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10k to Half Marathon

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  • 29-11-2018 9:58pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭


    Hi folks,

    Looking for some advice please? I've completed three 10k races over the last 5 months Rock & Roll 59.30 mins/ Local fun run in 59.00 mins (with a buggy) & 57.35 mins in the MoRun. I felt I should have completed the last run in sub 56 mins, but didnt happen on the day.

    I have decided to run the Rock & Roll half marathon in Aug. Can i ask for someone to recommend a training plan to follow? I would like to complete the half in sub 1.45. If improving my 10k along the way the better.

    I think i have confused myself by over complicating my pacing.

    Current training paces:
    Tues 3 miles @ 9.4min/mil
    Wed intervals 0.25 miles x 12 @ 8.25 min/mil
    Thurs 3 miles @ 9.4min/mil
    LSR 8 miles @ 10.50min/mil

    Any feedback advice is appreciated.

    G


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,807 ✭✭✭skyblue46


    Best of luck with this. It's quite a step to jump from a 57 minute 10k to a 1:45 half. That'll take a lot of work. To be honest you are best training well for the next few months and then run the half to the best of your ability be that 1:35 or 1:55. Don't get caught up on times. Have you looked at Hal Higdon plans? Perhaps you could do a 10k plan before stepping up to a half training plan?


  • Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭Graham1882


    skyblue46 wrote:
    Best of luck with this. It's quite a step to jump from a 57 minute 10k to a 1:45 half. That'll take a lot of work. To be honest you are best training well for the next few months and then run the half to the best of your ability be that 1:35 or 1:55. Don't get caught up on times. Have you looked at Hal Higdon plans? Perhaps you could do a 10k plan before stepping up to a half training plan?

    Cheers Skyblue, ah yeah I appreciate its some step up from my current level. Reach for the stars and then see where i am at closer to the date. I am getting myself totally confused/ caught up on the pacing of what the training runs should be. I was looking at the Hal Higdon plan but was wondering about the pace the runs should be. TIA

    G


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,807 ✭✭✭skyblue46


    http://www.runfastcoach.com/calc2/index.php

    This has a good training paces calculator.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20 Sky Blue 20


    Graham1882 wrote: »
    Hi folks,

    Looking for some advice please? I've completed three 10k races over the last 5 months Rock & Roll 59.30 mins/ Local fun run in 59.00 mins (with a buggy) & 57.35 mins in the MoRun. I felt I should have completed the last run in sub 56 mins, but didnt happen on the day.

    I have decided to run the Rock & Roll half marathon in Aug. Can i ask for someone to recommend a training plan to follow? I would like to complete the half in sub 1.45. If improving my 10k along the way the better.

    I think i have confused myself by over complicating my pacing.

    Current training paces:
    Tues 3 miles @ 9.4min/mil
    Wed intervals 0.25 miles x 12 @ 8.25 min/mil
    Thurs 3 miles @ 9.4min/mil
    LSR 8 miles @ 10.50min/mil

    Any feedback advice is appreciated.

    G

    Try to pick up your 3 mile pace to about 8-30.
    Won't be that hard I think.
    You are doing well.
    Few times at it and it should come good.
    Maybe!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,807 ✭✭✭skyblue46


    Jesus how do I contradict someone who has taken my name? Don't even consider training at 8:30 for 3 miles when it's faster than your 10k pace...pure nuts.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭Graham1882


    Going by that im thinking 9.16 min/mil for midweek runs and 8.25 min/mil for interval/5k race mode.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,807 ✭✭✭skyblue46


    Graham1882 wrote: »
    Going by that im thinking 9.16 min/mil for midweek runs and 8.25 min/mil for interval/5k race mode.

    You'd be so far off!!! You put your current best race pace into the calculator not a target time. You should be running 12 minute miles midweek


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,020 ✭✭✭Kellygirl


    You could get somebody to buy you the book, Faster Road Racing by Peter Pfitzinger and Philip Latter, for Christmas. It’s a great read and will explain the paces different training runs should be at. It also has training plans in it for after you’ve read the first section.

    If you train too fast you’ll end up injured and / or burnt out. 1-2 session a week, a long run and really easyrunning is what you want to do.


  • Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭Graham1882


    Apologies Skyblue, this where i am confusing myself. When i use the calculator above [thank you for this by the way) , it is saying "mile" 9.16 with my recent 10k?


  • Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭Graham1882


    Kellygirl wrote:
    You could get somebody to buy you the book, Faster Road Racing by Peter Pfitzinger and Philip Latter, for Christmas. It’s a great read and will explain the paces different training runs should be at. It also has training plans in it for after you’ve read the first section.

    Kellygirl wrote:
    If you train too fast you’ll end up injured and / or burnt out. 1-2 session a week, a long run and really easyrunning is what you want to do.


    Thanks Kellygirl must start dropping the hints now for Christmas.

    From reading the other threads slow and steady is the way forward. Unfortunately patience is not my strongest.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,020 ✭✭✭Kellygirl


    Graham1882 wrote: »
    Apologies Skyblue, this where i am confusing myself. When i use the calculator above [thank you for this by the way) , it is saying "mile" 9.16 with my recent 10k?

