Low Emission bus trials start today in Dublin and Cork

CatInABox

TFI are starting to trial some new low emissions buses in Dublin and Cork starting today. You can see them on route 9 in Dublin, and route 207a in Cork, but you can't get on them yet.

https://twitter.com/TFIupdates/status/1072150602745081858

https://twitter.com/TFIupdates/status/1072150960343056384

https://twitter.com/TFIupdates/status/1072151470798184448

Yay!

Difficult to find much detail on it though, any links describing specs?

CatInABox

Deleted User wrote: »

Yay!

Difficult to find much detail on it though, any links describing specs?

Absolutely nothing. It's like a massive secret. If anyone in Cork or Dublin see one of these things out in the wild, mind taking a picture?

Stephen15

I heard they were meant to be on the 25a/b but they'll actually be on the 9 but they'll just be running the course of the route and not actually picking up passengers. Is there a particular reason they won't be in passenger service anytime DB have trialled buses in the past such as wheelchair accessible ones in the late 90s they ran them in passenger service.

I wonder what they'll go for in the end I'd say it will be something from Wright's similar to the SG as that would be cheaper for DB due to common parts with the bodywork.

john boye

Stephen15 wrote: »

I heard they were meant to be on the 25a/b but they'll actually be on the 9 but they'll just be running the course of the route and not actually picking up passengers. Is there a particular reason they won't be in passenger service anytime DB have trialled buses in the past such as wheelchair accessible ones in the late 90s they ran them in passenger service.

I wonder what they'll go for in the end I'd say it will be something from Wright's similar to the SG as that would be cheaper for DB due to common parts with the bodywork.

Previous hybrid trials haven't been great so might be best to keep it OOS until they're satisfied with it. It may well be on the 25s if/when it enters service.

Dravokivich

Yeah, my recollection last time round with hybrids, there was frequent breakdowns. (One might have gone on fire, or was that a different bus they were testing?) They might want to break in the vehicles first before even considering running a service with'em.

Busman Paddy Lasty

Specs would be interesting. Hybrids that don't go on fire could suit North-South routes like the 9.

Wait and see.

Stephen15

Dravokivich wrote: »

Yeah, my recollection last time round with hybrids, there was frequent breakdowns. (One might have gone on fire, or was that a different bus they were testing?) They might want to break in the vehicles first before even considering running a service with'em.

It went on fire when it was sold in the UK after DB got rid of it.

ax586

This is what is in Go-Aheads depot

Stephen15

ax586 wrote: »

This is what is in Go-Aheads depot

Why are Go-Ahead participating in this surely they should be they should focusing keeping the drivers for their tendered services.

devnull

Stephen15 wrote: »

Why are Go-Ahead participating in this

Because they won a tender for it.

liamog

Interesting that they reference electric vehicles specifically, does that mean they are likely to test an all electric model?

Stephen15

devnull wrote: »

Because they won a tender for it.

Yes but they shouldn't have bid if they are going to be taking drivers off their PSO routes.

devnull

Stephen15 wrote: »

Yes but they shouldn't have bid if they are going to be taking drivers off their PSO routes.

I'm sure they have spare drivers - not like a bus company only has enough drivers to run their schedule and nothing else.

Stephen15

devnull wrote: »

I'm sure they have spare drivers - not like a bus company only has enough drivers to run their schedule and nothing else.

True but it appears that Go-Ahead are struggling so far with the routes they've taken up. It could because of a lack of drivers. Personally I think they should be focusing on their PSO routes until they're fully up and running.

ax586

Stephen15 wrote: »

True but it appears that Go-Ahead are struggling so far with the routes they've taken up. It could because of a lack of drivers. Personally I think they should be focusing on their PSO routes until they're fully up and running.

Plenty of drivers signed up for it and in fairness Go-Ahead would have experience with these buses as they use them in London

Engineercorps

Why waste time with hybrids in a city situation fully electric could do the job.. far less complicated to fix a battery and a motor rather than a hybrid

Macha

Why are they trialling low-emissions? They should be going for zero emissions at this stage, given the time it will take to roll them out across the fleet.

In Brussels, they already have fully electric buses operating lines.

Engineercorps

Macha wrote: »

Why are they trialling low-emissions? They should be going for zero emissions at this stage, given the time it will take to roll them out across the fleet.

In Brussels, they already have fully electric buses operating lines.

I second that motion.. hybrid is more or less a fat at this stage no matter how much it's pushed..
But hey it's impossible to get zero emissions just look where the electricity comes from..

Look up the TOSA project in Geneva it's a sight to behold

L1011

There are very few electric double deckers and I believe none proven in the west, our city centres are not suited to articulated single deckers and we need the capacity that doubles provide

This should change, eventually

Engineercorps

L1011 wrote: »

There are very few electric double deckers and I believe none proven in the west, our city centres are not suited to articulated single deckers and we need the capacity that doubles provide

This should change, eventually

There are tons of electric buses running throughout Europe.

Look up zeeus report I can't post links yet

L1011

Engineercorps wrote: »

There are tons of electric buses running throughout Europe.

