Cant take much more of this

LegacyUser · 26-12-2018 1:14am #1

Hi All,

I'm in my early twenties and recently graduated from college, straight after graduation i got a job with a big accounting firm in Dublin, during this time i received psychiatric treatment due to a suicide attempt. My reason for that was my quality of life, i was working very long hours in a stressful environment, commuting from Laois to Dublin everyday as I couldn't afford rent in Dublin and having no social life at all due to exhaustion as well as saving every penny i could in case of emergencies.

Recently I finished my contract with this firm and got a job close to my parents house (working for a bank) with a salary of 31k, I asked my parents if I could move back in to which they agreed - and finally I thought I could have a bit of a break.

My parents are both on disability allowance and receive HAP (or Rental Supplement I cant remember which), when I started my job I agreed to give them 20% of my salary, I also do my own cooking, buy my own groceries, do my own cleaning etc...

Today during Christmas dinner my dad notified me they will be losing the HAP due to my salary, before I could say anything he began insulting me. He told me I was only making excuses because he never had any problems with the rental sector and that as a high earner I shouldn't have any problems either and that I'm just entitled and get money "handed out to me". I explained to him the only reason I have a good job is because I worked hard in college and at my previous role and got good references.

He continued to belittle me throughout the entire dinner, saying that a monkey could do what I do, that I don't know what real hardship is because they (my parents) allow me to live at their cost he also called me ungrateful because he wanted me to lend him 4k for a car and that he should have let me starve as a child because I owe everything to him.

I really just don't know what to do, I can't afford the rents in any location near my work place and I really don't want to commute again. Ever since I started working I've lost my friends (due to not socializing), I haven't traveled anywhere or really done anything apart from working..I just need some advice from someone impartial to this situation.

Thanks in advance and apologies for the long post!

LegacyUser · 26-12-2018 2:09am

<SNIP>

Hi op,

Sorry to hear that. I'll try and give you an answer looking at both sides here.

Firstly well done to you on qualifying and getting a job in the area you qualified in. The hours in accountancy firms are incredibly long, so well done for sticking it out.

Now, to get to the part of your parents finances, you might not like the sound of what I am going to say, but it sounds like your parents are frustrated and annoyed after losing their HAP.
I don't condone the things your dad said to you but if this outburst was a once off and not a regular pattern of behaviour (which would be abusive in my opinion) then it seems like he was venting and saying things in the heat of the moment that he will reget. Fear is often the real emotion behind intense anger. As both of your parents receive disability allowance, they are highly dependent on their funding and allowances. So for them to get the news that this has been cut must be terrifying for them, especially as the system requires so much red tape and paperwork to get any funding or allowance in the first instance.

However op, I do agree that you financially are in a position to houseshare. In reality, you are an adult, who has finished education and is earning 31000 a year, that's a decent salary, people on far less manage to rent a room and depending on what part of the country one is living in, even rent an apartment or house! You need to move out and start living independently.

Rubberchikken · 26-12-2018 2:18am

has he always been like this? reason i ask is most parents are happy for their child. happy to see them graduate then get work and have a life.
he seems begrudgingly unhappy and im wondering if he's always like this or is he unwell.

im not excusing what he said as it had to hurt your feelings.
is there anyway you could rent, even a room.in a house?
maybe he's more worried about losing the rent allowance that he's able to say.
some people on disability feel ashamed and might lash out rather r than admit how they feel.

rani24 · 26-12-2018 2:33am

First of all what i know there is nothing to do for HAP about your salary its not related by any connection only if you are mention in there contract that you are living with them. And about what he said you cant do nothing they are your parents at the end but you can try to understand why he said that and i guess maybe he is in stress to lose the HAP.

nsi423 · 26-12-2018 2:49am

Dublin is so expensive. But not everywhere is as bad. Getting a job near home probably looked like it was a no brainier, but if your family are hard to live with and your 'home' friends are not a big part of your life right now like your said, then you could look for a job somewhere else in the new year... Limerick is one place that has lower cost of living and it's also full of 'blow ins' so it is possible to find a new crew.

