Where is safe to buy?

GalwayGunner

Hi guys,

I'm looking to buy/adopt at least 2 dogs in the next 6 months and I'm looking for advice of where online I can go to look for them that isn't a puppy farm or somewhere dodgy?

Friends of mine have a Goldendoodle and it is gorgeous, but I know it's a "designer" breed so save your comments. I'm hoping to get a new puppy, plus find a suitable rescue dog for our young family from <snip>

I'm just worried about dealing with Puppy Farms or dodgy dealers.

Is there anywhere that you could recommend that I start my search? Any breeders you'd recommend, or even more importantly anywhere to avoid at all costs (e.g. DoneDeal etc)?

Thanks

cocker5

GalwayGunner wrote: »

Hi guys,

I'm looking to buy/adopt at least 2 dogs in the next 6 months and I'm looking for advice of where online I can go to look for them that isn't a puppy farm or somewhere dodgy?

Friends of mine have a Goldendoodle and it is gorgeous, but I know it's a "designer" breed so save your comments. I'm hoping to get a new puppy, plus find a suitable rescue dog for our young family from <snip>

I'm just worried about dealing with Puppy Farms or dodgy dealers.

Is there anywhere that you could recommend that I start my search? Any breeders you'd recommend, or even more importantly anywhere to avoid at all costs (e.g. DoneDeal etc)?

Thanks

Do you mind if I ask what age are your kids OP?

so you are looking to buy a puppy and rescue an older dog in the next 6 months... sorry not sure I'm reading that correctly?

Cherry Blossom

What breed of dog are you looking to buy? Your only hope of a reputable source for a poodle Cross is to find one in rescue. By the way we can't recommend or even name rescues here but some people may be able to send you suggestions by pm.

If you are buying from a reputable source you may have to wait a lot longer than 6 months for one to become available. Two dogs at once is also a very bad idea. I would suggest one or the other and give the dog at least a year to settle in and get the house rules established before adding another.

GalwayGunner

cocker5 wrote: »

Do you mind if I ask what age are your kids OP?

so you are looking to buy a puppy and rescue an older dog in the next 6 months... sorry not sure I'm reading that correctly?

Yes that's correct. No set timeline: the advice below is to wait at least a year to get a second dog which seems sensible.

Also: child is 1yo

GalwayGunner

Cherry Blossom wrote: »

What breed of dog are you looking to buy? Your only hope of a reputable source for a poodle Cross is to find one in rescue. By the way we can't recommend or even name rescues here but some people may be able to send you suggestions by pm.

If you are buying from a reputable source you may have to wait a lot longer than 6 months for one to become available. Two dogs at once is also a very bad idea. I would suggest one or the other and give the dog at least a year to settle in and get the house rules established before adding another.

Rescue dog will be depending on what's available and a good fit - no real breed preference.

Puppy would be either Golden Retriever or some Poodle cross breed.

Your advice around waiting between dogs is sensible: would you got with a rescue first, or puppy?

Any poodle/doodle breeders that you could PM me?

Thanks

cocker5

Sorry OP I’m going to be very honest and say at 1 years of age and getting a puppy your asking for trouble .. personally I wouldn’t recommend it. That’s just being honest

Cherry Blossom

As I said the only reputable source of poodle cross in Ireland is the rescues. There is a poster here who has golden retrievers, maybe she will come along and advise you of the breed club etc. An older rescue might possibly need less training than a puppy in which case it might be easier to go for an older pup / young adult first but it will depend on the individual dog.

em_cat

I’m going to say it, no such thing as a reputable doodle breeder, so no, I will not save my comments. Encouraging the unscrupulous, horrific, cruel and pure greed that the designer breed trade is important to comment on.

Also, out of curiosity will you be using an electric fence to contain your pets?

Apologies mods, I just couldn’t figure out how to say it any other way.

Choc Chip

Hey op! Any reason in particular that you're looking at a poodle cross rather than a poodle? I only realised recently (mortified) that poodles dont have naturally naked faces (they are shaved) so if its that adorable teddy look you're after, its totally doable by grooming a poodle that way. You're also far more likely to get the type of coat you want with a pure bred poodle.

