UK citizen but entitled to Irish passport ?

Hi all.

Asking for a friend.

I fear I know the answer but information on the net can be confusing and contradictory.

I’ll try and keep this a simple scenario -

I’m born in the uk.

My mother is born in the uk.

My mother’s family (grandfather) is originally from Roscommon.

My mother’s grandfather was alive when my mother was born.

By virtue of the above I know she is entitled to an Irish passport.

When she receives her passport will I then be able to apply for an Irish passport ?

From my research I don’t think I can. I think she’d have needed to hold the Irish passport from BEFORE I was born. Are there any exceptions to this if true ?

Sorry if more confusing than needs to be.

Thanks in advance.

cython

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Hi all.

Asking for a friend.

I fear I know the answer but information on the net can be confusing and contradictory.

I’ll try and keep this a simple scenario -

I’m born in the uk.

My mother is born in the uk.

My mother’s family (grandfather) is originally from Roscommon.

My mother’s grandfather was alive when my mother was born.

By virtue of the above I know she is entitled to an Irish passport.

When she receives her passport will I then be able to apply for an Irish passport ?

From my research I don’t think I can. I think she’d have needed to hold the Irish passport from BEFORE I was born. Are there any exceptions to this if true ?

Sorry if more confusing than needs to be.

Thanks in advance.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/irish_citizenship/irish_citizenship_through_birth_or_descent.html#l091af gives a pretty good outline, but in short I'd read it that the mother in this scenario is (regardless of her holding a passport or not) an Irish citizen, and while you/your friend (depending on the phrasing you adopted above) are not currently a citizen, you can apply to be one as someone born abroad to a parent who was also born abroad but whose parent was born in country.

Is important to note that citizenship is the material concept here rather than holding of a passport, and the former affords access to the latter.

cython

cython wrote: »

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/irish_citizenship/irish_citizenship_through_birth_or_descent.html#l091af gives a pretty good outline, but in short I'd read it that the mother in this scenario is (regardless of her holding a passport or not) an Irish citizen, and while you/your friend (depending on the phrasing you adopted above) are not currently a citizen, you can apply to be one as someone born abroad to a parent who was also born abroad but whose parent was born in country.

Is important to note that citizenship is the material concept here rather than holding of a passport, and the former affords access to the latter.

Yeah. I’ll keep it simple by using ‘i’

Thanks for the above. That gives me hope.

I’ll scrutinise that link and see what I learn.

My only concern is for a passport because I want to be able to travel within the EU with an Irish passport rather than my British one.

Also, I have on eye in living in a EU country, long term, so I think it would be beneficial for this reason also.

Cosmo Kramer

cython wrote: »

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/irish_citizenship/irish_citizenship_through_birth_or_descent.html#l091af gives a pretty good outline, but in short I'd read it that the mother in this scenario is (regardless of her holding a passport or not) an Irish citizen, and while you/your friend (depending on the phrasing you adopted above) are not currently a citizen, you can apply to be one as someone born abroad to a parent who was also born abroad but whose parent was born in country.

Is important to note that citizenship is the material concept here rather than holding of a passport, and the former affords access to the latter.

My wife is currently going through this process and unfortunately I don't think this interpretation is correct.

My reading of it is that the poster's grandparent was born in Britain. The poster's great-grandparent was born in Ireland. As such the poster's grandparent, although not Irish born, is considered to be an Irish citizen. The poster's mother is not an Irish citizen but can become one by filling in the relevant forms and paying the applicable fee (around £300).

Unfortunately the poster is already born before the mother has undertaken this process so has no right to Irish citizenship through the mother - the first Irish born relative to the poster is a great grandparent, which is one generation too far away.

However, any theoretical children the mother has after going through the citizenship application process could become Irish citizens as citizenship can be passed on indefinitely as long as it was obtained by the parent before the child was born.

Hope that helps OP, even if it was not the answer you were hoping for.

For what it's worth I am far from convinced that the final version of Brexit, if it happens at all, will be one that restricts free movement between Britain and the EU so you might yet be able to move freely to Europe with your UK passport.

nim1bdeh38l2cw

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

For what it's worth I am far from convinced that the final version of Brexit, if it happens at all, will be one that restricts free movement between Britain and the EU so you might yet be able to move freely to Europe with your UK passport.

Buy that's the primary aim of the Brexiteers! Removing freedom of movement

osarusan

I think your mother is still entitled to citizenship and a passport as she has a grandparent born in Ireland, but she needed to avail of this entitlement before you were born for you to be able to avail of it also.

