Meditation = nonsense???

Dacia1300

Who agrees with me?

Personally I think it’s complete & utter bollockology.

Think about it. How is putting oneself in a state of non-doing & non-thinking supposed to be beneficial?

When I go for a run I intermittently collect my thoughts & I find that to be quite therapeutic.

When I’m working I don’t have time to think about anything other than the job at hand.

Even drinking a pint quietly I think to myself & I find that to be very useful.

So why all the hype about meditation, eg all those ads for things like Headspace???

Franz Von Peppercorn

It doesn’t do a lot for me but there’s evidence that it works.

Also you seem to be able to control bad thoughts or runaway thoughts so you may not need it.

xabi

You are doing a form of meditation in all those things you mentioned, so you are basically saying it does work.

RWCNT

It's very benificial for a lot of people but I agree that you can get into a similar state doing other things.

I find it useful if I'm about to do something I'm nervous about like an interview or a presentation.

Dacia1300

xabi wrote: »

You are doing a form of meditation in all those things you mentioned, so you are basically saying it does work.

True to an extent maybe but I’m either in a state of doing or thinking, sometimes both, but never neither.

Placing oneself in a state of non-thinking & non-doing surely is a mug’s game & a waste of time

Pyr0

Dacia1300 wrote: »

True to an extent maybe but I’m either in a state of doing or thinking, sometimes both, but never neither.

Placing oneself in a state of non-thinking & non-doing surely is a mug’s game & a waste of time

It helps people who are constantly on the go, thinking or worry about stuff every minute of the day to switch off, not everybody wants to being in a state of thinking or doing all of the time.

Wibbs

Seems to depend on individuals and their personalities. Like the fashion de jour "mindfulness", where you start to think about how you're feeling in the moment or whatever. For me personally if I wasn't at least vaguely conscious of how and what I was feeling in the moment and my surroundings I'd avail of the services of a shrink as something would be seriously awry.

There can be a lot of quackery around it with various often self appointed guru types peddling it. A large element of placebo would be involved, which in of itself is not always a bad thing. Many mainstream therapies and medicines have elements of that, antidepressants for example.

Foweva Awone

I incorporate a lot of mindfulness into my life. I find it helps keep my anxiety under control. I occasionally meditate too but it can be tedious.

Dacia1300

Dacia1300 wrote: »

Who agrees with me?

Personally I think it’s complete & utter bollockology.

Think about it. How is putting oneself in a state of non-doing & non-thinking supposed to be beneficial?

When I go for a run I intermittently collect my thoughts & I find that to be quite therapeutic.

When I’m working I don’t have time to think about anything other than the job at hand.

Even drinking a pint quietly I think to myself & I find that to be very useful.

So why all the hype about meditation, eg all those ads for things like Headspace???

I'm on the same page, being occupied in the moment as opposed to a deliberate effort to do so. I find this more constructive than deep breathing exercises designed to instill a sense of calm through focus on the act itself etc. I'd rather be engaged than self-aware, but each to their own.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Wibbs wrote: »

Seems to depend on individuals and their personalities. Like the fashion de jour "mindfulness", where you start to think about how you're feeling in the moment or whatever. For me personally if I wasn't at least vaguely conscious of how and what I was feeling in the moment and my surroundings I'd avail of the services of a shrink as something would be seriously awry.

There can be a lot of quackery around it with various often self appointed guru types peddling it. A large element of placebo would be involved, which in of itself is not always a bad thing. Many mainstream therapies and medicines have elements of that, antidepressants for example.

When it comes to something that affects mind state anyway, a placebo is as good as the real thing.

Franz Von Peppercorn

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'm on the same page, being occupied in the moment as opposed to a deliberate effort to do so. I find this more constructive than deep breathing exercises designed to instill a sense of calm through focus on the act itself etc. I'd rather be engaged than self-aware, but each to their own.

That’s just natural mindfulness though.

_Brian

I think it’s about everyone finding their own thing that works.

Calling something rubbish because you can’t do it is very narrow minded but a really common problem these days.

Live and let live, find what works for you and be happy with that, accept that other things work for other people.

I’ve used audio guided meditation and it’s fine. Sometimes I get great relaxation out of mundane tasks where I’m working away without doing much thinking.

Spanish Eyes

Listening to podcasts has a great calming effect on me. No ads (well the ones I use anyway) and it is just for the moment.