DBB

I'm interested in the idea that there can't be a reputable doodle breeder.
What if the breeder is producing health-tested, well put-together Australian Labradoodles? Pretty much a breed in its own right now as a result of 50+ish years of targeted breeding.
How are Australian Labradoodles any different to any other breed that has been created in the past 100+ years by mixing various breeds together, if produced really well?
What if a breeder is producing 1st generation goldendoodles, maltipoos, cavachons etc etc... And both parents, maybe also grandparents, have been thoroughly health tested and well put together?
What if all of the above breeders carefully select the parents based on health and temperament? And then immerse themselves in a rigorous and robust socialisation and habituation process for their pups? With the aim of producing really nice, friendly, healthy pet dogs?
The above are ticking all of the boxes we all exhaust ourselves advising prospective owners... Aren't they?
What's left out of the things we often advise? They're not kennel club registered. They're (probably) not the progeny of show dogs.
But how much does this really matter? Does it necessarily follow that show dogs will be best the parents of the best pet dogs? Do the breed standards emphasise family-friendly, safe temperaments?
I'm not so sure we can answer "yes" to either of these questions, for many of the breeds that have become popular family pets. I'm not at all sure that the show process can possibly assess temperament to the degree that the dog can confidently be declared bombproof enough to make a good family pet.
So, is being the offspring of a successful (or otherwise) show dog a realistic or reliable widespread barometer of whether the pups will make good family pets? Because it's the owners of these dogs we advise parents to go to when looking for a pet dog! But actually, there is no reliable basis that this is the best route to take.
We can rail against doodles and oodles, and we often do... but they ain't going to go away any time soon. Neither are puppy farms that churn out pedigree pups. To my mind, if a breeder ticks those boxes I referred to above re health-testing, conformation, and safe, kindly temperament, and does so in a high-welfare way, then it matters not one iota to me (or many families) whether the parents of their pup are the same breed as each other. All that matters to most families who want a pet dog, is to have a nice, safe, friendly pet dog.
I'm aware this will ruffle feathers... But I'm increasingly finding it hard to find an argument against well-produced crossbreeds as family pets... And believe it or not, there ARE people in Ireland doing exactly what I've referred to in my opening paragraphs!

Choc Chip

DBB wrote: »

I'm interested in the idea that there can't be a reputable doodle breeder.
...
What if a breeder is producing 1st generation goldendoodles, maltipoos, cavachons etc etc... And both parents, maybe also grandparents, have been thoroughly health tested and well put together?
...

What if all of the above breeders carefully select the parents based on health and temperament? And then immerse themselves in a rigorous and robust socialisation and habituation process for their pups? With the aim of producing really nice, friendly, healthy pet dogs?

... there ARE people in Ireland doing exactly what I've referred to in my opening paragraphs!

Hey DBB, I'm up late catching up on emails so this will be short, but I'm interested in what you're saying - I know I've edited the above so feel free to criticise if I'm selectively quoting you.



I know someone who is obsessed with the idea of a cockapoo but I can't find a breeder that I'd consider responsible in the UK, never mind Ireland. I can't find a doodle breeder that carries out the health tests for both breeds, and definitely not one that's willing to take responsibility for pups produced. I'm less certain about breeding for temperament or function as I've not found a breeder that I've spoken to directly, as they don't fulfil the first set of criteria.


I've been looking into poodles more, and I just think that they'd fulfil the criteria that a lot of people are looking for, if people were more aware of how versatile they are...


I'm know that you're more immersed in dogs and there could be a lot of people out there that are doing this very thing but are not easily searchable on the internet.

Hellrazer

em_cat wrote: »

I’m going to say it, no such thing as a reputable doodle breeder, so no, I will not save my comments. Encouraging the unscrupulous, horrific, cruel and pure greed that the designer breed trade is important to comment on.

Ah stop will you.
The OP asked specifically for no designer breed comments yet you had to comment.
This really does my head in when people keep going on about so called "designer breeds"
Where do you think all our other pedigrees came from?
Yep--they were all designer breeds at some stage in their development.
FWIW there is a push to get goldendoodles and labradoodles breed recognised in the AKC. There is also a push in Australia for recognition.And if either of these Kennel clubs give recognition then the UK kennel club wont be far behind.

Apologies mods, I just couldn’t figure out how to say it any other way.

You didn't have to say it at all.