Where were your mother's parents born?

Cosmo Kramer

Maverick Squeaking Warlord wrote: »

Buy that's the primary aim of the Brexiteers! Removing freedom of movement

Well...yes, obviously - but that doesn't mean it, or even any forn of Brexit, will actually happen. Anyway that's a topic covered in much greater detail on another thread.

cython

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

My wife is currently going through this process and unfortunately I don't think this interpretation is correct.

My reading of it is that the poster's grandparent was born in Britain. The poster's great-grandparent was born in Ireland. As such the poster's grandparent, although not Irish born, is considered to be an Irish citizen. The poster's mother is not an Irish citizen but can become one by filling in the relevant forms and paying the applicable fee (around £300).

My interpretation is predicated on the below:

My mother’s family (grandfather) is originally from Roscommon.

I'd interpret that as being that the grandfather is originally from Roscommon and simply qualifies the term family, as opposed to the grandfather's parents being from Roscommon, with him being born outside Ireland. If the OP has worded this inaccurately, then obviously it changes completely, but if the grandfather is Irish-born, then his children (in this case the inquirer's mother) are automatically citizens, with subsequent generations having to explicitly apply.

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

Unfortunately the poster is already born before the mother has undertaken this process so has no right to Irish citizenship through the mother - the first Irish born relative to the poster is a great grandparent, which is one generation too far away.

As above, to me that's not necessarily the obvious interpretation of what was posited, but would be helpful if the OP could clarify, obviously.

AGC

osarusan wrote: »

I think your mother is still entitled to citizenship and a passport as she has a grandparent born in Ireland, but she needed to avail of this entitlement before you were born for you to be able to avail of it also.

Spot on

Cosmo Kramer

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

My wife is currently going through this process and unfortunately I don't think this interpretation is correct.

My reading of it is that the poster's grandparent was born in Britain. The poster's great-grandparent was born in Ireland. As such the poster's grandparent, although not Irish born, is considered to be an Irish citizen. The poster's mother is not an Irish citizen but can become one by filling in the relevant forms and paying the applicable fee (around £300).

Unfortunately the poster is already born before the mother has undertaken this process so has no right to Irish citizenship through the mother - the first Irish born relative to the poster is a great grandparent, which is one generation too far away.

However, any theoretical children the mother has after going through the citizenship application process could become Irish citizens as citizenship can be passed on indefinitely as long as it was obtained by the parent before the child was born.

Hope that helps OP, even if it was not the answer you were hoping for.

For what it's worth I am far from convinced that the final version of Brexit, if it happens at all, will be one that restricts free movement between Britain and the EU so you might yet be able to move freely to Europe with your UK passport.

Superb post and thank you very much for taking the time.

I unfortunately came to the same conclusion as you but posted here in case I misinterpreted it.

I also agree with you on your last paragraph but it’s akways better to know your options and be ready and able to avail if necessary.

Thanks again.

osarusan

osarusan wrote: »

I think your mother is still entitled to citizenship and a passport as she has a grandparent born in Ireland, but she needed to avail of this entitlement before you were born for you to be able to avail of it also.

Where were your mother's parents born?

Liverpool as far as we know but there is a very slim chance one was born in Ireland so we will now have to do a small family tree to make sure.

cython

cython wrote: »

My interpretation is predicated on the below:

I'd interpret that as being that the grandfather is originally from Roscommon and simply qualifies the term family, as opposed to the grandfather's parents being from Roscommon, with him being born outside Ireland. If the OP has worded this inaccurately, then obviously it changes completely, but if the grandfather is Irish-born, then his children (in this case the inquirer's mother) are automatically citizens, with subsequent generations having to explicitly apply.

As above, to me that's not necessarily the obvious interpretation of what was posited, but would be helpful if the OP could clarify, obviously.

So in short -

I was born in Liverpool.

My mother was born in Liverpool.

My grandparents were born in Liverpool.

My great grandparents were born in Roscommon.

There is however a small chance one of my grandparents was born in Ireland so I will now have to proceed and obtain all this information once and for all.

A lot of the information I have is different from one family member to another so I will have to do my research officially/properly now.

Thanks again for all the contributions.

FelaniaMump

If your gp was born in Ireland then yes you are entitled, if your ggp then no.

AGC

FelaniaMump wrote: »

If your gp was born in Ireland then yes you are entitled, if your ggp then no.

Unless FBR has been been passed through to parent before child looking for FBR is born