Look up zeeus report I can't post links yet

All single deckers

liamog

How did the BYD Metroline Electric Double Deckers get on in London, are they still in use?

Cookie_Monster

L1011 wrote: »

There are very few electric double deckers and I believe none proven in the west, our city centres are not suited to articulated single deckers and we need the capacity that doubles provide

This should change, eventually

Aren't most of the london fleet hybrid, certainly noticed loads when I was there in 2016.
Can't tfi not just get data from tfl, why are non customer usage trials needed in virtually the same operating conditions?

Macha

Engineercorps wrote: »

I second that motion.. hybrid is more or less a fat at this stage no matter how much it's pushed..
But hey it's impossible to get zero emissions just look where the electricity comes from..

Look up the TOSA project in Geneva it's a sight to behold

Yes you're right about it not being zero emissions until the electricity s zero emission but that is improving all the time and any improvement on that side is instantaneous thoroughout the country's electric fleet.

Compare that to an improvement in the internal combustion engine or hybrid engine that would take 10-20 years to be reflected in the whole fleet of vehicles. Maybe less time for captive fleets as they have faster replacement rate.

Stephen15

ax586 wrote: »

Plenty of drivers signed up for it and in fairness Go-Ahead would have experience with these buses as they use them in London

That's true alright but I don't think Go-Ahead will get any hybrids in service as all their fleet is SGs, GTs and Streetlites. Apparently a few Wright bodied London hybrids have already been seen around the city centre.

bk

In another forum, folks have mentioned the following buses being trialled:

- Enviro 400h
- Wright StreetDeck Hybrid
- Volvo B5LH with Gemini 3 body

All pretty common hybrids that have been running around London for years.

Dravokivich wrote: »

Yeah, my recollection last time round with hybrids, there was frequent breakdowns. (One might have gone on fire, or was that a different bus they were testing?) They might want to break in the vehicles first before even considering running a service with'em.

Hybrids were pretty new back then. There are over 3,000 operating in London now, so likely far more reliable.

Engineercorps wrote: »

Why waste time with hybrids in a city situation fully electric could do the job.. far less complicated to fix a battery and a motor rather than a hybrid

Engineercorps wrote: »

There are tons of electric buses running throughout Europe.

Look up zeeus report I can't post links yet

The problem is all the electric buses are single deck.

There have only been trials of two EV double deckers anywhere in the world and the trials don't seem to have gone well.

The biggest issue is where do you put the batteries. That is easy in a single decker. You just put them on the roof. But you can't do that in a double decker (makes them too high and top heavy). In the two buses trialled, they just put the batteries in the back of the bus on the lower deck. But then you lose two rows of seats and thus passenger space compared to the hybrids.

The tech just doesn't seem to be there yet for Double Deckers. I suspect we will need to wait for battery tech to continue to improve and become more dense, so that it can fit without taking up so much space, but still have the necessary range.

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Aren't most of the london fleet hybrid, certainly noticed loads when I was there in 2016.
Can't tfi not just get data from tfl, why are non customer usage trials needed in virtually the same operating conditions?

Yes, about 3,000 of them.

I think some of the ones they are trialling aren't currently used in London, so they would need to test them to fairly compare them.

Best for them to get their own accurate, independently tested emissions results, given the whole Diesel gate mess. I wouldn't be trusting info from anyone else.

A couple of weeks trialling seems to be a good idea for what will likely become all new buses bought here over at least the next 5 years.

Engineercorps

Macha wrote: »

Yes you're right about it not being zero emissions until the electricity s zero emission but that is improving all the time and any improvement on that side is instantaneous thoroughout the country's electric fleet.

Compare that to an improvement in the internal combustion engine or hybrid engine that would take 10-20 years to be reflected in the whole fleet of vehicles. Maybe less time for captive fleets as they have faster replacement rate.

Bet I can't see this country ever getting zero emission energy unless they run an electro wave generation machine around our coasts. I know the guy that patented it an according to him "they don't have the budget" and keep pushing stupid wind farms

dublinman1990

Here's one of the trial buses going back to London United's depot while it departs from Phibsboro/Broadstone depot in Dublin 7.

Jonathan McDonnell has 2 photos of it here on Flickr. It is VH45255.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/48073612@N04/46445354461/in/faves-91538517@N02/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/48073612@N04/46412193412/

Stephen15

More SGs are due to enter service in coming weeks. I thought that only hybrids will be delivered from 2019 onwards or will we have to wait until 192 deliveries or 2020 before hybrids actually enter service? Unrelated but also they're in DB livery not TFI livery so when will DB actually be getting buses in TFI livery same as GAI buses.

RuleNumber6

Stephen15 wrote: »

More SGs are due to enter service in coming weeks. I thought that only hybrids will be delivered from 2019 onwards or will we have to wait until 192 deliveries or 2020 before hybrids actually enter service? Unrelated but also they're in DB livery not TFI livery so when will DB actually be getting buses in TFI livery same as GAI buses.

Surely until the trials are complete, and tendering process for provision of hybrids carried out, none will be ordered, let alone delivered, for quite some time.