LegacyUser · 26-12-2018 2:51am

I know how you feel I live at home with my parents at the moment too because it’s just way too expensive to rent, but mine are fair and supportive, I just make sure to do things around the house and they appreciate that, but point it out to your’s , it’s not your fault they have lost their hap and they’re taking it out on you just stand your ground and make sure to prove you have been helping out and what it would be like if you were gone! If that doesn’t help you should sit down and have a serious convo with them to see if they are happy to have you there or if they prefer you go, at least you can say to them “now you know”... you said your in Laois there might be some opportunities for you in Kilkenny where you could house share and meet some new people! ☺️ Hope this somewhat helps I came on to look for the RTÉ guide thread and couldn’t not reply to you! Just think of yourself and what’s best ðŸ‘Œ

Arrival · 26-12-2018 3:57am

Yeah, I'd be moving out at the first possible opportunity, even if it meant relocating to another city and getting another job, and never speaking to that horrible, bitter begrudger. **** that guy and anyone like him. He's your father, he should be delighted for you and building your confidence, encouraging you to grow and succeed further. You don't have time in this life to consciously allow such negativity to continue

JupiterKid · 26-12-2018 4:29am

Move out ASAP and get a house share arrangement. Long commuting is soul destroying. And your difficulties are yet another example of the fallout from the housing crisis and how it is literally tearing families apart.

I would also suggest keeping a good distance between you and your father for the foreseeable future as he sounds bitter and toxic. He should be proud of you - not begrudging and somewhat jealous of your early career success. If there are issues with the HAP eligibility, why didn’t he have a word about his concerns with you in private rather than choose to ruin your Christmas dinner by such a disclosure? Actually he just sounds like a nasty piece of work - you owe him nothing.

Make arrangements to move out ASAP. Yes it will be stressful but it can’t be as bad as living in such a toxic environment.

Bubbaclaus · 26-12-2018 4:31am

Your father ahouldnt have said those things, but many of my work colleagues are renting in Dublin on 26k salaries (starting salary in the role). You should easily be able to rent a room on 31k gross.

leggo · 26-12-2018 9:46am

Yeah, like they say if you are spending 30% of your salary on rent/mortgage that you’re financially healthy. On 31k you could afford a house share with 30% and it sounds like it’d be good for your mental health. The thing is, your dad is clearly wrong here, but at his age nothing is likely to change, so all you can really do is change your own circumstances. It could be good for your relationship too: absence makes the heart grow fonder and all (my relationship with my Mam improved immensely once I moved out), you get full control over when they see you and you also take the “you owe us” card off the board because you’re not dependent on them in any way anymore.

Also, it goes without saying but it worth adding anyway, but don’t take these comments to heart. He likely isn’t well saying them and they’re total BS.

The_Honeybadger · 26-12-2018 11:57am

Sounds like you have paid your way since you moved back in. Your father is completely out of order and should have picked a more opportune time to discuss his concerns.

I would agree with the above posters, move in to a houseshare asap and get away from him. If you are already giving them 20% of your salary and buying all your own food it’s not going to be a massive stretch.

splinter65 · 26-12-2018 11:57am

rani24 wrote: »

First of all what i know there is nothing to do for HAP about your salary its not related by any connection only if you are mention in there contract that you are living with them. And about what he said you cant do nothing they are your parents at the end but you can try to understand why he said that and i guess maybe he is in stress to lose the HAP.

HAP is means tested. The tenant (OPs parents) have to tell the LA if someone else (the OP) is living there, and that persons wages are taken into account.
So the OPs parents have lost their entitlement to financial help from the LA to pay the rent and must now pay all the rent themselves.
They have also lost the free tv license and electricity allowance from DSP.

splinter65 · 26-12-2018 12:02pm

Cookiechick wrote: »

I know how you feel I live at home with my parents at the moment too because it’s just way too expensive to rent, but mine are fair and supportive, I just make sure to do things around the house and they appreciate that, but point it out to your’s , it’s not your fault they have lost their hap and they’re taking it out on you just stand your ground and make sure to prove you have been helping out and what it would be like if you were gone! If that doesn’t help you should sit down and have a serious convo with them to see if they are happy to have you there or if they prefer you go, at least you can say to them “now you know”... you said your in Laois there might be some opportunities for you in Kilkenny where you could house share and meet some new people! ☺️ Hope this somewhat helps I came on to look for the RTÉ guide thread and couldn’t not reply to you! Just think of yourself and what’s best ðŸ‘Œ

They’ve lost the HAP because he’s living there. The rent has now to be paid in total by the tenants. They’ve also lost other SW benefits because he’s living there.

vectorvictor · 26-12-2018 12:05pm

Just some practical advice, sorry this happened over Christmas and hopefully when things calm down you will be able to mend bridges.

However on 31k there is no reason to be living at home and bringing stress on your parents. Your in your twenties, their job is done. You will pick up a house share well within your budget with a bit of work and compromise on location/commuting.

It is always a grim alternative to home comforts but that's how most people have to start with independent living.

