Copyright on Music for a Play

05eaftqbrs9jlh

I've heavily edited and dispersed a few bars of a copyrighted song in a track which will be used in a play. It's unrecognisable as I've stretched out completely. Is this allowed under Fair Usage? Or Creative Commons? I'm not sure how this stuff works or if I'll be able to use it. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

fritzelly

There is no Fair Usage or Creative Commons when it comes to copyrighted music.
You cannot use it without permission/paying for it.

Now if this is for a school play it's highly unlikely the likes of Sony will come chasing you but if this is a commercial play then you are treading dangerous waters.

Vanilla Ice "sampled" a Queen song - settled out of court, many cases like it.

dense

Alessandra Delicious Fiddle wrote: »

I've heavily edited and dispersed a few bars of a copyrighted song in a track which will be used in a play. It's unrecognisable as I've stretched out completely. Is this allowed under Fair Usage? Or Creative Commons? I'm not sure how this stuff works or if I'll be able to use it. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I wouldn't be too worried but you never know who's in the audience.

http://www.ppimusic.ie/using-music/do-i-need-a-ppi-licence
Tariff CalculatorIf you use copyright record music in public you will need a PPI Licence, including radio, TV, PC, ipod or any other means. “Public” means anywhere outside the family circle.


Would it not be simpler to go on YouTube and have a scout for some royalty free music or noise of a similar style to what you want?


https://m.youtube.com/results?search_query=royalty+free+music

05eaftqbrs9jlh

dense wrote: »

I wouldn't be too worried but you never know who's in the audience.

http://www.ppimusic.ie/using-music/do-i-need-a-ppi-licence
Tariff CalculatorIf you use copyright record music in public you will need a PPI Licence, including radio, TV, PC, ipod or any other means. “Public” means anywhere outside the family circle.


Would it not be simpler to go on YouTube and have a scout for some royalty free music or noise of a similar style to what you want?


https://m.youtube.com/results?search_query=royalty+free+music

It's to create atmosphere and build tension at the end of the play and I need it to sound massive at the end so I just cut a bit from a song, Paulstretched it and did new strings of my own over it. It's probably no more than two lines of the song in total. Do the short length and editing to the point of unrecognisability not do anything for me legally?

It's a play in aid of a charitable cause, but it's likely be sold and have different runs internationally, which is why I'm trying to ascertain if this is allowed.

dense

Alessandra Delicious Fiddle wrote: »

It's to create atmosphere and build tension at the end of the play and I need it to sound massive at the end so I just cut a bit from a song, Paulstretched it and did new strings of my own over it. It's probably no more than two lines of the song in total. Do the short length and editing to the point of unrecognisability not do anything for me legally?

It's a play in aid of a charitable cause, but it's likely be sold and have different runs internationally, which is why I'm trying to ascertain if this is allowed.

You didn't get permission to do what you've done with it so, ...... I wouldn't do it. Particularly if it's not just down in the local parish hall.


If you're handy with the editing and the keys why not go the whole hog and drop the original piece altogether?



I wouldn't be mad on someone cutting a piece of my song to use in a production and not crediting me with the basis, you probably wouldn't either.

DesperateDan

On Boards everyone is going to tell you you're breaking copyright law so don't do it OP. The fact is that even if the head of Sony records himself was in the audience there is a tiny possibility you would annoy him enough to get a letter asking you not to use the music again.

Nobody is going to court because no revenue has been lost.

dense

DesperateDan wrote: »

On Boards everyone is going to tell you you're breaking copyright law so don't do it OP. The fact is that even if the head of Sony records himself was in the audience there is a tiny possibility you would annoy him enough to get a letter asking you not to use the music again.

Nobody is going to court because no revenue has been lost.

It's not about court it's about originality and just being able to say the last bit of music is as original as hopefully the rest if the production.



"Great play, tell me about the music at the end of it, is it your own composition too?



Well, eh, not really.



OK."





Better to do it right, and they're nearly there already by the sound of it.

Peregrinus

DesperateDan wrote: »

On Boards everyone is going to tell you you're breaking copyright law so don't do it OP. The fact is that even if the head of Sony records himself was in the audience there is a tiny possibility you would annoy him enough to get a letter asking you not to use the music again.

