of buying I knew series link was disabled and I would not be able to reorder the channels as they come in the 800's - 4 years on the box is still working fine and recording away.

    So each week I have to manually set the record button for the tv show I wish to record - but I can live with that first world problem. Am I happy with my purchase yes I am! also the humax does provide programme info and the subtitles work.

    I understand that the panasonics are just as good - they do allow you to reorder the channels but have no programme info.

    I hope this helps.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,383 ✭✭✭ STB.


    There is no box that any retail supplier could stand over that could be said to handle both Freeview and Saorview . There are two different spec'd broadcast systems for two different countries.

    This has been the case for years.

    The data that people are talking about here in EPG/series link which is dictated by flagged content reference identifiers (CRID) or look up tables (like Huffman tables that Freeview use). The software on each box is configured to gather this data. One bit of software may not be in the other countries box, hence why things do not work.

    Conversely enigma2 boxes are quite successful in pulling in epg data OTA for Saorview and OTA from the Sky openepg transponder to see that it works for both Freesat and Saorview. The function is called Autotimer rather than series link on E2 boxes.


  • Company Representative Posts: 9,429 ✭✭✭ Richersounds.ie: John


    Hi STB = long time! :D

    Exactly what I said to the OP - there is no point getting into the 'what will and what won't work' - unless they are Saorview certified we can't stand over them and we don't recommend Freeview certified STB's for any Saorview application - but great to have your stamp on it as well :D

    Thanks again STB,

    ATVB,

    John Mc & Crew

    John McDonald / Managing Director / Richer Sounds Ireland / www.richersounds.ie / [email protected]



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭ Digifriendly


    Panasonic recorders for me as they reorder channels. BTW I live in N. Ireland and get excellent Saorview as well as Freeview. I don't mind Saorview in 800s as I have Freevew radio channels in 700's but when you tune in the two Saorview multiplexes RTE1 comes away down the channel list separate from RTE2 TV3 etc. So reordering channels is important for me.
    In terms of recording, having no series link for Saorview is only a slight drawback as you can record directly from epg with a Panasonic PVR. It's not that hard to do. Only time it causes a problem not to have series link for me is if you are away on holiday.
    2 Simple questions I would like to ask as regards a TV for those in the know - I am thinking of changing my main TV and I tend to buy Sony as I find them a good make but my daughter has just got one and they all have Youview integrated in them. Does this mean you get Saorview on same epg? Also can you disable Youview and get Freeview/Saorview on a separate epg.


  • Registered Users Posts: 652 ✭✭✭ decor58


    Panasonic recorders for me . Only time it causes a problem not to have series link for me is if you are away on holiday.


    I downloaded a Panasonic app that allows me set recording when out of the house.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭ Digifriendly


    decor58 wrote: »
    Panasonic recorders for me . Only time it causes a problem not to have series link for me is if you are away on holiday.


    I downloaded a Panasonic app that allows me set recording when out of the house.

    Thanks for this. Will maybe try.


  • Registered Users Posts: 452 ✭✭ kazoo106


    This is another example of the complete shambles which is Saorview.
    On one hand they invest millions upgrading the Clermont Carn and Holywell hill sites to provide coverage into NI

    While the poor unfortunates who receive these sites on Freeview PVR's and TV have to cope with over 100 blank channels - testcards etc, with the real channels sprinkled in the middle in no conforming order - and then to top this off, Series Record and program description no longer works as someone in Montrose made a completely un-necessary change

    Setting these TV's to Ireland has the opposite effect, where the UK Porn channels are placed in the middle of the entertainment channels.

    I'm sure a bit of co-ordination here would help, particularly regarding LCN etc - otherwise, what's the point of all these Kilowatts pointing North


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,383 ✭✭✭ STB.


    kazoo106 wrote: »

    Setting these TV's to Ireland has the opposite effect, where the UK Porn channels are placed in the middle of the entertainment channels.