You will also most likely qualify for social housing support in your own right (I believe about 35k is the upper threshold) though you may need to get your parents to write a letter evicting you (sounds like that will be an easy one

)

splinter65 · 26-12-2018 12:20pm

Arrival wrote: »

Yeah, I'd be moving out at the first possible opportunity, even if it meant relocating to another city and getting another job, and never speaking to that horrible, bitter begrudger. **** that guy and anyone like him. He's your father, he should be delighted for you and building your confidence, encouraging you to grow and succeed further. You don't have time in this life to consciously allow such negativity to continue

This is a bit much, don’t you think? Both parents are on disability so both parents have serious health problems. They probably did want to help and support their child but didn’t realise all the consequences for themselves. Neither did the OP.
Losing HAP is a disaster. When the OP moves out they will have to reapply and jump through hoops to prove that he’s no longer living there, and all the while they will be paying the rent out of their SW payment. Same goes for the SW benefits they have lost. Horrible bitter begrudger is a bit much.

LegacyUser · 26-12-2018 1:07pm

Hi All, OP here thank you so much for the advice provided.

First I just want to clear some misconceptions, I moved back in with my parents in November I hadn't been living with them for 2 years now and all of that time I was renting.
During my time renting my rent was never below 35% of my income, the place that I rented the longest was 45% of my income and that's for rent alone which was when I decided to move to Laois and commute (4 hours per day as my job was in south dublin), I also note here that I have never rented my own place, I've always shared as I cannot afford to rent on my own.

One of the main reasons I asked my parents to move back in was not just because of the proximity to work and cost of rent but also the insecurity in the rental market. All of which were prompting me to emigrate and I thought it would be a good opportunity to save. I was constantly in fear my LL would sell up or someone would move back in etc... because it was always happening. Just before I moved back in a friend of mine (who was sharing a studio with 4 people) had her LL bang on her door at night and telling all the tenants they had to be out by the end of the week. This kind of stuff was constant.

Also, regarding my dad, unfortunately yes he has always been like this. If it was his illness I wouldn't care but all my life he has always taken every opportunity to mock me and my achievements and everything that I've ever done he would always lecture me on how he could have done better. I didn't know about the HAP as I thought my parents were renting from the council as the council has always found them homes, my parents have never had to deal with Landlords themselves and their rent has never exceeded 80 per week even when they were both working. 80 was always the max they paid from what I remember so I thought they were renting from the council as that's who they pay rent to..

I assure you moving back in was not an easy decision to make and was mostly driven by my decision to emigrate, I'm also still recovering from a suicide attempt and worried about renting with others when my mental health is not doing so well (but maybe I'm overthinking this)..otherwise I'd have moved already even though I haven't started my new job yet..

Bubbaclaus · 26-12-2018 1:48pm

splinter65 wrote: »

This is a bit much, don’t you think? Both parents are on disability so both parents have serious health problems. They probably did want to help and support their child but didn’t realise all the consequences for themselves. Neither did the OP.
Losing HAP is a disaster. When the OP moves out they will have to reapply and jump through hoops to prove that he’s no longer living there, and all the while they will be paying the rent out of their SW payment. Same goes for the SW benefits they have lost. Horrible bitter begrudger is a bit much.

Did you read the OP and what he said to his son? Horrible bitter begrudger is being kind.

AndrewJRenko · 26-12-2018 1:50pm

Are you sure this is a big issue for him, or was it just drink fuelled nonsense?

JupiterKid · 26-12-2018 2:13pm

Yes, losing HAP is terrible but surely the OP's father could have told the OP about the situation well before yhe Christmas dinner? In any case the LA/DSP would have notified the OP's parents about their SW and HAP being at risk given that their son was living there rather than just immediately cutting off their prior entitlements overnight.

I get the feeling a good bit of alcohol might have been involved in that Xmas dinner row. Alcohol truly ruins so many Christmas days in this booze-soaked country...

splinter65 · 26-12-2018 2:34pm

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Did you read the OP and what he said to his son? Horrible bitter begrudger is being kind.

I read the OP and in fairness that’s all you know about the father too. Is that fair?
Money management is a very emotive subject for people dependent on benefits as the parents are. It’s very very stressful. Getting a letter telling you that your losing one of the most important and difficult to get benefits is devastating. If your sick too (as he is) it makes it more stressful and then add on the ludicrous pressure of Christmas and like many families around the country yesterday it exploded like a volcano over the turkey and the tinsel.
Yes the father is probably a dick head but the fact that he let his son come back to live with them when he’d already been gone for a while would tell me he’s not really as bad as he could be.
I’m just in a position where I can see the other side of the story. That’s all.

rani24 · 26-12-2018 2:37pm

splinter65 wrote: »

HAP is means tested. The tenant (OPs parents) have to tell the LA if someone else (the OP) is living there, and that persons wages are taken into account.
So the OPs parents have lost their entitlement to financial help from the LA to pay the rent and must now pay all the rent themselves.
They have also lost the free tv license and electricity allowance from DSP.