Nobody is going to court because no revenue has been lost.

What's at stake here is not, strictly speaking, copyright, the right to make copies. It's performance rights, the right to perform the piece in public.

Revenue is being lost - the performance royalties that the composer of the piece is entilted to when his composition is included in a public performance.

The amount at stake for a single instance may be small but, collectively, performance rights are huge. In the music business, they generate far, far more revenue than copyrights. And the industry has a vested interest in not allowing the development of a culture in which small infringements of performance rights are ignored. So they don't ignore them.

So, yeah. You can approach the Irish Music Rights Organisation (wich acts for the rights-holders of most recorded music) and talk to them about getting a licence for the use of the song in your production. Or you can just go ahead without a licence and wait for the IMRO to pursue you (and others involved in the production); there is a non-zero chance that they will since this is, basically, what they were set up for. Or you can source royalty-free music, or use a composition of your own.

fritzelly

Look at audionetwork.com, massive catalogue. Have used them in the past

ohnonotgmail

Alessandra Delicious Fiddle wrote: »

It's to create atmosphere and build tension at the end of the play and I need it to sound massive at the end so I just cut a bit from a song, Paulstretched it and did new strings of my own over it. It's probably no more than two lines of the song in total. Do the short length and editing to the point of unrecognisability not do anything for me legally?

It's a play in aid of a charitable cause, but it's likely be sold and have different runs internationally, which is why I'm trying to ascertain if this is allowed.

It does absolutely nothing to protect you. The fact that revenue will likely be generated means they have something to sue you for. Use a different piece of music or pay IMRO.

ganmo

https://www.imro.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/VT-Tariff-0118-1218.pdf

Neon Demon

dense wrote: »

It's not about court it's about originality and just being able to say the last bit of music is as original as hopefully the rest if the production.



"Great play, tell me about the music at the end of it, is it your own composition too?



Well, eh, not really.



OK."





Better to do it right, and they're nearly there already by the sound of it.

Have you ever heard of sampling, or indeed music generally, since the mid-80s?

DesperateDan

Peregrinus wrote: »

wait for the IMRO to pursue you (and others involved in the production); there is a non-zero chance that they will since this is, basically, what they were set up for.

This is exactly what I was talking about OP. IMRO will not pursue you, it wouldn't even be worth it to pick up the phone and ask you not to stop :pac: Sure it's not the right thing to do but it's not like you are making use of the thing to sell tickets. Imagine if it went to court, how much could be asked for from you in all seriousness.

I miss the days of pirate radio you know. People had a bit more common sense back in those days, now the red tape is a little overbearing.

ohnonotgmail

Neon Demon wrote: »

Have you ever heard of sampling, or indeed music generally, since the mid-80s?

and they all pay royalties.

Losty Dublin

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

and they all pay royalties.

Usually after they are caught by the owners of the initial piece for borrowing from their work, which means only when it's financially worth their while to do so. OP should have obtained permission from the owners of the piece to use or adapt their work but in practical purposes they won't have a lot to worry about unless their musical makes it and grows beyond their small Am-Dram audience.

fritzelly

Already said it could be used internationally and sold (I presume DVD?)

As a charitable cause and not some local thing you may even get permission to use it without payment

dense

Neon Demon wrote: »

Have you ever heard of sampling, or indeed music generally, since the mid-80s?

Yes, I'm very familiar with it.
You need permission to sample someone else's composition.


If I sample a line from a song why do I have to get it cleared?

When you sample another person's work without permission, you are automatically infringing
two copyrights; the copyright in the sound recording and the copyright in the composition.

The copyright in the sound recording is owned by the record company and is defined as the
copyright inherent in the actual sound recording (i.e. master tape) itself.

The copyright in the
composition is owned by the writers and the publishers of the song and is defined as that body of exclusive rights granted by statute to authors for protection of their writings.


To infringe a copyright is illegal so therefore you must clear your sample before you release or broadcast the work containing the sample.

How do I clear a sample?