    I'm sure a bit of co-ordination here would help, particularly regarding LCN etc - otherwise, what's the point of all these Kilowatts pointing North

    The shambles is nothing to do with Saorview nor Freeview. Customers in each part of the Island are receiving the national broadcasting network and overspill from another.

    Country codes dictate who gets preference in logical channel numbering. For all Broadcasters the LCN is 1,2,3,4 etc. ONLY out of country service get shoved into the 800s.

    Until we have a United Ireland with no other broadcasting network but 2rn, nothing is going to change.

    BTW CC is primarily for Louth Meath and North County Dublin. Similarily Holywell is for the North West of the Country. Neither were set up to blast into the North although their distance from the border effectively means that it is inevitable.


  • Registered Users Posts: 652 ✭✭✭ decor58


    kazoo106 wrote:
    While the poor unfortunates who receive these sites on Freeview PVR's and TV have to cope with over 100 blank channels - testcards etc, with the real channels sprinkled in the middle in no conforming order - and then to top this off, Series Record and program description no longer works as someone in Montrose made a completely un-necessary change
    I can renumber the channels on the Panasonic, but my choice of apps is very limited, Netflix and YouTube are OK But the BBC news app won't work, the same app works on my Freesat box.


  • Registered Users Posts: 452 ✭✭ kazoo106


    So - why are there panels pointing east on Holywell and North on CC? - It was put there in 1981 for one purpose. Kippure adequately serviced Louth and Meath. I also feel that the networks could be made "aware" of one and other (on this island) with regards to a numbering plan - 801-822 could be allocated to saorview channels on UK settings. After all the PSB, COM and LBT muxes are run by different organisations. this could be setup in such a way as to hide the nonsense blank channels.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,383 ✭✭✭ STB.


    kazoo106 wrote: »
    So - why are there panels pointing east on Holywell and North on CC? - It was put there in 1981 for one purpose. Kippure adequately serviced Louth and Meath. I also feel that the networks could be made "aware" of one and other (on this island) with regards to a numbering plan - 801-822 could be allocated to saorview channels on UK settings. After all the PSB, COM and LBT muxes are run by different organisations. this could be setup in such a way as to hide the nonsense blank channels.


    The square dvb panels don't just point in one direction. Example

    Brougher%2BMountain%2Btransmitter.jpg

    The history of the tx sites and what they were set up to serve is well known. That RTE also used CC to improve signal into Belfast is well known also.

    The overspill from Irish TX's into the North is below.

    aa-Saorview-leakage.png

    The NI MiniMux then also transmits from Brougher Mtn, Black Mtn and Carnmoney Hill and serve within NI.

    Back to your Country coding issue. Logical Channel Numbering receives and prioritises channel according to what Country you select when you set your TV up initially, i.e. UK or Ireland. Non Country services are then dumped in the 800s. This is a dvb standard. The broadcast parameters are set in the streams broadcast.

    Most TV's or STB's allow you to change the 801 allocations manually to a number of your own anyway.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,793 ✭✭✭✭ The Cush


    STB. wrote: »
    Back to your Country coding issue. Logical Channel Numbering receives and prioritises channel according to what Country you select when you set your TV up initially, i.e. UK or Ireland. Non Country services are then dumped in the 800s. This is a dvb standard. The broadcast parameters are set in the streams broadcast.

    IIRC this is a Freeview D-Book requirement that applies to both out of country (non-UK) channels and also out of region duplicate UK channels.

    I believe someone confirmed here in the past that a TV set to Ireland will store UK channels directly following the Saorview channels as the D-Book requirements don't apply.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,383 ✭✭✭ STB.


    The Cush wrote: »
    IIRC this is a Freeview D-Book requirement that applies to both out of country (non-UK) channels and also out of region duplicate UK channels.

    I believe someone confirmed here in the past that a TV set to Ireland will store UK channels directly following the Saorview channels as the D-Book requirements don't apply.