DBB

I need to clarify... There are some Australian Labradoodle breeders in Ireland who tick as many boxes as any "reputable" purebred breeder.
I'm not so sure this is the case, yet, for the first generation oodles, doodles, - chons and -poos... But there's no reason why it can't happen.

Choc Chip

DBB wrote: »

I need to clarify... There are some Australian Labradoodle breeders in Ireland who tick as many boxes as any "reputable" purebred breeder.
I'm not so sure this is the case, yet, for the first generation oodles, doodles, - chons and -poos... But there's no reason why it can't happen.

I'm not arguing that it can't happen. I think it would be a better idea than making working breeds like malinois into pet dogs.


However I don't think that, practically, it is happening. At least, I've not seen it and I'm not sure it will happen while Ireland has BYB and puppy farmed alternatives that are so much cheaper for someone who is looking for a pet.



I think that a well-bred poodle would satisfy the needs of a lot of people. The people I speak to who want a designer cross tend to be looking for something that's not a poodle because "eww... poodle!" while they've never really looked at the breed.

Knine

Hellrazer wrote: »

Ah stop will you.
The OP asked specifically for no designer breed comments yet you had to comment.
This really does my head in when people keep going on about so called "designer breeds"
Where do you think all our other pedigrees came from?
Yep--they were all designer breeds at some stage in their development.
FWIW there is a push to get goldendoodles and labradoodles breed recognised in the AKC. There is also a push in Australia for recognition.And if either of these Kennel clubs give recognition then the UK kennel club wont be far behind.




You didn't have to say it at all.

As someone involved with the IKC they won't be getting recognised here, nor any time soon in the UK. We are separate from the UK & follow FCI Breed Standards. I'm not a designer breed fan but I do love crossbreeds, heinz 57 types. I put a huge amount of time into my dogs, showing, researching pedigrees, dna testing, travelling, paying large registration fees, stud fees, prefix fees, Club Memberships (3) seminars, Judging licences etc. None of which applies to these designer crosses. My issue is that they are bred to make money. I am lucky to break even after everything is paid for. The Breeds I have also have a purpose & still excel at that. As I am very selective about the dogs I only occasionally breed, they are bombproof & very much dual purpose.

People looking for these crossbreeds can actually find the same attributes in the pedigree breeds of which there are many. One of my dogs is often called a doodle. I'm going to disagree with DBB (sorry) & say there are very few Breeders who health test & care about where their crosses end up.The parents of these crosses are mostly very poor quality & not even good representatives of their breed. One look at a popular website & you will see that but the same can also be said of many breeders of pedigree dogs.

Of course these dogs can make great pets, but so can all the crosses in rescues & pounds. While the designer breed trend is still popular, I have noticed that the prices are starting to drop. I have to adhere to a code of ethics, which means no crossbreeding but also has restrictions as to when & how often dogs/bitches are bred. There is no such welfare restrictions for non registered breeders.

em_cat

Hellrazer wrote: »

Ah stop will you.
The OP asked specifically for no designer breed comments yet you had to comment.
This really does my head in when people keep going on about so called "designer breeds"
Where do you think all our other pedigrees came from?
Yep--they were all designer breeds at some stage in their development.
FWIW there is a push to get goldendoodles and labradoodles breed recognised in the AKC. There is also a push in Australia for recognition.And if either of these Kennel clubs give recognition then the UK kennel club wont be far behind.




You didn't have to say it at all.

Yes I did, b/c the fact is that tea-cups, mini this mini that, non shed, hypoallergenic, perpetual puppy dog face, doodle, spoodle, jug, malti shon etc are all designer breeds with designer prices and with little to no health, temperament or welfare policies to be had or seen.

DBB raises some very interesting points that are worthy of discussion but yet to date I’ve yet to come across any designer breeder who breeds with those conditions in place.

To add if the OP didn’t want it commented on then they should have left it out when posting, asking people not to comment is a red flag.

DBB

Choc Chip wrote: »

I'm not arguing that it can't happen. I think it would be a better idea than making working breeds like malinois into pet dogs.


However I don't think that, practically, it is happening. At least, I've not seen it and I'm not sure it will happen while Ireland has BYB and puppy farmed alternatives that are so much cheaper for someone who is looking for a pet.

