Brexit companies to ireland?

mammajamma

I can see many of the pitfalls of Brexit for us here, but one positive that is constantly mentioned is the potential movement of businesses from London to Dublin. Had 800 move recently from Bank of America (I think).

It sounds pretty good in principle.

But considering the housing situation, and cost situation, is it really a good thing to have multiple large businesses and even more thousands of people squeezing into Dublin? Just more people getting priced out of existence by the staff of multinational corporations looking to take advantage?

It just comes across as pure greed, "more people and business is better!". But it patently isn't better considering costs. At what point should a country realise we're full up, and more, demonstrably, isn't better? As Haughey infamously said, "living within our means", but actually applicable this time.

Following that, there should be a massive campaign to decentralise across the country. But you cant simultaneously put out a fire with one hand, while pouring petrol with the other.

Wheres the long term planning?

Is this some kind of a joke where the political parties know that its going to explode any time now, and are simply playing a stalling game to delay the inevitable? Profit, somehow, in the meantime, getting ready to leggit? This cant be serious.

Do you think more people and business moving into Dublin is a good result from Brexit? If so, how do you reconcile the pro's versus con's?

SEPT 23 1989

It would be a great thing if we weren't being rode and they paid their fair share

They don't call us the Wild West for nothing

mammajamma

Deleted User wrote: »

But what if they're non-Irish?

Youre joking, but that "shield" will be earnestly used to swat away rightful criticism.

However this thread is pure numbers, nothing else. Do you think more businesses, with their staff, moving into Dublin is a genuine benefit to Dublin considering current issues?

Who would benefit more, the Business, or Dublin?

mikemac2

mammajamma wrote: »

Had 800 move recently from Bank of America (I think).

It sounds pretty good in principle.

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

It would be a great thing if we weren't being rode and they paid their fair share

They don't call us the Wild West for nothing

Even if they paid nothing do you want to see 800 PAYE jobs turned down?

Maybe someone can question why there are bungalows 100 metres from the IFSC like Commons St and generations of unemployment despite the NCI college on the doorstep with access programs. I'm a member of the Sheriff St local history facebook group. Some seem to believe high paying factory jobs and also docker jobs are coming back. They ain't

Fann Linn

[Deleted User] wrote: »

But what if they're non-Irish?

As opposed to the non-Irish that aren't working I suggest take the others.

mammajamma

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

It would be a great thing if we weren't being rode and they paid their fair share

They don't call us the Wild West for nothing

That's what Im inclined to believe too, that this is probably a very lop-sided deal.

The multinational, yet again, will move here to take advantage of our position within the EU and our very low taxes.

On the otherside, it will push up costs dramatically in terms of rent and housing, and more than likely general living costs too.

I can see this being another bum deal that benefit very few, at the expense of the very many.

mammajamma

mikemac2 wrote: »

Even if they paid nothing do you want to see 800 PAYE jobs turned down?

Maybe someone can question why there are bungalows 100 metres from the IFSC like Commons St and generations of unemployment despite the NCI college on the doorstep with access programs. I'm a member of the Sheriff St local history facebook history group. Some seem to believe high paying factory jobs and also docker jobs are coming back. They ain't

I think that is very much spiral-down thinking.

I cant run an entire cost analysis/benefit, but I would be blown away if the little bit of PAYE outweighed the concomitant rises in rent/housing/healthcare/childcare/education that would come with it. Id bet it would be multiples of deficit/benefit.

I can see the inefficiency of some housing, but there has to be a line drawn where we aren't compromising quality of life by moving into smaller and smaller boxes to accommodate supposed "beneficial" multinationals moving here.

It isn't going well as it is, doing more of the same (on acid) probably isn't the best idea!

Cantona's Collars

Some looked at Ireland but decided to head to the Continent as the lack of housing and it's cost put them off.
If only the IDA and the government had sold other parts of Ireland as destinations for companies to locate to other than Dublin.

mammajamma

mammajamma wrote: »

That's what Im inclined to believe too, that this is probably a very lop-sided deal.

The multinational, yet again, will move here to take advantage of our position within the EU and our very low taxes.

On the otherside, it will push up costs dramatically in terms of rent and housing, and more than likely general living costs too.

I can see this being another bum deal that benefit very few, at the expense of the very many.

You've answered your own question. And you're probably correct, a limited trickle-down scenario with higher costs for all - socially and economically.

mammajamma

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Some looked at Ireland but decided to head to the Continent as the lack of housing and it's cost put them off.
If only the IDA and the government had sold other parts of Ireland as destinations for companies to locate to other than Dublin.

I think, overall, we really need to start de-coupling ourselves from these multinationals. They wont be here forever, they have (IMO) an overall detrimental effect, and they'll leave chaos in their wake.

Living within our means, whether that means starting home-grown, sustainable business, or shifting focus into new areas is going to be the end game anyway, for all countries. Complete pipe-dream that our politicians would be proactive in this, but its still worth pointing out the obvious all the same.

Kermit.de.frog

Poor infrastructure, climate and unattractive tax rates for high earners means Ireland at best will get scraps and low - middle jobs.

I would say the tax rates are the biggest single issue for high value employees relocating here.

mammajamma

Deleted User wrote: »

You've answered your own question. And you're probably correct, a limited trickle-down scenario with higher costs for all - socially and economically.