The Mechanical Copyright Protection Society (Ireland) (MCPSI) will facilitate sample clearance.

https://www.google.ie/url?q=http://www.songwritingessentials.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/MusicSamplingTheLaw.pdf&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwiMlsbAlIffAhXJVBUIHQ5mB1AQFjAJegQIBhAB&usg=AOvVaw0UA6wHfhJld3qfrhGb-VTA

If you want to use a sample that “clips” from a pre-existing recording, you generally need licenses from both the owner of the recording (usually a record label) and the owner of the underlying song (usually a publisher). If you want to create a sample by making a new original recording that sounds like another song, you need a license from the owner of the song/publisher. These rights holders can be identified using various online resources, including www.ascap.com, www.bmi.com, www.sesac.com, www.harryfox.com, www.mpa.org, and www.copyright.gov.


https://help.reverbnation.com/hc/en-us/articles/204304544-What-licenses-s-do-you-need-to-use-a-sample-

dense

fritzelly wrote: »

Already said it could be used internationally and sold (I presume DVD?)

As a charitable cause and not some local thing you may even get permission to use it without payment

But might request an acknowledgement.

seamus

If you can find a band to play the section for you to record, or find a recorded performance which is not copyrighted, then no royalties are payable.

This is a relatively complicated area. Simply contacting the copyright holder to ask permission to use the sample is actually the most straightforward. Since you're not hoping to profit from it, no fee is usually payable.

fritzelly

seamus wrote: »

If you can find a band to play the section for you to record

How exactly does that work? It's OK I recorded a band playing your copyrighted material

seamus wrote: »

or find a recorded performance which is not copyrighted, then no royalties are payable.

If the performance isn't copyrighted then it would suggest the original isn't copyrighted

DesperateDan

Alessandra Delicious Fiddle wrote: »

It's a play in aid of a charitable cause, but it's likely be sold and have different runs internationally, which is why I'm trying to ascertain if this is allowed.

My eyeballs skipped that line. No OP you can't sell it internationally if you have sampled someone else's work without permission that changes the ball game

Losty Dublin

seamus wrote: »

If you can find a band to play the section for you to record, or find a recorded performance which is not copyrighted, then no royalties are payable.
.

Not so. Composer rights are still liable as well as performers rights. Invariably the composer rights are more costly than those due to the performer.

dense

seamus wrote: »

If you can find a band to play the section for you to record, or find a recorded performance which is not copyrighted, then no royalties are payable.

Recording a cover version of a copyrighted piece still requires seeking the owner's permission if it's to be used in public.

A recorded performance of a copyrighted piece is not the OP's to use either.

This is not complicated.

Best is to look for royalty free music or get rid of the sample because by the sounds of things it's either unrecognisable after being edited so much which means the value of it's contribution is questionable in the first place and does not remotely sound like the original (why bother sampling something and editing it to be unrecognisable????) or, it sounds so like the original that someone is going to catch it.

It's not adding up, they don't want to ditch the sample and don't want to come up with an alernative original piece either, because the music with the sample of someone elses music in it sounds so good!

Peregrinus

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Usually after they are caught by the owners of the initial piece for borrowing from their work, which means only when it's financially worth their while to do so.

No. Once you get a commercial recording contract, the record company will insist that the rights issues arising from your sampling are all neatly ticked off. They won't issue the recording and then waith to be sued by the rigths holders.

Losty Dublin wrote: »

OP should have obtained permission from the owners of the piece to use or adapt their work but in practical purposes they won't have a lot to worry about unless their musical makes it and grows beyond their small Am-Dram audience.

Depends. IMRO do proactively police places where music is played. So if your play is put on in a hall or theatre that doesn't have a general performance licence from IMRO (and IMRO knows, of course, which places of entertainment have a licence from them and which do not) then a call or letter is quite likely to follow. IMRO can be quite fine-grained about this; I knew of a case where they approached a dentist who was playing piped music into the patients waiting-room without a licence.