    Both follow the Nordig descriptor in the dvb NIT.


    The order for Freeview/Sky hybrid bundling is largely based on the channel's content:
    • General Entertainment from 1 to 99
    • High Definition from 100 to 119
    • Young Children from 201 to 219
    • News/Public Service from 230 to 239
    • MHEG-5 non-broadcast Internet streaming are from 260 to 299
    • Reserved for YouView from 300 - 599
    • MHEG-5 Interactive from 600 to 609
    • Adult Pay Per View from 670 to 695
    • Audio Only from 700 to 777
    • Tests and old channels from 790 to 799
    • D RATED Channels (on first day) (Samsung only) 800-850
    The order for the Republic of Ireland's Saorview is based on the priority of the channel to that of the state owned broadcaster:
    1. State owned RTÉ primary HD TV channel
    2. State owned RTÉ secondary HD TV channel
    • other TV channels from 3 to 5
    • other state owned RTÉ TV channels from 6 to 8
    • state owned RTÉ Audio Only channels from 200 to 209

    See the chapter for treatment of country of "operation" Rules of Operation for NorDig Compliant Platforms Nordig LCNv1 versus LCN v2


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,793 ✭✭✭✭ The Cush


    STB. wrote: »
    The order for the Republic of Ireland's Saorview is based on the priority of the channel to that of the state owned broadcaster:
    1. State owned RTÉ primary HD TV channel
    2. State owned RTÉ secondary HD TV channel
    • other TV channels from 3 to 5
    • other state owned RTÉ TV channels from 6 to 8
    • state owned RTÉ Audio Only channels from 200 to 209

    See the chapter for treatment of country of "operation" Rules of Operation for NorDig Compliant Platforms Nordig LCNv1 versus LCN v2

    Saorview's current LCN policy

    General Entertainment LCN 1-20
    General Entertainment (Time Shift Channels) LCN 11-20
    News and Information LCN 21-30
    Radio LCN 200-250
    Data Channels LCN 251-255

    With all those hidden empty channels carried on Saorview up to LCN 50 I assume any Freeview channel would be stored from LCN 51 upwards.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,383 ✭✭✭ STB.


    The Cush wrote: »
    Saorview's current LCN policy

    General Entertainment LCN 1-20
    General Entertainment (Time Shift Channels) LCN 11-20
    News and Information LCN 21-30
    Radio LCN 200-250
    Data Channels LCN 251-255

    With all those hidden empty channels carried on Saorview up to LCN 50 I assume any Freeview channel would be stored from LCN 51 upwards.

    Dont think so Cush. My understanding is (and this can be applied to both STB's or TV's with Country Settings) that the box first looks for valid ONID's for that Country, and populates the services from the NIT. If other services or foreign ONID's are found (ie an overflow service) then those are dumped in the overflow area (800-999), otehrwise you would have chaos with 2 NITs battling for priority.

    Foreign Services always get dumped into that overflow area. If you have the option to turn LCN off, then you can do what you want in terms of ordering.


  • Registered Users Posts: 452 ✭✭ kazoo106


    On Saorview boxes (and TV's set to Ireland) UTV starts usually at 51. then all in random order (including the porno channels in the middle of Kids channels !)


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,793 ✭✭✭✭ The Cush


    kazoo106 wrote: »
    On Saorview boxes (and TV's set to Ireland) UTV starts usually at 51. then all in random order (including the porno channels in the middle of Kids channels !)

    Thanks for confirming, I remember this being discussed in the early days of Saorview here.


  • Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭ Derby1


    Can porno channels be turned off or blocked?


  • Registered Users Posts: 499 ✭✭ MACHEAD


    On my old Humax HDR Fox T2, I could remove/hide the the porn channels. Most tuners don't allow this now as far as i know. Other than create favourite lists which omit the channels you don't want, I don't know of any other way round this.


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