Worried about future resentment if we do/don't get married

LegacyUser

So, I'm in a great relationship for the past 18 months. We're very kind to each other and happy and pretty much in the happiest place of our lives. We've been living together for 3 months and although this was a terrifying prospect for both of us having lived alone for a number of years we've been incredibly surprised at how much closer we've gotten in this time.

We're both in our lateish 30's, very sure we've found our life-partners in each other so have decided to try to have a baby in about 4 months, when we're cohabiting a more sensible amount of time (to be sure, to be sure, as my granny would say)

Anyway, despite having traditional views on everything, at the same time all of these discussions started my boyfriend has indicated his views on getting married are less than traditional "Unnecessary" is the term he used.

Might be worth noting here that in the past, fairly early doors, he has made a few comments that indicated he did want to get married, so I always assumed we were on the same page there...as in "I'm looking for a wife" like, joking, but he said it!!! And when we attended a wedding and had a great time he said the venue was great and he would consider it worth the cost...

We also had several conversations about weddings, and we agreed that people waste a lot of money getting married and his narrative was always that he'd prefer to do things lower key.

So, this was a surprise. But, in his defence, it's the first real conversation where we've discussed the prospect of us getting married, so, everything else was just commentary.

The actual conversation we had was around having a baby and not being married and what my family would think. He indicated he wouldn't worry too much about that. I said "Do you not agree with marriage?" he said "I don't think it's important or necessary". He then asked what I felt and I said that I wasn't too worried about the order that things happened but I would be very disappointed if it wasn't in my future at some point. Now to be clear here, he didn't resist, he said "OK, well we can look at it" and the conversation (which hasn't been revisited) hasn't impacted our relationship.

But, if I'm totally honest, I've always wanted to get married and have a proper family. Not for my relatives but for me.....

However, having discussed this with my girlfriends I also feel like I love him, I know he loves me and I could probably stamp my feet and get what I want but that, to me, would take all the warmness of someone wanting to marry me away from the situation......like, I really want to do it because I want him to WANT to marry me. Not to feel like it's something he has to do reluctantly to make me happy....and potentially resent me for it.

Similarly, I'm worried that going with the flow, having kids, embracing our relationship and just being happy to have him in my life and enjoying our life together and not getting married might cause me to resent him, like further down the line.

Either way, I feel like only one person can win and I'm worried that if the only way to proceed is by one of us compromising that resentment might be inevitable.

The other potentially relevant factor which I feel might be contributing to this is that he has a lot more money than me, and a huge amount of family money, (I'm pretty ok financially too, in no way dependent on him, as are my family, but it's a fraction of where he is at) and I get that we're not together a huge amount of time so, he's possibly viewing himself as quite vulnerable there.....I know how bad that sounds and where we all want to live in a world where love conquers all, but I actually empathise with him. I don't want him to have feelings of vulnerability or fear and if there was a way to get married in this country that would allow him to protect himself fully It would probably be the magic pill in this situation.

Either way, I feel like it's something we need to clear up before we start trying to have a baby. I just wonder if anyone has experienced anything similar or if maybe my thinking is totally outdated and I'm being unfair to want to get married? Is there any real benefits to getting married? Should I just go with the flow and leave it all open to chance?

Thanks

Sittingpretty

Mountain. Molehill. Springs to mind.

Marriage just isn’t as important or relevant to some people or they don’t feel the romantic/emotional side of it.

I’m with my now husband over 10 yrs+. We had children before being married and we got married just under 2 years ago because I wanted him to have proper rights to his own children should anything happen to me. I can totally get where your partner is coming from. I saw being married as a necessity and a box ticking exercise rather than a massive emotional day. It’s not that I’m an unfeeling person, I just don’t get all the fuss which is unusual for a woman I suppose.

To be quite honest having children with someone is a FAR bigger commitment to someone than being married to them.

loalae

My husband and I had a similar discussion when I got pregnant. We were engaged anyway but he wanted to get married before the baby was born and I thought it was unnecessary.

I felt that I had already committed myself to him and I felt confident that he was committed to me. I didn't feel that a marriage certificate would enhance that and I didn't want to do something just because it was expected or more acceptable. Perhaps your partner is thinking along similar lines?

Like you, I understood that one of us would get their own way and the other would have to stand down. As it was more important to him for us to be married before the baby than it was for me to wait until he was born, I relented and we had a tiny civil ceremony.

I guess the message I want to give is that you need to figure out if this is a battle that is important to you to win. If so, keep at it and make it clear how important marriage is to you. Then he will need to decide whether not getting married is more important to him than your feelings about it. Communication is the only way out of this situation!