Doesn't require any work either which is a bonus. Other than that, the three second breathing thing works in very stressful situations, well for me anyway. Breathe in for three, hold for three, blow out for three, hold for three, rinse and repeat. Gets you grounded.

WhiteMemento9

Dacia1300 wrote: »

True to an extent maybe but I’m either in a state of doing or thinking, sometimes both, but never neither.

Placing oneself in a state of non-thinking & non-doing surely is a mug’s game & a waste of time

The point is that we are constantly in a state of thinking about the past or the future or trying to actively do something. Often you completely miss the present moment and the ability to just exist in it. I haven't given mediation a proper go so I can't vouch for the degree to which it helps but I know it certainly is a problem for myself at times. Usually, times, when I am happiest, are those when I can just exist in the present moment so deeply that my lack of thought drowns the noise that I am not actively doing anything other than existing.

It is a much happier place at least in my head although I am not saying you can live life in that way as we all need to have some concept of the past and future to help learn and guide us. I think a good balance does exist though but increasing it a world of distractions it has become much harder to just enjoy the present moment. The sad thing is your life is always the present moment and spending too much time not actually in it and you will miss your life. I appreciate that may sound a little wishy-washy but the experience of the world is completely different when you are in that kind of frame of mind.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

That’s just natural mindfulness though.

Fair point, although I'm reluctant to ascribe a label to a daily rhythm entrenched as normal routine.

Spanish Eyes

Anxiety is real for a lot of people. As someone else said it is the product of what will happen, what has happened or what might happen etc.

It is not easy to move such thoughts out of your head, but it can be done. It is life today I think, but there are ways to calm those thoughts down.

Vincent Vega

Hmmm.

The only people who could possibly agree are those who have not been disciplined enough in their meditation practice for it to be beneficial.

Dacia1300

Dacia1300 wrote: »

Who agrees with me?

Personally I think it’s complete & utter bollockology.

Think about it. How is putting oneself in a state of non-doing & non-thinking supposed to be beneficial?

When I go for a run I intermittently collect my thoughts & I find that to be quite therapeutic.

When I’m working I don’t have time to think about anything other than the job at hand.

Even drinking a pint quietly I think to myself & I find that to be very useful.

So why all the hype about meditation, eg all those ads for things like Headspace???

xabi wrote: »

You are doing a form of meditation in all those things you mentioned, so you are basically saying it does work.

There could be a profitable business in this one. The Guinness Mindfulness Moment.

take everything

Dacia1300 wrote: »

True to an extent maybe but I’m either in a state of doing or thinking, sometimes both, but never neither.

Placing oneself in a state of non-thinking & non-doing surely is a mug’s game & a waste of time

It's not about not thinking.
It's about attending to things, including thoughts.

Attention, not thought is what it's all about.

People call it bollocks because they're calling the wrong thing bollocks.

Junkyard Tom

There was a guy who tired to start teaching classes in levitation but it never took off.

I don't do it myself, intentionally anyway. I like to nap during the day and find the time around that to be very calming. My brother meditates and it helps him with his work which requires a calm head.

For doing so much thinking OP, you come across as a bit closed-minded. People do it because it helps them. Deeming it a waste of time is the classic "I don't like it so why would anyone else?" mentality of someone who can't see further than their own experiences.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Dacia1300 wrote: »

Who agrees with me?

Personally I think it’s complete & utter bollockology.

Think about it. How is putting oneself in a state of non-doing & non-thinking supposed to be beneficial?

When I go for a run I intermittently collect my thoughts & I find that to be quite therapeutic.

When I’m working I don’t have time to think about anything other than the job at hand.

Even drinking a pint quietly I think to myself & I find that to be very useful.

So why all the hype about meditation, eg all those ads for things like Headspace???

The two things you mentioned you do are both examples of meditation!!

simongurnick

Dacia1300 wrote: »

Who agrees with me?

Personally I think it’s complete & utter bollockology.

Think about it. How is putting oneself in a state of non-doing & non-thinking supposed to be beneficial?

When I go for a run I intermittently collect my thoughts & I find that to be quite therapeutic.

When I’m working I don’t have time to think about anything other than the job at hand.

Even drinking a pint quietly I think to myself & I find that to be very useful.

So why all the hype about meditation, eg all those ads for things like Headspace???

Going for a run seems like the most useless usee of time where are you going? Where did you come from?

Canis Lupus

Opening on the chakras etc. No.

Taking some quiet time out. Yes.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

simongurnick wrote: »

Going for a run seems like the most useless usee of time where are you going? Where did you come from?