Definitely, that is my suspicion. Just curious as to how others feel about it. Maybe there are elements I haven't considered?

Are most people (as usual in Ireland) of the same thought, but a very few of us are going to force the country (easily) into yet another terrible decision?

mikemac2

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

If only the IDA and the government had sold other parts of Ireland as destinations for companies to locate to other than Dublin.

They try

From their 2017 report which I know, I know seems old but published this year

IDA Ireland is acutely aware of the importance of jobs for regional sustainability and development but it remains a challenge to convince international investors to consider locations outside of Dublin and the larger urban areas.

There are extra incentives to locate in regions but companies seem reluctant to do it

I read the Waterford forum and the South East region always feel hard done by and maybe they are but companies seem to want Dublin and nothing else despite extra offers from the IDA

Atlantic Dawn

Brexit will never happen, next week it will be defeated, Article 50 will be repealed, the UK will flourish on the back of staying in.

mammajamma

mammajamma wrote: »

Definitely, that is my suspicion. Just curious as to how others feel about it. Maybe there are elements I haven't considered?

Are most people (as usual in Ireland) of the same thought, but a very few of us are going to force the country (easily) into yet another terrible decision?

The bailout was instructive...

mammajamma

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Brexit will never happen, next week it will be defeated, Article 50 will be repealed, the UK will flourish on the back of staying in.

I believe it will be delayed, maybe even a couple of times. But with some of the global issues due any day now, I can see Brexit as a definite.

There appears to be chaos on the horizon, and the first thing people seek in chaos is gigantic change. Rejoining the EU is the least "change" possible. Brexit could very well end up 10 times harsher than it appears now!

These are not the days to be betting on stability going forward.

Atlantic Dawn

mammajamma wrote: »

I believe it will be delayed, maybe even a couple of times. But with some of the global issues due any day now, I can see Brexit as a definite.

There appears to be chaos on the horizon, and the first thing people seek in chaos is gigantic change. Rejoining the EU is the least "change" possible. Brexit could very well end up 10 times harsher than it appears now!

These are not the days to be betting on stability going forward.

There's too much of a 'higher power' so to speak on the EU and UK side wanting to stay in, no way it will ever happen. In addition if they left they would need to rejoin in the Euro when they rejoined, that will never happen.

mammajamma

Deleted User wrote: »

The bailout was instructive...

Oh you bet! A taste for the next round. Fool me once, and all that.

mammajamma

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

There's too much of a 'higher power' so to speak on the EU and UK side wanting to stay in, no way it will ever happen. In addition if they left they would need to rejoin in the Euro, will never happen.

Sometimes it helps to think in terms of fundamentals.

So, if someone were to ask me "do you think the EU, in 5 to 10 years time, will look..."

1) the same/little difference?
2) Very different?
3) unrecognisable/non-existent?

I'd have to be crazy to go with 1).

On that basis, we'll disagree. The good news is that we'll both find out!

Billy86

The real question here is, is the lack of development outside Dublin more to do with the greed of Dublin/politicians centralising everything there and saying 'to hell with rent costs!' or does it come from the other potential areas of the country having a case of NIMBYism and 'to hell with those jobs!' due to the infrastructural work that might be needed to facilitate them?

Rhys Essien

Billy86 wrote: »

The real question here is, is the lack of development outside Dublin more to do with the greed of Dublin/politicians centralising everything there and saying 'to hell with rent costs!' or does it come from the other potential areas of the country having a case of NIMBYism and 'to hell with those jobs!' due to the infrastructural work that might be needed to facilitate them?

That’s makes no sense. You saw that how hard the people of Athenry fought to try and get the Apple data centre even though it was only going to bring a few dozen jobs.

mammajamma

Billy86 wrote: »

The real question here is, is the lack of development outside Dublin more to do with the greed of Dublin/politicians centralising everything there and saying 'to hell with rent costs!' or does it come from the other potential areas of the country having a case of NIMBYism and 'to hell with those jobs!' due to the infrastructural work that might be needed to facilitate them?

Centralisation/decentralisation is a major issue.

However, as I stated earlier, you cant stop both the problem of overcrowding AND decentralisation at the same time.

When our governments made weak-sauce efforts to address either of those issues, in isolation, it was a total failure.

The idea that they will tackle both at once is stuff for the fairies.

Its high-time for new ideas, and usually that means new faces.

Back to the thread, I don't think more businesses arriving into Dublin from London is a good thing.

Separate note: Would we really want Dublin replicated in all parts of Ireland? As in, its current state? I think that would be an unmitigated disaster.

mikemac2

Billy86 wrote: »

The real question here is, is the lack of development outside Dublin more to do with the greed of Dublin/politicians centralising everything there and saying 'to hell with rent costs!' or does it come from the other potential areas of the country having a case of NIMBYism and 'to hell with those jobs!' due to the infrastructural work that might be needed to facilitate them?

15 members of the cabinet and 7 are Dubs and 8 are from elsewhere. And all sure know how to fight for their area, Micheal Ring pulling tourism money for Westport and surrounding areas as an example

Alan Kelly of Tipp probably one of the most hated politicans in the country still brought or claimed to have brought 300 great financial jobs to Nenagh and it saved his seat for him

I don't think it's a Dublin vs the rest issue. Every member of the Dail wants jobs in their area so they can cut the ribbon and take credit