Idle Passerby

Marriage is a legal contract. It exists to ensure inheritance rights/tax issues and custody of children in the event of unforseen circumstances. It sounds like he's ambivalent rather than against getting married. Lots of people see marriage as a purely romantic gesture (that aspect of it is in realistic terms, unnecessary) they don't realise that in practical terms it's more about legalities and tax. With plans for a child it makes practical sence to consider marriage. Talk to him about the practical reasons why it would be a good idea.

Calypso Realm

I suspect this is why he may have changed his tune at this point.

Since you've already moved in with him, before discussing and firming-up your future plans ie marriage etc, in my view you've taken away any incentive he may have had beforehand, to get married in future. Why would he be inclined to change now when he's getting all of the benefits of a relationship without the need for any further commitment on his part? Now you're talking about having a child together, he knows he's got even less reason to fear losing you! Call me old-fashioned but I firmly believe people and guys especially, need a reason (that essentially benefits them) before they'll step-up and ramp up the relationship a notch to the next level!

Addle

As I could use my spouse's unused tax credits and rate band, being married actually pays our ESB Bill.
Only reason we did it.

Addle

There might come a time when it will be a financial benefit to get married-its as good an argument for marriage as any!

Toots

Also something to bear in mind is if you're not married, legally he's not your next of kin. One of my friends recently had a baby and wasn't married to her partner (She actually found out she was pregnant he day they were supposed to go looking at their first potential venue so decided to hold off til the baby was born) Anyway, when she went into labour, she needed a section and she had to sign a whole pile of forms beforehand, apparently not all of them were needed but it was "just in case" because her partner wasn't her next of kin, so couldn't sign them in the event that something went wrong. Apparently it would have had to be her mum, which would have been difficult enough cos she lives in Scotland.

It's not the be all and end all, but it's practical things like that to bear in mind. If ye wanted, ye could just do a quick legal one, just yourselves and two witnesses.

Daisy78

frettingforwhat wrote: »

But, if I'm totally honest, I've always wanted to get married and have a proper family. Not for my relatives but for me.....

There are plenty of "proper" families out there where mummy and daddy are not married, and they work out perfectly fine. Thankfully we are a long way from the days where only a married (male/female) couple with kids constituted a proper family.

Leaving that aside you'll have to decide what your priority is, a relationship with a man you love with whom,hopefully you will have a child or two.Or you call it quits altogether. As you said yourself coercing someone into marriage kind of takes the meaning out of it entirely. For me personally I have no interest in marriage, even if children were to come along at some point. I know some won't agree with that stance but it's a personal decision at the end of the day. All you can do is have a frank and honest discussion with him, set your cards on the table and see if he is open to even considering marriage at some stage in the future.

LegacyUser

I think everyone has made really good points and I agree with them that a good relationship doesn't need a marriage cert, but that having one makes a difference for tax, inheritance, medical decisions etc.

What would worry me though is the change in attitude from the 'im looking for a wife' to suddenly not interested.... I see guys do that a lot. In their late teens/20's fair enough, they do it cos they don't want to get 'tied down'...but I would've thought at this stage most people looking for a partner are looking for just that- a steady commitment..and I'd be concerned that his statements recently seem to indicate that 'push back' mentality, the try to keep free idea that frankly at this stage would set alarm bells ringing... He sounds as like he was all for marriage when ye met and now has flip flopped...

Henry Schweser

Calypso Realm wrote: »

I suspect this is why he may have changed his tune at this point.

Since you've already moved in with him, before discussing and firming-up your future plans ie marriage etc, in my view you've taken away any incentive he may have had beforehand, to get married in future. Why would he be inclined to change now when he's getting all of the benefits of a relationship without the need for any further commitment on his part? Now you're talking about having a child together, he knows he's got even less reason to fear losing you! Call me old-fashioned but I firmly believe people and guys especially, need a reason (that essentially benefits them) before they'll step-up and ramp up the relationship a notch to the next level!

Using fear of loss as an incentive is malicious.

Calypso Realm

Henry Schweser wrote: »

Using fear of loss as an incentive is malicious.

Yes, and I would say more accurately manipulative behaviour, IF that is the intention behind it-clearly not the case here. Nor have I suggested doing this. I was merely pointing out, human nature being what it is, this guy knows the OP isn't going anywhere!

ginandtonicsky

Could he be pulling a Chandler and pretending he doesn't care too much about marriage so as to not spoil the surprise?

That was the first thing that came to my mind tbh. Wouldn't be the first time I've seen it!

