Affordable housing

Engine No.9

A noble quest, but how would this even work?

https://www.facebook.com/1668251120/posts/10215780589102199/

Caranica

Engine No.9 wrote: »

A noble quest, but how would this even work?

https://www.facebook.com/1668251120/posts/10215780589102199/

It wouldn't. They wouldn't get the land, they wouldn't get planning for ten storeys and the allocation plans are ripe for abuse.

.G.

All housing should be affordable but we insist on ripping each other off in this country and very few of us see the benefit of it, the lads in control of the banks and the land do.

Mrs OBumble

He wants to be a not for profit property developer.

Old diesel

Hugh Brennan with O Caulann has a model with similarities to Pat Dorans idea.

It's easy to dismiss Pat Dorans idea out of hand.

He may not get....

10 story apartment blocks.

The "cheap" land

The zero profit project.

But we do need wider clarity on a number of issues going forward.

1) what is a fair margin for the developer - the margin the developer can be over 20 percent - which on a 300 k house is 60 k euros. Ultimately this needs paying for by the buyer. The 20 percent is actually required by banks to finance the project.

2) Hugh Brennan of O Caulann reckoned on his Ray Darcey interview in February that the land DCC let him have for 1 k a plot/unit would be 30 k at market rate. What's a fair land cost.

3) if Brennan wasn't running his relatively unique in Ireland project as he does - he would have to pay 8 k a unit on average in development levies.

Transpatency and proper discussion is needed because you have people talking of reducing standards to make "housing viable".

Yer above we not only have 97 k of cost for a buyer of 300 k home that has NOTHING to do with delivering an A2 or A3 rated BER home. And that's not including the 13.5 percent vat.

If the 13.5 percent is based on 300 k - then that's 40,500 euro of the price.

Potential NOTHING to do with having to build A rated homes costs could be over 130 k.

Hugh Brennan has delivered 3 bed A2 rated homes for 170 to 180 k a unit.

Down in Wexford a local builder Michael Bennett has delivered Passive house 3 beds for 190 k a unit. Passive house - yes that's passive house as in the excellent German standard for 190 k.

I realise that Bennett did the homes for that price because of things like having cheap land in Enniscorthy. But for me if a guy can do a Passive house for 190 k in Ireland no matter where it is - then you have to ask why he did it while others won't get a shovel out for less then 300 k.

We should also be developing a discussion on what costings we should be aiming for long term 40 to 50 year long term rental from a tenants viewpoint.

The difference between 180 k and 300 k in house terms to buy has HUGE implications for tenant rent over many years. Huge implications.

Say what you like about car PCPs but even the dieselgate shysters at VW will give you a breakdown of your full PCP costings - that you can track to both ends of the PCP.

You can see what original list price the car is and the guaranteed future value.

Housing lacks that

Bluefoam

Old diesel wrote: »

Hugh Brennan with O Caulann has a model with similarities to Pat Dorans idea.

It's easy to dismiss Pat Dorans idea out of hand.

He may not get....

10 story apartment blocks.

The "cheap" land

The zero profit project.

But we do need wider clarity on a number of issues going forward.

1) what is a fair margin for the developer - the margin the developer can be over 20 percent - which on a 300 k house is 60 k euros. Ultimately this needs paying for by the buyer. The 20 percent is actually required by banks to finance the project.

2) Hugh Brennan of O Caulann reckoned on his Ray Darcey interview in February that the land DCC let him have for 1 k a plot/unit would be 30 k at market rate. What's a fair land cost.

3) if Brennan wasn't running his relatively unique in Ireland project as he does - he would have to pay 8 k a unit on average in development levies.

Transpatency and proper discussion is needed because you have people talking of reducing standards to make "housing viable".

Yer above we not only have 97 k of cost for a buyer of 300 k home that has NOTHING to do with delivering an A2 or A3 rated BER home. And that's not including the 13.5 percent vat.

If the 13.5 percent is based on 300 k - then that's 40,500 euro of the price.

Potential NOTHING to do with having to build A rated homes costs could be over 130 k.

Hugh Brennan has delivered 3 bed A2 rated homes for 170 to 180 k a unit.

Down in Wexford a local builder Michael Bennett has delivered Passive house 3 beds for 190 k a unit. Passive house - yes that's passive house as in the excellent German standard for 190 k.

I realise that Bennett did the homes for that price because of things like having cheap land in Enniscorthy. But for me if a guy can do a Passive house for 190 k in Ireland no matter where it is - then you have to ask why he did it while others won't get a shovel out for less then 300 k.

We should also be developing a discussion on what costings we should be aiming for long term 40 to 50 year long term rental from a tenants viewpoint.

The difference between 180 k and 300 k in house terms to buy has HUGE implications for tenant rent over many years. Huge implications.

Say what you like about car PCPs but even the dieselgate shysters at VW will give you a breakdown of your full PCP costings - that you can track to both ends of the PCP.

You can see what original list price the car is and the guaranteed future value.

Housing lacks that

wow, thats allot of stuff... Difference between a property and a car is that a car has a limited lifespan and a decreasing value. A property is effected by a number of things: the land; location and amenity of the land; the house type on the land; how the house it built on the land; cost of maintenance... All of these things can vary imensely and be subjective or objective. You cannot apply simple accounting rules to the act of purchasing a home. Houses can last hundreds of years based on build quality, locationa and application of maintenance...

Old diesel

Bluefoam wrote: »

wow, thats allot of stuff... Difference between a property and a car is that a car has a limited lifespan and a decreasing value. A property is effected by a number of things: the land; location and amenity of the land; the house type on the land; how the house it built on the land; cost of maintenance... All of these things can vary imensely and be subjective or objective. You cannot apply simple accounting rules to the act of purchasing a home. Houses can last hundreds of years based on build quality, locationa and application of maintenance...

Im afraid if we are going to......

1) pay 2000 a month rent.

2) have a colder house so it can be "cheaper" .

Then we need to develop an understanding of the costs behind a need to make a colder house or charge 2,000 euros rent.

We could actually look at reducing costs if we understand what they are and why they are there.

Housing is too important for random subjectivity.

It's unacceptable to have to pay 2000 euros per month today because someone paid too much for a house in 2007.

It's unacceptable to have an inferior house because some idiot paid too much for the land and has to make up for that by making the house cheaper to build.

Bluefoam

Rent is expensive because people are willing to pay it... BER is there to make you aware of heating costs and heat retention of the building ... You can chose not to rent it, or to offer a lower price.

Old diesel

Bluefoam wrote: »

Rent is expensive because people are willing to pay it... BER is there to make you aware of heating costs and heat retention of the building ... You can chose not to rent it, or to offer a lower price.

What I meant by BER is the argument that's put forward sometimes that new houses are too expensive to build and that the standards should be relaxed

Bluefoam

Old diesel wrote: »

What I meant by BER is the argument that's put forward sometimes that new houses are too expensive to build and that the standards should be relaxed

BER is only a rating... But if you are suggesting that we move backwards in the way we build houses, well that doesn't sound appropriate. Remember, that most houses built are bought privately & the owners want a specific quality of living & are willing to pay for it. If we don't apply the standards we will get pyrite problems again, lack of fire safety, poor build quality, increased polution, additional maintenance and heating costs... The owners in Sandyford have just been given a bill of €10m for remedial work.

Houses aren't too expensive to build because of quality... they are too expensive to build due to 'asset inflation'... we are a small ecomony with limited access to rescources... things are expensive.