Re: Hard Water photo in the WTF thread

cnocbui

The original copper cylinder lasted 18 years. The new one is s/s so I wouldn't think it would need a sacrificial anode? Moot really as I plan on selling up and emigrating soon anyway and the new cylinder would outlast the original by a good bit I would think?.

Same for water treatment, as I plan on leaving I wouldn't think it worth my while to pay for a system as i wouldn't be getting the cost back on the sale price.

What do they cost to install and run, out of interest?

Wearb

I only know that they are sometimes needed, especially if you have your own well. Hopefully someone who know a bit about them will reply.

John.G

cnocbui wrote: »

The original copper cylinder lasted 18 years. The new one is s/s so I wouldn't think it would need a sacrificial anode? Moot really as I plan on selling up and emigrating soon anyway and the new cylinder would outlast the original by a good bit I would think?.

Same for water treatment, as I plan on leaving I wouldn't think it worth my while to pay for a system as i wouldn't be getting the cost back on the sale price.

What do they cost to install and run, out of interest?

How long did it take the coil to heat the water given that amount of limescale?.

Sleeper12

John.G wrote:

How long did it take the coil to heat the water given that amount of limescale?.

It's expensive for sure. If op wasn't selling I'd be concerned about the cost of running an electric shower, washing machine, dishwasher etc. Water softening system would pay for its in a few years in that house

cnocbui

John.G wrote: »

How long did it take the coil to heat the water given that amount of limescale?.

I don't really know. Always seemed to be HW when needed and the immersion would take about 15-20 min for a shower if there wasn't enough.

cnocbui

Sleeper12 wrote: »

It's expensive for sure. If op wasn't selling I'd be concerned about the cost of running an electric shower, washing machine, dishwasher etc. Water softening system would pay for its in a few years in that house

I don't have an electric shower - waste of time. I have a Stuart Turner 3 bar pump and installed it so the whole house gets hot and cold water via the pump. Life is too short for gravity fed water pressure.

John.G

cnocbui wrote: »

I don't really know. Always seemed to be HW when needed and the immersion would take about 15-20 min for a shower if there wasn't enough.

That's very interesting, it looks as if most of the limescale initially came from the coil and probably fell off with the flexing of the coil, you might have carried on for a few more years if the coil hadn't leaked.

Andy From Sligo

cnocbui wrote: »

I don't really know. Always seemed to be HW when needed and the immersion would take about 15-20 min for a shower if there wasn't enough.

did it used to give out a noise like a boiling kettle with all that limescale? - also could the thermostat have been set too high in the first place, have heard sometimes if the stat is set to high in the cylinder it can produce too much limescale as well - too low and can produce the bugs that give you legionnaires disease.

mine it factory set to 60'c ... would have been new cylinder installed in 2008 or therabouts but even with that i can still hear it kettling sometimes just before the stat cuts out.

Andy From Sligo

cnocbui wrote: »

I don't have an electric shower - waste of time. I have a Stuart Turner 3 bar pump and installed it so the whole house gets hot and cold water via the pump. Life is too short for gravity fed water pressure.

and your hot water coming from??? - is it coming from copper tank heated with electric immersion heater or combi boiler or normal oil boiler?

John.G

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

did it used to give out a noise like a boiling kettle with all that limescale? - also could the thermostat have been set too high in the first place, have heard sometimes if the stat is set to high in the cylinder it can produce too much limescale as well - too low and can produce the bugs that give you legionnaires disease.

mine it factory set to 60'c ... would have been new cylinder installed in 2008 or therabouts but even with that i can still hear it kettling sometimes just before the stat cuts out.

I don't think you should get kettling from the hot water coil? but should/might get it from the electric immersion element if that is covered in limescale.

Sleeper12

John.G wrote:

I don't think you should get kettling from the hot water coil? but should/might get it from the electric immersion element if that is covered in limescale.

I'd expect it from the immersion or an electric shower.

Andy From Sligo

John.G wrote: »

I don't think you should get kettling from the hot water coil? but should/might get it from the electric immersion element if that is covered in limescale.

yeah thats what I meant, the immersion element I reckon is making the kettling noise just before the stat cuts out at 60c - must whip it out one day and inspect.

Other concern is that I am wondering if the expansion pipe coming from the top of the cylinder is wide enough diameter - we have such weird pipes fitted to the house, not your normal copper 22mm you find in normal houses we have these fancy german ones where they are covered in some white plastic outer shell with stainless metal running inside that the plumber imported/used when the house was built , but another plumber said the pipes have a smaller diameter and thats why our hot tap trickles in the kitchen and downstairs bathroom rather than a good flow , because of these pipes with a smaller diameter (its 2 storey house with immersion tank/hot press upstairs on the landing) - but I am wondering if the expansion pipe coming out of top of cylinder has too small a diameter and maybe that could be kettling / steaming sound rather than the hot air expanding to the water tank up in the loft.

this is what they fitted originally all through our house when it was built for every internal water pipe (and for radiators) instead of normal copper pipe - this is a piece of cut off of the 15mm equivilient:

cnocbui

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

did it used to give out a noise like a boiling kettle with all that limescale? - also could the thermostat have been set too high in the first place, have heard sometimes if the stat is set to high in the cylinder it can produce too much limescale as well - too low and can produce the bugs that give you legionnaires disease.

mine it factory set to 60'c ... would have been new cylinder installed in 2008 or therabouts but even with that i can still hear it kettling sometimes just before the stat cuts out.

The immersion would give off a slight fizzing noise when on, but no noise from the CH coil.

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

and your hot water coming from??? - is it coming from copper tank heated with electric immersion heater or combi boiler or normal oil boiler?