The truth is that when it comes to purebred dogs in Ireland, there isn't much (or anywhere near enough) happening practically... So what hope is there for nicely produced crossbreeds here?
Ireland is very backwards when it comes to dog breeding. I'm willing to put a lot of money that the number of people who purposely source pups from an ideal breeder is vanishingly small. There are a few reasons for this. For instance, I have approached a certain breed club in an attempt to source the best pup I could, but like dozens of other people I've spoken to since, I was shrugged away. What do people do when this happens? They're pushed towards less reputable sources by the very people who should be supporting them.
With the two ends of the scale... obsession people have that pups should only come from show-winning parents, versus the utterly ignorant dog breeding laws we have here that promote and encourage mass production of crappy puppies, nothing good is going to happen re reputable dog breeding in Ireland any time soon.
But... Certainly with the Australian Labradoodle there are little ripples... And that has happened reasonably fast considering they haven't been here too long.

I think that a well-bred poodle would satisfy the needs of a lot of people. The people I speak to who want a designer cross tend to be looking for something that's not a poodle because "eww... poodle!" while they've never really looked at the breed.

I've found poodles to be a little complex for inexperienced owners... But again... Why should we promote a well-produced poodle over an equally well-produced -oodle when it comes to sourcing a great pet dog?
My overwhelming experience with why people want an oodle or doodle is a very straightforward "they're damn cute looking" Which, in fairness, they usually are! Popularity begets popularity too... A brief glance at any pets-for-sale site will reveal shedloads of French bulldogs... But that won't last. It'll be something else in another few years!

DBB

Knine wrote: »

I'm going to disagree with DBB (sorry) & say there are very few Breeders who health test & care about where their crosses end up.

I'm not claiming anything different, we're not disagreeing at all! There ARE very few breeders of crossbreeds who do what should be done... But when it comes to the Australian Labradoodle, there are a couple.
My whole argument is that people are very quick to say there's no such thing as a reputably bred doodle... This is simply not true across the board, and if, all of a sudden, breeders DID start producing excellent crossbreed dogs for the pet market... What's wrong with that?
Personally, I have little interest in how the parents of my puppy get on in the show ring. I want them to be healthy, sound, and most of all, bombproof, and I want their pups to be very well socialised, handled, living in the house etc. None of these is limited to purebred dogs. In theory (and it is mostly theoretical in Ireland, for now), there's no reason why crossbreeds shouldn't be produced for the pet market... As long as it's done right.

Knine

I have puppies arriving in two weeks but the sheer amount of inquiries I have gotten can be very overwhelming. People think we are like Tesco's. I will be lucky to have 4 or 5. To answer why people get shrugged off - many inquiries will never get a pup from me. In one such case last week. Someone actually working in the dog profession, asked to be considered for a bitch. They then told me about their friends elderly bitch who had just had a litter and were not impressed when I told them it was not ethical to breed from such an old dog but sure the Vet said it was ok. :mad:

DBB

I completely understand the level of screening that good breeders need to do... I'm the same with the purebred rescue I run... The amount of bullish!t enquiries is staggering.
But! There are lots of fantastic potential owners out there being shrugged off by *some* breed societies because of snobbery, and/or because of laziness, and/or lack of availability. The particular breed club I had my experience with is renowned for it, and they consequently fed people towards the puppy farmers, because they'd nowhere else to go if they wanted that particular breed. The breed club actually made no attempt whatsoever to screen me. They just didn't want to know, and I've yet to meet one single owner who managed to get a dog of this breed by going down the breed society route, despite trying to.
Once the puppy farmers get an inkling that there's a demand developing for a particular breed, they're onto it very quickly, and all of a sudden, they themselves are helping to fuel the hysterical popularity that breeds go through on a cyclical basis. That's before they inevitably destroy the breed due to rubbish genetics, rubbish care, and greed. But by then, the country is awash with poor examples of that breed and it can, and has, spelled the death knell for various breeds. Mark my words, the French Bulldog is going down precisely that route now, just as it has happened other breeds, and will happen to more once the Frenchie has gone by the wayside.
Good breeders, by definition, don't produce enough pups to fulfil demand (unless it's a really unusual or niche breed), but surely breeders and breed societies can help support potentially great owners through a waiting period... If people are still interested after a wait, it's usually a good sign!
Anyway... I'm going off-topic here! There appears to be quite strong regulation with the Australian Labradoodle societies in Australia, with stud books and genetic health testing etc, and this seems to be developing in Europe too,with an umbrella group which fulfils a similar role to any other breed society.