In any case, I don't agree that having the conversation and expressing that marriage is important to you and you'd like to make some sort of plan for it down the line is a bad idea or would take away from any kind of proposal he might make at some stage. If you're going to build a life and a family with this man, you're going to need to get used to having these big conversations. My own folks are married almost 40 years and there was no grand proposal or #Isaidyes fanfare, they simply decided it made sense to get married and started organising.

Set your emotions aside around the romance of it all and talk to him about it as a legal thing that could improve both of your lives and your future family's life. Tax breaks, next of kin, medical stuff.

18 months in and living together / planning a baby shows that this man is committed. It's also a lot, I know that time is of the essence etc but it is a lot of life-changing commitment in a pretty short time period. Maybe he can't digest marriage right now for that fact alone. Lots of people say a lot of stuff in those early days of dating, it's easy to throw out ideas about your life and how you think it should be in an entirely hypothetical sense before you've even got the prospect of a wife or a family in front of you. So I wouldn't put too much stock in that "he said he was looking for a wife!" thing either.

professore

A couple of things, I've seen many couples live happily together for 5+ years with kids etc and then get married only to split up shortly afterwards.

If he's worried about you taking half his stuff etc in the event of a divorce living with him 5 years gives you the same rights as being married to him and vice versa in terms of what happens to houses, money etc if you split. It gives him far less rights to see any children you have together than if you were married. So marriage is a better deal for him if that's what he's worried about.

Other than that, maybe he's planning a big proposal, a friend of mine just did recently after 11 years and various romantic holidays where he admits himself she was expecting him to propose and he didn't.

LegacyUser

OP here.

Thanks all for the helpful and useful input.

So, after a few drinks I raised this again the other day. Turns out his stance of "unnecessary" referred to it be an unnecessary requirement in his view to be married BEFORE having children. He said marriage is certainly not off the table but he feels we are not together long enough yet for him to make that kind of "for the rest of our lives" commitment. In his opnion, we've only really had good times, holidays and new relationship excitement and nice dates and times together so our relationship hasn't been tested in the time we've been together.

We've had very few disagreements and since both of us are fairly easy-going, considerate, empathetic and non-confrontational all of our disputes are fairly uneventful and quickly buried, so, we might be waiting a while for the test he is looking for. All that said, I'm a bit irked that he is uncertain, knowing how certain I am. But, it's his first ever serious relationship and he was also incredibly unsure about us moving in together which raised the same irky feeling in me and he was very quick to express his regret at that when we did make the move which ultimately has been wonderful.

So, I guess I'm just going to enjoy how happy we are and in a few months we'll revisit the baby thing and see where we are at then. I've thought about it a lot so, I think I'll just need to know we have the same end-goals and accept that our timing may be slightly different.

Ultimately I want him to be happy and comfortable and pushing this issue isn't going to serve me or him. I'm pretty confident we'll get there eventually.

Thanks again all and happy new year

Idle Passerby

If he feels it's too soon for the commitment of marriage why is he willing to go ahead with having a child? That's an infinitely bigger commitment. The test he's looking for will likely turn out to be parenthood. I wouldn't be happy to have a baby as a relationship "test".

ginandtonicsky

Yeah I’m a bit mixed here. Here’s right that 18 months is not a long time, but it’s time enough for him to want to start a family with you? Or is the baby decision based entirely on your age and worries about leaving it too late?

Perhaps his lack of relationship experience is really showing here. IME dating men with significant relationships under their belt has led to less of this kind of commitmentphobic type of carryon in general.

Emme

Idle Passerby wrote: »

If he feels it's too soon for the commitment of marriage why is he willing to go ahead with having a child? That's an infinitely bigger commitment. The test he's looking for will likely turn out to be parenthood. I wouldn't be happy to have a baby as a relationship "test".

I know that being married makes no difference, you could end up separated and being a single mother either way but I feel that a child has more protection if the parents are married.

However you said that you are in your late 30s in your first post so you may want to have a child sooner rather than later. In this case you may have to compromise if you want a child, take a leap of faith and have the child before you get married (if you get married). It all depends how badly you want to have a child. Many women have children on their own. It isn't easy but you say that you are OK financially. Would your finances support you if the relationship didn't work out and you had a child on your own?

Not everyone will agree with me but the older women get the more compromises we have to make in relationships particularly if we want children.

If you and your OH decide to get married would you be happy to sign a pre-nup if he proposed it? I know they aren't that binding legally but in the case of one partner being significantly better off than the other they sometimes suggest it before getting married.

Marriage is not necessary in a relationship but honesty and commitment definitely are. Be sure he is being honest with you and is fully committed to you if you want to have a child with him before getting married.