HW coming from the cylinder in the photograph, which is heated by a CH coil and an immersion element.

Most of the limescale appears to have come from the immersion element, rather than from the CH coil - you can tell as the pieces are curved with the small radius of the immersion element.

Looks like it would build up on the immersion then shatter and fall off in chunks and then a new layer would form, shatter - and repeat.

The immersion was factory set and I didn't mess with it. Actually, I went through two copper immersion elements before researching and then getting a stainless steel jacketed one.

John.G

cnocbui wrote: »

The immersion would give off a slight fizzing noise when on, but no noise from the CH coil.



HW coming from the cylinder in the photograph, which is heated by a CH coil and an immersion element.

Most of the limescale appears to have come from the immersion element, rather than from the CH coil - you can tell as the pieces are curved with the small radius of the immersion element.

Looks like it would build up on the immersion then shatter and fall off in chunks and then a new layer would form, shatter - and repeat.

The immersion was factory set and I didn't mess with it. Actually, I went through two copper immersion elements before researching and then getting a stainless steel jacketed one.

Thanks, the limescale so was mainly being formed on the electric heating element(s) due to the huge temperature differences and not so much on the coil because it (coil) probably wasn't much higher than 65C at any stage, very interesting.

John.G

cnocbui wrote: »

The immersion would give off a slight fizzing noise when on, but no noise from the CH coil.



HW coming from the cylinder in the photograph, which is heated by a CH coil and an immersion element.

Most of the limescale appears to have come from the immersion element, rather than from the CH coil - you can tell as the pieces are curved with the small radius of the immersion element.

Looks like it would build up on the immersion then shatter and fall off in chunks and then a new layer would form, shatter - and repeat.

The immersion was factory set and I didn't mess with it. Actually, I went through two copper immersion elements before researching and then getting a stainless steel jacketed one.

Does the SS element give a very prolonged life then and is it still relatively clean due to the limescale shattering off it?, I see all new SS electric kettles now have a concealed element beneath the bottom presumably to enable the boiling of a "teaspoon" full of water, I wonder, in a hard water area, does this help with the limescale problem.
When I lived in the country many moons ago the potable water was drawn from a Co Council hand pump and was full of limescale, the electric kettles were copper with a normal exposed element inside, this had to be replaced almost every year or so due to the build up. I seem to remember a large marble or something like it, placed inside the kettle which was supposed to help to prevent the limescale build up but it wasn't very effective in our house at any rate.

cnocbui

John.G wrote: »

Does the SS element give a very prolonged life then and is it still relatively clean due to the limescale shattering off it?, I see all new SS electric kettles now have a concealed element beneath the bottom presumably to enable the boiling of a "teaspoon" full of water, I wonder, in a hard water area, does this help with the limescale problem.
When I lived in the country many moons ago the potable water was drawn from a Co Council hand pump and was full of limescale, the electric kettles were copper with a normal exposed element inside, this had to be replaced almost every year or so due to the build up. I seem to remember a large marble or something like it, placed inside the kettle which was supposed to help to prevent the limescale build up but it wasn't very effective in our house at any rate.

Yes, the SS heating element has far greater longevity. I went through two normal copper immersion elements before discovering the SS ones.

I have a Tefal kettle with the element cocealed beneath a gold plated pan. The gold is specifically to resist limesacale buildup and adhesion and it works a treat.

Andy From Sligo

John.G wrote: »

Does the SS element give a very prolonged life then and is it still relatively clean due to the limescale shattering off it?, I see all new SS electric kettles now have a concealed element beneath the bottom presumably to enable the boiling of a "teaspoon" full of water, I wonder, in a hard water area, does this help with the limescale problem.
When I lived in the country many moons ago the potable water was drawn from a Co Council hand pump and was full of limescale, the electric kettles were copper with a normal exposed element inside, this had to be replaced almost every year or so due to the build up. I seem to remember a large marble or something like it, placed inside the kettle which was supposed to help to prevent the limescale build up but it wasn't very effective in our house at any rate.

we used to have a round metal mesh yoke placed inside the kettle - i think the idea that the limescale attached itself to that rather than the element, then you just take it out once in a while and rinse it under the tap and pop it back in the kettle

John.G

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

we used to have a round metal mesh yoke placed inside the kettle - i think the idea that the limescale attached itself to that rather than the element, then you just take it out once in a while and rinse it under the tap and pop it back in the kettle

But that limited the number of eggs you could boil in the kettle to have with the cup of tea for breakfast.

Andy From Sligo

cnocbui wrote: »

Yes, the SS heating element has far greater longevity. I went through two normal copper immersion elements before discovering the SS ones.

I have a Tefal kettle with the element cocealed beneath a gold plated pan. The gold is specifically to resist limesacale buildup and adhesion and it works a treat.

wonder what fails on the brass immersion elements in the hot press cylinder - i reckon it must just get so lime-scaled up and just overheats instead of dissipating the heat and burns out the element inside doesnt it?

cnocbui

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

wonder what fails on the brass immersion elements in the hot press cylinder - i reckon it must just get so lime-scaled up and just overheats instead of dissipating the heat and burns out the element inside doesnt it?

The casing corrodes through allowing water to come in contact with the live element, casuing your RCD to blow.

Andy From Sligo

John.G wrote: »

But that limited the number of eggs you could boil in the kettle to have with the cup of tea for breakfast.

not if your clever and know how to work it

Andy From Sligo

cnocbui wrote: »

The casing corrodes through allowing water to come in contact with the live element, casuing your RCD to blow.

ah yes - of course. My daughters one just the other week kept tripping the breaker - her landlord put a new on in (element that is , not breaker )