But what if she left parents house? Do they still count her in the account?

splinter65 · 26-12-2018 2:42pm

JupiterKid wrote: »

Yes, losing HAP is terrible but surely the OP's father could have told the OP about the situation well before yhe Christmas dinner? In any case the LA/DSP would have notified the OP's parents about their SW and HAP being at risk given that their son was living there rather than just immediately cutting off their prior entitlements overnight.

I get the feeling a good bit of alcohol might have been involved in that Xmas dinner row. Alcohol truly ruins so many Christmas days in this booze-soaked country...

Probably intended to get Christmas over first Jupiter but as you know well all it takes is a couple of Sherry’s and WW 111 is going on.
DSP would have written and said that “as your circumstances have changed you no longer have an entitlement to Household Benefits”. End of story. Next week you get a demand for a TV license and your electric allowance disappears.
LA would send you a “review” form which asks you to list everyone living in the house and send evidence of everyone’s income.
Bear in mind that they know the OP is now living there and his name would already be on the form with a space beside it for his income.
There would be no warning in that letter that you may lose or have your entitlement to HAP reduced as that would be interpreted by some as threatening.
The next letter simply tells you that your household income exceeds the limit for your circumstances and that your entitlement to HAP has ceased.
In order for it to be fair for everyone and because benefits are paid from taxes which are deducted from everyone via revenue and vat, then people lifestyle choices “I want to live at home to save on rent etc” can’t be taken into account when deciding who gets what.

Defaulter1831 · 26-12-2018 2:43pm

justfedup wrote: »

Hi All, OP here thank you so much for the advice provided.

First I just want to clear some misconceptions, I moved back in with my parents in November I hadn't been living with them for 2 years now and all of that time I was renting.
During my time renting my rent was never below 35% of my income, the place that I rented the longest was 45% of my income and that's for rent alone which was when I decided to move to Laois and commute (4 hours per day as my job was in south dublin), I also note here that I have never rented my own place, I've always shared as I cannot afford to rent on my own.

One of the main reasons I asked my parents to move back in was not just because of the proximity to work and cost of rent but also the insecurity in the rental market. All of which were prompting me to emigrate and I thought it would be a good opportunity to save. I was constantly in fear my LL would sell up or someone would move back in etc... because it was always happening. Just before I moved back in a friend of mine (who was sharing a studio with 4 people) had her LL bang on her door at night and telling all the tenants they had to be out by the end of the week. This kind of stuff was constant.

Also, regarding my dad, unfortunately yes he has always been like this. If it was his illness I wouldn't care but all my life he has always taken every opportunity to mock me and my achievements and everything that I've ever done he would always lecture me on how he could have done better. I didn't know about the HAP as I thought my parents were renting from the council as the council has always found them homes, my parents have never had to deal with Landlords themselves and their rent has never exceeded 80 per week even when they were both working. 80 was always the max they paid from what I remember so I thought they were renting from the council as that's who they pay rent to..

I assure you moving back in was not an easy decision to make and was mostly driven by my decision to emigrate, I'm also still recovering from a suicide attempt and worried about renting with others when my mental health is not doing so well (but maybe I'm overthinking this)..otherwise I'd have moved already even though I haven't started my new job yet..

It sounds like your father needs a dose of his own medicine. I'd be inclined to tell him if he was such a great man how come he never achieved much, even when healthy. Tell him to stop projecting his own failures and doubts on to you.

Then get out of that environment as quickly as possible and make your own way in life and don't ever darken his door again. If you find the strength to do this it will work wonders for your self esteem and mental health.

splinter65 · 26-12-2018 2:50pm

rani24 wrote: »

But what if she left parents house? Do they still count her in the account?

If she leaves her parents house then they can reapply for the HAP but it’s a pain in the butt and they’d have to show evidence that she was living at a new address. All the while it’s being processed the landlord still wants his rent and they’re paying all of it out of €396 per week.

splinter65 · 26-12-2018 2:53pm

Defaulter1831 wrote: »

It sounds like your father needs a dose of his own medicine. I'd be inclined to tell him if he was such a great man how come he never achieved much, even when healthy. Tell him to stop projecting his own failures and doubts on to you.