LegacyUser

His lack of experience is really showing and id be hesitant to have a child with him if he thinks that is less of a commitment than marriage..unless you go into it happy you could end up a single mum once reality kicks in.

ChrissieH

Hi OP,

I know you've kind of half-satisfied yourself with the second conversation you had with your partner since you posted, but I just wanted to throw my tuppence worth into it all - I'm a woman in my early 40s and was never interested in marriage or children. I wholeheartedly think that marriage is unnecessary but I still got married 3 years ago because I changed my stance from "No, nay, never!" to "ah sure I'll give it a go" because I knew my partner regarded marriage as being somewhat important and I was open-minded enough to realise that a committed relationship wasn't based solely on what I wanted, so I went ahead with it.
Resentment is not an issue whatsoever for me, however I did find it hard to settle for the first year of marriage - I can't put it into words because I don't know the exact reasons; I could list a whole lot of things about my husband that bothered me that I hadn't seemed to be aware of before this (after 8 years living together!!) but I guess it must have been some sort of subconscious death-rattle of my stubbornness dying away.. I really don't know.
The point I'm making is that even though I didn't care one bit about getting married and still stand by my opinion that it was utterly unnecessary, I did it and we're fine and there's absolutely no resentment but that possibly did depend on the fact that I didn't feel in any way pressured into doing it, and as some of the other posters have said, 18 months isn't really long enough for someone who's ambivalent about marriage to change a lifelong viewpoint on it.
And to be fair, even though he passed remarks about "looking for a wife" and the niceness of the wedding venue you attended, that's all just throwaway expressions and conversational chat; I mean, everyone can bandy the words "hubby" and "wifey" about without it being in any way meaningful, and most of us will remark on a wedding venue if it's our first time there, so while I know you weren't saying that he was practically proposing to you by making these remarks, the fact that you did think enough of them to include them in your background story kind of sounds like you were more ready to meet a potential spouse than he might have been.. it's no harm, people commit at different times in relationships depending on lots of factors. He was probably delighted with the relationship and making lovey-dovey comments in his elated state.. now that's worn off a bit, he's being more cautious and taking his time to think things through a bit more. The fact that you're in your 30s and this is his first serious relationship kind of hints that he's maybe not one to be spontaneous, romantic or impulsive, no matter how much he might love you.

LegacyUser

OP here.

Yea a lot of this is down to his inexperience. It's hard because at times I know he's being OTT but I can't be the one to tell him without seeming desperate or like I have an agenda.

There's a few things he's done that have been a little hard on me, in terms of understanding how committed he is and months later he's mentioned it to his friends who've been totally shocked that he would say/do that to me....then he comes back and apologises and explains that he's finding his way and it's all new to him. I understand him now though, I know he's committed to me and committed to having children while we are young(ish) and healthy.

He's a lot of lifelong friends since school, all of them are married to girls they met and dated for 8-10 years before getting married. He only mentioned a girl he grew up with a few months ago who was "marrying some guy she's been with for 5 minutes" and when I asked how long 5 minutes was, it was 3 years....

His sister got married during the summer to her partner of 7 years...maybe he's conditioned.

Either way, I know our steady plans are to buy a house together and do the baby thing this year, so, he's pretty committed, in his own way.

I know I can force his hand and probably get things done my way sooner if I really want to but it means more to me to let it happen organically.....eventually. I'm clear about what I want but that also includes him feeling like he got there because he was ready, not because he was pushed

Emme

frettingforwhat wrote: »

OP here.

Yea a lot of this is down to his inexperience. It's hard because at times I know he's being OTT but I can't be the one to tell him without seeming desperate or like I have an agenda.

There's a few things he's done that have been a little hard on me, in terms of understanding how committed he is and months later he's mentioned it to his friends who've been totally shocked that he would say/do that to me....then he comes back and apologises and explains that he's finding his way and it's all new to him. I understand him now though, I know he's committed to me and committed to having children while we are young(ish) and healthy.

He's a lot of lifelong friends since school, all of them are married to girls they met and dated for 8-10 years before getting married. He only mentioned a girl he grew up with a few months ago who was "marrying some guy she's been with for 5 minutes" and when I asked how long 5 minutes was, it was 3 years....

His sister got married during the summer to her partner of 7 years...maybe he's conditioned.

Either way, I know our steady plans are to buy a house together and do the baby thing this year, so, he's pretty committed, in his own way.