... Cotton eye Joe?

AllForIt

Mediation = chilling out

Esse85

Meditation is like putting your phone in aeroplane mode and charging it for 10-15 mins having been using it constantly all day.

NIMAN

Donal Skehan does it, which for me means it must be a load of balls

https://www.independent.ie/life/food-drink/us-irish-might-roll-our-eyes-at-it-but-i-lean-into-hot-yoga-and-meditation-donal-skehan-on-minding-his-mental-health-37651099.html

4068ac1elhodqr

Meditation (when done right) is hard science, not a fad. It's not quite the same as 'mindfulness', but not a millions miles away.
Normal everyday alert (inc stress elevation) concentration levels: 14-30 (Hz) brain wave frequency/patterns.

‘Meditative states’:
Alpha 8 - 13.9
Theta 4 - 7.9
Delta .1 - 3.9

Each state has it’s own characteristics and benefits.
Most people doing pleasurable or relaxing ‘mindfulness’ activities
would only be dancing around the upper-mid alpha states.

With practice you can achieve near instant lower Alpha 8Hz, within 10-20secs
Concious deeper states of meditation can all each offer enhanced capabilities.

SmartinMartin

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

There was a guy who tired to start teaching classes in levitation but it never took off.

That's because he was tired.
I do a lot of tree logging. I have to concentrate totally when I'm using the chainsaws, but when I'm splitting logs I go into a different plane of thought, and often come out the other side either with a solution to a problem or a feeling of happiness, or both. I get the same feeling after servicing one of the cars or tractors, or fixing some mechanical problem. I don't think I could sit and meditate, but I completely understand it.

Grayson

Depending on the type of meditation the effects can be different.

The most common today is mindfulness and there have been proper academic studies on it. It's been shown to reduce anxiety, increase concentration & awareness and just generally be good for your state of mind.

I took it up a few years ago, however I'm a pretty rational person so I did look up the academic studies first. I was impressed with what I found.

Meditation is one of those thing you imagine someone who's into crystal healing would be into. It's tainted by that association. That's unfortunate because it's genuinely good for you.

Edit to add: the op says you're putting yourself into a state of non thinking. He's only half right. The point is to be able to accept the distractions that are there and focus on something else like your breathing. It't pretty much practice at not being distracted by either external stimuli or by your own thoughts/feelings.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

NIMAN wrote: »

Donal Skehan does it, which for me means it must be a load of balls

https://www.independent.ie/life/food-drink/us-irish-might-roll-our-eyes-at-it-but-i-lean-into-hot-yoga-and-meditation-donal-skehan-on-minding-his-mental-health-37651099.html

Everyone does it. The might not practice mindfulness (the act of trying to focus all your attention on one sense or one aspect of the body, such as the heartbeat - which - correct - won't work for everyone) or yoga (a more physical form of the same thing) but we all do something to try and tun out distractions and focus the mind on one aspect of life.

Dacia1300

Dacia1300 wrote: »

Think about it. How is putting oneself in a state of non-doing & non-thinking supposed to be beneficial?

I have been a practitioner of meditation coming up for 10 years now. Specifically Vipassana meditation. And I can only tell you that "non-thinking" does not in any way remotely describe what I am doing when I do it.

"non-doing" is optional though. For example I put a lot of the techniques of it into practice while running my 10k runs.

There is as you point out some hype and nonsense around the subject though and unfortunately the single word "meditation" seems to encapsulate a lot of nonsense, some charlatan spiritual mystical woo, and some genuinely useful practices. The trick is telling the difference and understanding why it is different. If you have any specific questions - let me know!

M.T. Cranium

Let me think about it.

begbysback

some1gr8

As somebody who is living with long term illness which effects my mood/ thinking. I go through normal state and depressed state depending on my med working or not..( its not bipolar).. The op seems like seeing somebody hving bad cough/cold and telling urself that i can deal with cold/cough alot better than him ( i am not criticizing op , i had same thinking before i was diagnosed that i am too strong to hv mental illness). Its not something in ur control. When i am in normal state and i always tell myself not lose calm and not to make any decision. But whdnever depressed state comes ( its only last for hour mostly until my meds kicks-in. ) even something small would piss me off and i would behave in such way that i would not do in normal condition. Even though i am always fully aware of the fact that its temporary but its v hard to control my actions. I have become alot better due to self mediation and my wife/ family support but its not something in my control or harder to control , i would not wish it on my worse enemy.