Then get out of that environment as quickly as possible and make your own way in life and don't ever darken his door again. If you find the strength to do this it will work wonders for your self esteem and mental health.

You have no idea what the father achieved or what obstacles he overcame. The OP is a guest in his parents house. Giving the father a dose of his own medicine and cutting himself from his parents over a Christmas row is not very good advice at all imo.

Defaulter1831 · 26-12-2018 3:31pm

splinter65 wrote: »

You have no idea what the father achieved or what obstacles he overcame. The OP is a guest in his parents house. Giving the father a dose of his own medicine and cutting himself from his parents over a Christmas row is not very good advice at all imo.

I'm taking the OP on their word. If this 'father' was such a success in life he'd be able to allow his son or daughter stay with them without such insults. This father doesn't sound very manly and at Christmas time of all times..

All we have is the OPs word to believe or not. It may be a false representation of the father but if i trust the integrity of the OP that is my conclusion.

So the OP should take the father's bile and let it fester inside them? Better tolive a day as alion than a lifetime as a lamb.

Defaulter1831 · 26-12-2018 3:37pm

splinter65 wrote: »

If she leaves her parents house then they can reapply for the HAP but it’s a pain in the butt and they’d have to show evidence that she was living at a new address. All the while it’s being processed the landlord still wants his rent and they’re paying all of it out of €396 per week.

All this talk of HAP is crap tbh. You're rationale is bizarre, so because someone is a guest in another's house the house owner should have the right to insult at will?

Also to the OP, if rent was 50% of your earnings..get out. Buy your groceries in Aldi etc. The issue isn't one of money on either side just decent human values of respect. A proper parent/child relationship should be one of love.

That man really took the Christianity out of Christmas. And if he constantly does it he's a nasty bitter so and so.. It's not just a Chritmas row.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 26-12-2018 3:40pm

It’s strange nobody worked out the hap situation beforehand. However the op should indeed get out of such an environment.

splinter65 · 26-12-2018 5:19pm

Defaulter1831 wrote: »

All this talk of HAP is crap tbh. You're rationale is bizarre, so because someone is a guest in another's house the house owner should have the right to insult at will?

Also to the OP, if rent was 50% of your earnings..get out. Buy your groceries in Aldi etc. The issue isn't one of money on either side just decent human values of respect. A proper parent/child relationship should be one of love.

That man really took the Christianity out of Christmas. And if he constantly does it he's a nasty bitter so and so.. It's not just a Christian row.

But the row was really about the loss of the HAP, a major financial blow to the OPs parents that they hadn’t budgeted for before they let him move back in, because they didn’t realise the financial implications at the time.
If the father was such an abusive person then why did the OP decide to move back in with them...and spend Christmas with them? The last thing I would do is move back in with someone who had been horrible to me all my life.
It’s not my “rationale” it’s just the plain truth. It’s the parents house. They are the householders. The OP is living there under their rules. If he doesn’t like his fathers attitude (remember, he knew what he was like before he moved back in) then he should just find somewhere else quickly and leave. He doesn’t really have any bargaining tools.

splinter65 · 26-12-2018 5:23pm

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

It’s strange nobody worked out the hap situation beforehand. However the op should indeed get out of such an environment.

HAP is still new relatively speaking. Means testing of social housing is still less than 10 years old. Before that anyone was entitled to social housing irregardless of income. It wasn’t unusual to find council houses with two + very nice cars outside and the very latest of everything inside.
The parents are probably still operating on that mentality.

Defaulter1831 · 26-12-2018 6:01pm

splinter65 wrote: »

But the row was really about the loss of the HAP, a major financial blow to the OPs parents that they hadn’t budgeted for before they let him move back in, because they didn’t realise the financial implications at the time.
If the father was such an abusive person then why did the OP decide to move back in with them...and spend Christmas with them? The last thing I would do is move back in with someone who had been horrible to me all my life.
It’s not my “rationale” it’s just the plain truth. It’s the parents house. They are the householders. The OP is living there under their rules. If he doesn’t like his fathers attitude (remember, he knew what he was like before he moved back in) then he should just find somewhere else quickly and leave. He doesn’t really have any bargaining tools.

The OP stated the abuse has beeen going on a long time. Also if you were suicidal and fearfull of moving in with strangers you might go back to the familiar. It's pretty common in all sorts of abuse situations. I doubt the father and mother are going to starve.

Anyone who puts their own flesh and blood down like that is bad news.

Again this is based on the OP's information being accurate.

Cant take much more of this

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