I know I can force his hand and probably get things done my way sooner if I really want to but it means more to me to let it happen organically.....eventually. I'm clear about what I want but that also includes him feeling like he got there because he was ready, not because he was pushed

He sounds immature. If you want a baby be prepared for him to bail - he might not but he doesn't seem to know his own mind and he's chopping and changing. I know you're afraid to push him but he could go on like this for 10 years and then decide he wants out. You need to look after yourself and decide what it is you really want. He has time on his side when it comes to having children, you don't.

witchgirl26

Loveinapril wrote: »

The practical benefits of marriage would be preventing issues around gaurdianship of any children, next of kin and inheritance tax.
18 months and 3 months or 7 months) living together doesn't seem like a very long time to be planning a child if you are not very clear on such a big issue like marriage, but I understand that you are probably considering your biological clock. I have noticed that the issue of marriage seems like a bigger commitment to some men than having a child, could this be a factor? To be honest, I wouldn't have considered having a child outside of marriage , I just wanted the added security of next if kin and gaurdianship for my potential kids. I felt stronger about that than my husband did about not getting married (he used to say he could take it or leave it but I think that changed the longer we were together). You will resent him if you go against your gut feelings so just make sure he knows how important it is to you.

Just on this - the laws around guardianship of children born outside marriage have changed in the past few years. My sister's 4 year old was born before they got married and her dad had to register himself as a guardian but my friend who's little girl is 1 didn't have to do that for the father - if he was on the birth cert, he has guardianship rights automatically. I have also looked into it as myself & my partner are having a baby but not married yet.

Idle Passerby wrote: »

If he feels it's too soon for the commitment of marriage why is he willing to go ahead with having a child? That's an infinitely bigger commitment. The test he's looking for will likely turn out to be parenthood. I wouldn't be happy to have a baby as a relationship "test".

Some guys think a lot differently. My cousin is a grade A commitment phobe and mention marriage and he'd run a mile. However he is happily settled with his partner & two kids. Go figure. She gave him the choice of marriage or kids and he picked kids.


OP it could be that your other half just doesn't want to feel pushed into it all, especially if he hasn't had serious relationships before. I know people who were like that and didn't want to feel like others or society was pushing them to do something but that it was their own decision. Yes it's a bit annoying but they get there in their own time.

Pelvis

frettingforwhat wrote: »

OP here.

Yea a lot of this is down to his inexperience. It's hard because at times I know he's being OTT but I can't be the one to tell him without seeming desperate or like I have an agenda.

There's a few things he's done that have been a little hard on me, in terms of understanding how committed he is and months later he's mentioned it to his friends who've been totally shocked that he would say/do that to me....then he comes back and apologises and explains that he's finding his way and it's all new to him. I understand him now though, I know he's committed to me and committed to having children while we are young(ish) and healthy.

He's a lot of lifelong friends since school, all of them are married to girls they met and dated for 8-10 years before getting married. He only mentioned a girl he grew up with a few months ago who was "marrying some guy she's been with for 5 minutes" and when I asked how long 5 minutes was, it was 3 years....

His sister got married during the summer to her partner of 7 years...maybe he's conditioned.

Either way, I know our steady plans are to buy a house together and do the baby thing this year, so, he's pretty committed, in his own way.

I know I can force his hand and probably get things done my way sooner if I really want to but it means more to me to let it happen organically.....eventually. I'm clear about what I want but that also includes him feeling like he got there because he was ready, not because he was pushed

Those two sentences don't really add up together being honest.

His reasoning makes zero sense. He's prepared to have a child with you but he's a bit flakey on marriage? Say wuuut.

You want to get married, this is a big deal for you, rightly or wrongly. IMO you shouldn't buy a house and start a family with someone when their intentions are not clear, hoping it will "just happen". Personally, I think you may end up disappointed.

Also, he's in his late 30's but this is his first serious relationship? That on its own would concern me.

osarusan

frettingforwhat wrote: »

Either way, I know our steady plans are to buy a house together and do the baby thing this year, so, he's pretty committed, in his own way.

I wouldn't necessarily interpret his hesitance on marriage as a sign that there are commitment issues. You'll have to judge that.

If you believe that he is committed to the point that he plans to spend the rest of his life with you as a family...then his hesitance on marriage isn't really a commitment issue, it's something else.

It it that he just thinks marriage only happens after a relationship has been going for 5+ few years?

Do you think, that if you wait, it will happen organically, just another 3-4 years down the line? Would you be willing to wait that long?

Idle Passerby

His reasoning is illogical. He'll happily make a lifelong emotional/financial commitment to you and another person he has yet to meet. But signing a (disolvable) contract with you is too long-term? I don't think he's really thought about the reality of any of these eventualities. That would concern me. Does he understand that if you guys have a baby he will be expected to take responsibility regardless of whether his relationship with you lasts?