Choc Chip

Mulitquote is making me want to cry, but this probably would have turned into an essay.

DBB, I hate disagreeing with you and I think you're describing a theoretical situation that I have no problem with. However, I just don't think that in reality (with the possible exception of the australian labradoodle) people can find a well-bred oodle in Ireland or the UK (I'm assuming most folk won't go further afield). Having wasted hours of my life on the internet looking for my friend, I've found a few nice-looking poodle breeders (not showing - pet-type dogs that are health tested and with attention paid to COI) but not a single oodle breeder who promotes these things.

And I agree that poodles can be complex (only from reading, I've never had one) but I think we should be promoting well-bred poodles rather than well-bred oodles, because I don't think the latter exists in Ireland/ the UK. [I'm happy to accept that there might be an exception with a few australian labradoodle breeders] You are also far more likely to have an idea of what you're getting with a pure bred poodle compared to an oodle... and how do we know an oodle pup won't be just as complex and a poodle? Finally (promise) the people I know looking for a doodle think it will be hypoallergenic and only a few breeders seem to be honest about the fact that pups' coats can take after either parent.

Anyway, I think I'm getting away from the OP's question and I'm making myself late for work. Good luck with the thread everyone.

DBB

I think we're getting a bit bogged down here Choc Chip! I understand that the reality of sourcing well-produced crossbreeds is they're really not out there, and I have already clarified that this is the case. But that's not the point I'm trying to make here.
I am trying to encourage people to think about a scenario, which although theoretical at present, is absolutely achievable because it has been done with Australian Labradoodles. Indeed, it has by definition also been done with every modern breed, whereby there are breed societies and quality assurance schemes for the various crossbreeds, and there are reputable breeders producing excellent crossbreed dogs with the emphasis on producing super, safe, family pet dogs. What if this were to happen? What, if it happens, is the argument against crossbreeds over purebreeds?
I find that people are very quick to write the concept off, to immediately rail at the *disgrace* of putting two different breeds together, that if you're going to buy a pup it should be purebred and its parents should be successful show dogs. Why? Why the assumption that the progeny of show dogs are automatically going to be great family pets? Particularly in light of the IKC's (and the FCI and wider dog exhibiting field) failure to promote quality assurance across the board, their failure to really, properly address physically debilitating breed traits, their failure to screen breeders (because let's face it, even before the legislation came in, the vast majority of puppy-farmed dogs were, and are IKC registered... That means they're OK... Doesn't it??!), their adherence to breed standards which dictate that various breeds must be "fearless", "aloof", "loyal to one person", "independent" etc. By all means, if you're into showing and you want to produce dogs that conform to these breed temperament standards, go ahead... But do not try to convince me that dogs with these proudly heralded traits will make great family pets! Yet these are the very breeders that we religiously send prospective owners to when they're looking for a good quality pet dog?! The show ring is not and simply cannot be the place to judge whether a dog's temperament is suitable for creating great pet pups, and in fairness, I'm not sure they pretend it is... It's just that some people have it in their heads that just because a dog is successful in the show ring, it follows that their pups are going to make great family pets... This simply does not add up.
There are purebreed breeders out there who have rejected the show scene, and instead are concentrating on producing physically sound and temperamentally stable pet dogs that do not conform to the less family-pet-friendly breed temperament standards (and thankfully, don't necessarily conform to the debilitating breed physical standards either). The horror of it! So, what if crossbreed breeders were to do the same? As I said above, it is theoretically absolutely do-able.
I know for me, that when a family come to me looking for advice on getting a great family pet, there are two things that are a long way down my checklist. One is breed, one is whether one or both parents are show dogs. Now, before it is pointed out, yes I know there are breeders out there who show their dogs and produce lovely pets too, but the reality is that they're pretty hard to find, and when you do find them, chances are you'll have to wait a long time to get your pup.
So, in this respect, whether owners want a great purebred pet, or a great crossbreed pet, they've got a search on their hands, in Ireland anyway.
I'm just trying to get people to question why we're so hell bent on recommending purebreeds whilst showing such disgust for crossbreeds, when if both groups of pups are ethically produced to be physically and temperamentally as sound, when you're looking to buy a great family pet, does it really matter that your pup isn't a purebreed?