But this brings up a point which hasn't attracted much attention in the thread up to know. The issue here is really one for the operators of the venue where the piece is performed. They're the ones who are responsible if there is an unlicensed public performance of someone else's music. And IMRO does issue general licences which cover all the music whose rightsholders IMRO represents, and many (most?) halls and theatres have such a licence. So, depending on where the production is mounted, there may not be a problem here. There's an entirely separate problem if the OP, or a musician, wants to release a recording which includes a sample of another artist's work; that will require further licensing.

dense

Peregrinus wrote: »

No. Once you get a commercial recording contract, the record company will insist that the rights issues arising from your sampling are all neatly ticked off. They won't issue the recording and then waith to be sued by the rigths holders.


Depends. IMRO do proactively police places where music is played. So if your play is put on in a hall or theatre that doesn't have a general performance licence from IMRO (and IMRO knows, of course, which places of entertainment have a licence from them and which do not) then a call or letter is quite likely to follow. IMRO can be quite fine-grained about this; I knew of a case where they approached a dentist who was playing piped music into the patients waiting-room without a licence.

But this brings up a point which hasn't attracted much attention in the thread up to know. The issue here is really one for the operators of the venue where the piece is performed. They're the ones who are responsible if there is an unlicensed public performance of someone else's music. And IMRO does issue general licences which cover all the music whose rightsholders IMRO represents, and many (most?) halls and theatres have such a licence. So, depending on where the production is mounted, there may not be a problem here. There's an entirely separate problem if the OP, or a musician, wants to release a recording which includes a sample of another artist's work; that will require further licensing.

Well said, although if a musical society is doing a production of a previously published piece (Grease for example) they'll still have to have the copyright holder's permission to do their version of it.


Separately from IMRO licensing the venue.

05eaftqbrs9jlh

I decided to scrap that track and use a different one instead.

I'm curious though, how can famous DJs put out albums where they mix using copyrighted samples, live or otherwise, if edited versions of songs are completely out of bounds?

Caranica

Alessandra Delicious Fiddle wrote: »

I decided to scrap that track and use a different one instead.

I'm curious though, how can famous DJs put out albums where they mix using copyrighted samples, live or otherwise, if edited versions of songs are completely out of bounds?

They get permission and pay for the privilege

Pretzill

Alessandra Delicious Fiddle wrote: »

I decided to scrap that track and use a different one instead.

I'm curious though, how can famous DJs put out albums where they mix using copyrighted samples, live or otherwise, if edited versions of songs are completely out of bounds?

They pay and it costs. You have to pay for the right to use music even royalty free music comes at a cost and in most case licences only cover synchronisation rights. Even using quotes from well known song lyrics in a book would incur a hefty fee.

by8auj6csd3ioq

https://soundimage.org/

Free music for many different types of production. he asks you give him a credit

dense

Alessandra Delicious Fiddle wrote: »

I decided to scrap that track and use a different one instead.

I'm curious though, how can famous DJs put out albums where they mix using copyrighted samples, live or otherwise, if edited versions of songs are completely out of bounds?

They're not completely out of bounds, but there is a requirement to not assume ownership and rights of someone else's work, by paying and crediting them for using their work.

You don't seem to be getting that if you write some original music it's not OK for everyone else to plagiarise it if and when they feel like it.

You seem to have very little regard or respect for creative musicians, writers or composers for someone who is supposedly working in "the arts".

Do you think it would be OK to copy and paste a Seamus Heaney poem and put your name down as the author, or simply withhold his name from publication, by broadcast or whatever other means of dissemination you may be considering??

ShauntaMetzel

If it is about a specific artist, then you will definitely need permission from the music composer etc. Most of royalty free music is used for non-commercial purpose including CreativeCommons, but if you want to use the music for commercial purpose, then you will need a pro license or CreativeCommon license like this. However, I would suggest you getting pre-cleared music from Hicham Chahidi via his royalty free music site https://www.musicscreen.org/ for both commercial and non-commercial purpose.

Similarly, you can also visit SoundCloud and ask the artist if they allow you to use their music with their permission. Otherwise, if you use any music content without authorization and fulfilling other terms and conditions, it would be illegal.

SixtaWalthers

If it is about the use of music for a play then why don’t you get the services of a local music composer? Don’t have enough budget? Then, it is better to hire any music composer from Sound Cloud or YouTube singer.