MIC

seanaway

Hi


I hope it's ok to post a question like this here but I couldn't find another forum on electrics.


I'm looking to rent a small retail unit for a takeaway type cafe. I have had several discussions with electricians about this but need to know the following as it is holding up progress.

I will be using little by way of equipment. 1 fryer (either 6kw or 10kw depending on the final answers I get), other equipment/lighting would total around 5-6KWs.

The electrician has told me the standard MIC on a retail shop is 12KWs/single phase.


My questions are:
Is 12KW the standard for a retail premises? (Single phase I know is standard)
If I go over this do I pay more per KW I use and is there an issue with fuseboards blowing etc?

GIven the loads I am describing, is 12KW sufficient for my needs. I will not be running all the equipment at the same time so I can't see needing more than 12kw.



Thanks

2011

There is no “standard”.
The MIC should reflect the customer’s requirements.

See link: https://www.electricireland.ie/business/help/billing/what-is-the-maximum-import-capacity-(mic)

Maximum Import Capacity (MIC) is the upper limit on the total electrical demand you can place on the network system, so it should be high enough to meet the requirements of your business.

seanaway

2011 wrote: »

There is no “standard”.
The MIC should reflect the customer’s requirements.

See link: https://www.electricireland.ie/business/help/billing/what-is-the-maximum-import-capacity-(mic)

Thanks. That's what I thought but an electrician said 12kw was the 'norm'. I guess it depends on what the previous busines was doing. Upgrading to 3 phase is just too much money. ESB said around 2k ina quote but I woul dneed a new board to meet the new regs. That added 4k to th eprice plus possible outside work on one premises which woul dbring it to +/- 10k.



That's why I thought I'd ask here. So if it is 12kw would that likely be enough for what I am using? ESB networks site says in their experience the MIC is never usually as large as the sum of the equipment being used.


All very confusing.

2011

12 kW is generally fine if you have a few lights and a socket or two for something like a small newsagents. Obviously this would not be sufficient for a McDonnalds and you are somewhere in between.

If you have a 10 kW fryer it will use 10 kW continuously from cold until the thermostat kicks in. If the remaining loads are (as you say) 5 or 6 kW then you have exceeded the 12 kVA MIC by at least 3 or 4 kVA.

As you can see from the definition from Electric Ireland the MIC should not be exceeded.

A 16 kW load will draw a minimum of 69.5 amps. A 12 kVA MIC will normally be fused at 63A. As you can imagine a current this high will stress the fuse. This dramatically increases the likelihood of it failing. Not a good place to be!

seanaway

2011 wrote: »

12 kW is generally fine if you have a few lights and a socket or two for something like a small newsagents. Obviously this would not be sufficient for a McDonnalds and you are somewhere in between.

If you have a 10 kW fryer it will use 10 kW continuously from cold until the thermostat kicks in. If the remaining loads are (as you say) 5 or 6 kW then you have exceeded the 12 kVA MIC by at least 3 or 4 kVA.

As you can see from the definition from Electric Ireland the MIC should not be exceeded.

A 16 kW load will draw a minimum of 69.5 amps. A 12 kVA MIC will normally be fused at 63A. As you can imagine a current this high will stress the fuse. This dramatically increases the likelihood of it failing. Not a good place to be!

Thanks. So my thinking about going for a 6kw fryer makes more sense then. As I say, I won't be running everything at the same time.


Can I ask one other dumb question?


If the MIC is 12kw can I increase this more easily, say to a 20kw single phase instead of going three phase? What I mean is, would I still have the same problems with new boards etc...?

2011

This isn’t the area I work in but I am pretty sure that the largest single phase supply available is around 15 kVA, certainly not 20 kVA.

If you are ever going to get a 3 phase supply it will be cheapest to get it now. Obviously a smaller fryer will impact on your output.

It is easy to make a 3 phase board single phase, not always easy to do the reverse.

seanaway

2011 wrote: »

This isn’t the area I work in but I am pretty sure that the largest single phase supply available is around 15 kVA, certainly not 20 kVA.

If you are ever going to get a 3 phase supply it will be cheapest to get it now. Obviously a smaller fryer will impact on your output.

It is easy to make a 3 phase board single phase, not always easy to do the reverse.

Cheers. That's about what I understood ok. The option of doing 3 phase is just way too expensive for me. €7-10k is what I've got as quotes so I'll stick it out until I find somewhere with 15kv or 3 phase already in.
Thanks a million for all your help. Really useful info.

Tuco88

16kva can be got. "Enhanced supply"

If you look at the esb website you can also get a 20kva in single phase "special connection" iv never seen one nor familure in whats involved.

Risteard81

2011 wrote: »

This isn’t the area I work in but I am pretty sure that the largest single phase supply available is around 15 kVA

16kVA for an enhanced single phase supply.

sparcocars

A single phase connection of 20 or 29 kva is also available but there would not be a standard connection fee. You may incur some of the costs of upgrading the parricular network involved so as to facilitate your connection.

Similar to how the 3 phase connections fees work.

The above single phase connections are provided through single phase CT metering. All of which fits in a standard domestic meterbox.

icylava

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/108865206#Comment_108865206

How much time did you wait (from application submission) until you got the quote for upgrading to 3-phase from ESB Network?

Calahonda52

I appreciate you are renting so 3Ph will cost you.

However, I do lots of energy audits and for places such as yours most struggle with single phase gear and as 2011 and others have mentioned, near maxing out the MIC capacity is not good.

You don't mention coffee but most of the good rigs I see are 3ph, same with DF friers: there is also a much wider range of gear, but its not my money.

Good luck and send us an invite for the open day

Sleeper12

I know it's an old thread but I'm assuming there was no gas going to the building. Most fish & chip shops use gas for the deep fat frying.