SillyMangoX

One of the major problems I have with the oodle breeds also is the grooming requirements. People buy into the “non-shed, hypoallergenic, low maintenance” line that I see in almost every ad for these designer crosses, when in fact they are one of the highest maintenance coats you can get.
When you mix the curls of a Bichon or poodle with a straight coat, they become almost impossible to keep well. And of course because people think they are low maintenance, they don’t brush half as often as they should and end up with a matted mess who has to be shaved. It’s highly disappointing for both owners and groomers!
I groom a couple of labradoodles here, every single one of them sheds just as much as their Labrador ancestors. Funnily enough the goldendoodles I groom don’t, but that’s sheerly anecdotal. Almost every cockapoo or cavachon on my books has to be taken short because the coat is just so hard to keep, bar the couple of people who keep them on a 6-8 week grooming schedule to keep the fluffy look.
It’s something a lot of people don’t consider when buying one of these dogs and it’s a shame because if you keep up with the grooming; they really can be stunning little things!

DBB

On your point SillyMangoX. .. If breeders of crossbreeds are going to do things well, as has *presumably* been done in the creation of every other modern breed, part of their remit would be to move away from first and second generation crosses only (too much variability), and to move towards their chosen cross "breeding true".. That is, that if you cross a maltichon to a maltichon, you'll get maltichon! As opposed to some pups taking more Maltese traits, and other pups (perhaps from the same litter) taking more Bichon traits. In other words, the maltichon itself becomes a breed in its own right... The same process that other modern breeds have undergone in the past 100-150 years.
Wrapped up in this process, whether it's maltichons or cavapoos or goldendoodles, is an education scheme and a quality assurance (or not) as to what "hypoallergenic" actually means. It's not just about coat type, their saliva needs to be hypoallergenic too in order for these dogs to be truly termed "hypoallergenic" (not sure it's the right word even if they were... Low-allergenic maybe?) Let's face it too... People who buy Bichons and other purebreeds with high-maintenance coats and then let the coat go out of control are out there in great numbers too!

Knine

The reason why people have to wait so long for a nice pup though is because Reputable Breeders don't do it for money but more likely because they want to keep a puppy for themselves or a family member. They do it for love of a breed. Also their puppies are in huge demand. Mine are not even born but have homes. Breeding is very very hard work when done right for very little pay off. I don't view crosses with disgust at all but I have seen my fair share of them with health issues or nasty temperaments. I don't view anybody producing them as Reputable, exactly the same way I view Breeders of purebreeds who churn out pedigree dogs with no concept of pedigrees, fit for function etc.

The majority of Show Breeders have high quality dogs who also make great pets. Many of us also judge & put a huge amount of time/training & effort into this. We have a large amount of dogs in Ireland that show & also have working Certificates. Pedigree Dogs usually have a purpose & many if them are still fit for this. The problem with hips/elbows etc in GSDs are not just limited to Show Dogs. I had a pet straight backed GSD that turned up in my class a few months back that had the worse case of HD I have ever seen.

I think the new popular breed in Ireland judging by the Pet Expo will be the Toads that they call pocket Bullies. These are not an FCI breed but apparently sell for big money. They can hardly walk or breathe.

em_cat

Knine wrote: »

I think the new popular breed in Ireland judging by the Pet Expo will be the Toads that they call pocket Bullies. These are not an FCI breed but apparently sell for big money. They can hardly walk or breathe.

Toad Pocket Bullies, I googled, now I cannot unsee & am pretty sure am traumatised

DBB

Knine wrote: »

The reason why people have to wait so long for a nice pup though is because Reputable Breeders don't do it for money but more likely because they want to keep a puppy for themselves or a family member. They do it for love of a breed. Also their puppies are in huge demand.

Absolutely not in dispute here at all, but the point I'm trying to make is that theoretically, the same could be said for crossbreed breeders, if they decided to set themselves up properly with breed clubs, compulsory health and genetic testing etc.
Part of the problem of people resorting to buying from less reputable sources is precisely because the good breeders just cannot meet demand. I don't really know what the answer to this is! But as it stands we have two opposite ends of the scale... Nowhere near enough well-produced dogs, and far, far too many poorly produced dogs.

I don't view crosses with disgust at all but I have seen my fair share of them with health issues or nasty temperaments. I don't view anybody producing them as Reputable, exactly the same way I view Breeders of purebreeds who churn out pedigree dogs with no concept of pedigrees, fit for function etc.

I have seen my fair share of unhealthy, nasty purebreeds and crossbreeds. I've seen my fair share of nasty dogs with sterling show-winning parentage too. The problem is simply this... There is no concerted effort in Ireland (and further afield) to concentrate on producing dogs that are fit for their more modern function as pet dogs
And again, if a group of doodle or oodle breeders did get together, and form an association, and insisted on top of the range health and genetic testing, and only produce an occasional litter, and pour themselves into socialising their pups really well... What's the difference between them and a reputable purebreed breeder, other than they don't show their dogs to be judged by an institution that clearly doesn't always have the dogs', or their potential owners', best interest at heart?

The majority of Show Breeders have high quality dogs who also make great pets. Many of us also judge & put a huge amount of time/training & effort into this. We have a large amount of dogs in Ireland that show & also have working Certificates. Pedigree Dogs usually have a purpose & many if them are still fit for this.

Again, I really want to emphasise that I'm talking about family pet dogs. Working function is not important for most families, and indeed that drive to work makes many breeds unsuitable or at least difficult for the average family to manage.
Yes, fit for working function usually implies they're physically correct... But it does not follow that the temperament will be suitable for a pet dog.
I know you and many others work very hard knine, and you're a credit to your breed. But you know as well as I do, that for every conscientious reputable breeder like yourself, there's at least one "reputable" breeder who doesn't produce nice dogs in a reputable, ethical way... One of these is a very well known international show judge who has sold, and still sells substandard pedigree and crossbreed puppies from his 3 pet shops, and I've had to help owners of dogs he himself bred, from prize winning stock, when their dogs had them cornered in the kitchen, and other aggressive episodes. This is not an isolated incident, I've met a number of breeds from top prize winning kennels that were basket cases. This particular man has absolutely flooded the northeast with puppy farmed pups that he charged a premium price for. If an international judge is at this, what chance is there for an innocent family trying to do the right thing by going to the man who goes to Crufts?
Plus, as I said above, the Irish kennel club is somewhat complicit in the puppy farm problem here... Registering any and all dogs, and ignoring letters sent to them with proof that registration papers are being falsified.

The problem with hips/elbows etc in GSDs are not just limited to Show Dogs. I had a pet straight backed GSD that turned up in my class a few months back that had the worse case of HD I have ever seen.

Yep, there'll always be that. But the science supports the fact that hip dysplasia is considerably more prevalent in slope-backed GSDs... Yet this sloped back is required by judges as the breed standard. Again... Complicitness by the kennel clubs that is feeding into a big problem.

I think the new popular breed in Ireland judging by the Pet Expo will be the Toads that they call pocket Bullies. These are not an FCI breed but apparently sell for big money. They can hardly walk or breathe.

Being an FCI breed isn't going to save them... Bulldogs, Pugs, French bulldogs, German Shepherds, Cavalier King Charles and King Charles... The FCI and particularly the kennel clubs could do a lot of good to help the public learn about and source healthy, non-mutant pups... But they don't.
There was a time that I wouldn't have considered buying a purebred dog that wasn't ikc registered... But as time has gone on, experience has taught me that they play no part in encouraging the production of excellent pet dogs... Yet they enjoy the benefits of people blindly saying "you must buy from an ikc registered breeder/breeder who shows their dogs". Give me a well bred doodle any day.

Choc Chip

I don't have any disgust for cross-breeds. I own one myself and I have a revolving door of cross-bred foster dogs coming through my house.

DBB, if what you're suggesting re. cross-breeds actually happens, I'll be the first to sign-up for a non-shedding shepherd-a-poo (genuinely - my house would be a million times cleaner). But until that is actually happening, I can't recommend doodles or breeders that are breeding mixed breeds, as I haven't yet come across any that were breeding responsibly. [australian labradoodles excluded as above]

I know there are issues with the kennel club and breed clubs, but what's the alternative? An entirely new governing board that focuses on health, temperament and early-life environment? That's great and also totally doable, but who's going to set all this up? And would people pay the extra money needed for these puppies to cover all the extra testing and care? I'd like to think so, but I doubt it.