    Click on the Training Paces tab for the paces for all the different type of training runs.
    The ‘mile’ is the pace you did your 10km at.
    Graham1882 wrote: »
    Thanks Kellygirl must start dropping the hints now for Christmas.

    From reading the other threads slow and steady is the way forward. Unfortunately patience is not my strongest.

    You don’t have to do slow and steady every day but you need to build your aerobic fitness which is what the easy runs will do for you and also they’ll allow you to recover from a session and have you fresh and ready for the next.


  • Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭Graham1882


    Kellygirl wrote:
    Click on the Training Paces tab for the paces for all the different type of training runs. The ‘mile’ is the pace you did your 10km at.


    Thanks Kellygirl, jesus i feel like an idiot now haha.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,020 ✭✭✭Kellygirl


    Graham1882 wrote: »
    Thanks Kellygirl, jesus i feel like an idiot now haha.

    Not at all. Everybody has to start somewhere. Try and apply the paces to your training though. It’s very hard to go so slow on your easy runs initially and feels strange but you do get used to it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,292 ✭✭✭ariana`


    Kellygirl wrote: »
    Not at all. Everybody has to start somewhere. Try and apply the paces to your training though. It’s very hard to go so slow on your easy runs initially and feels strange but you do get used to it.

    And you might even grow to enjoy it - there's something nice about not finishing every run feeling flogged. It definitely will lend itself to longevity, you may not break 1:45 on your first half marathon but if you stick with it then there is every chance that eventually you will break 1:45 and even 1:44, 1:43, 1:42.... Why limit yourself ;)

    Great advice, you won't go far wrong if you apply it.

    Best of luck.


  • Registered Users Posts: 950 ✭✭✭oinkely


    Kellygirl wrote: »
    Graham1882 wrote: »
    Thanks Kellygirl, jesus i feel like an idiot now haha.

    Not at all. Everybody has to start somewhere. Try and apply the paces to your training though. It’s very hard to go so slow on your easy runs initially and feels strange but you do get used to it.

    You definitely get used to it. I've taken on board recent advice here on this. Was running most of the time at 5min km pace. Deliberate slow down to 5.45 to 6 and building steady consistent mileage. Was hard to discipline myself initially but three weeks in and it's normal. Do still have to remind myself to slow down but less than I did at the start. Hoping to see the returns next year in October for DCM


  • Registered Users Posts: 20 Sky Blue 20


    skyblue46 wrote: »
    Jesus how do I contradict someone who has taken my name? Don't even consider training at 8:30 for 3 miles when it's faster than your 10k pace...pure nuts.

    No you need to be doing the shorter distances faster than your overall race distance.
    You will slow over the 10k race but it shows in your mind you can do a faster pace.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,020 ✭✭✭Kellygirl


    No you need to be doing the shorter distances faster than your overall race distance.
    You will slow over the 10k race but it shows in your mind you can do a faster pace.

    Not in every training run though!


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,582 ✭✭✭Swashbuckler


    Given the OP's best case scenario 10k pace would be 9min/mile it make no sense to run 3 miles at 8.30 every week.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 354 ✭✭El CabaIIo


    No you need to be doing the shorter distances faster than your overall race distance.
    You will slow over the 10k race but it shows in your mind you can do a faster pace.

    Not really, you're giving your mind way too much credit. You won't outrun your bodies capability and your bodies capability comes from training. What if I told you that 27 minute 10k Kenyans run 80-90% of their training at much slower than marathon pace. That some of those guys shuffle out the door at 8 minute mile pace somedays for a 10k run(in a race, they can hold under 4:30 per mile pace for that distance). That they never ever run 3 miles straight at 10k pace or faster in training.

    Running is an endurance event and the key to gaining endurance is to run more, how can you do that if you are bollixed from running hard all the time? You can't. There is a reason the vast majority of the best runners run 90-150 miles every week and the only way they can do that is by monitoring the intensity of their runs. If your theory on training is the best way, why don't all these guys stop wasting their time running 10-15 hours a week and just go out and run 27 minutes at 10k pace 5 days a week and 13 minutes at 5k pace 2 days a week as that would only cost them 3 hours of time every week?

    Believe me, what you are suggesting is the oldest form of training known to man, basically go out and run as fast as you can for that distance. People stopped doing that because they figured out it doesn't work best and training evolved over a hundred years since and the 10k world record dropped over 7 minutes since to the point where Eliud Kipchoge running his recent marathon World record would've been a mile ahead of the 10k world record holder from 100+ years ago at 10k and he would keep going for another 32km after while they lay wheezing on the side of the road.

    A lot of volume at lower intensity with a hint of interval type workouts is key.

    For the OP who is looking for advice. Drop back the pace a good bit on those midweek runs and try to add more distance to them like reguraly getting 5/6 milers in midweek, once you do that, add another day of running and build that up to the same. Forget about extending the long run for a while, the long run is overrated for newer runners as it causes more recovery problems than gradual stimulus across the whole week. Midweek mileage is so much more important than the long run. Drop the 400's completely for a while and build up that run to 5/6 miles, when you get to a point where you can run all those midweek easy 6 milers very comfortably, add in one workout like 2 miles @10k pace into those runs and do it every second week, This is what they call a threshold workout which is about 20 minutes at the pace you can hold for one hour in a race which just so happens to be your 10k pace right now(if you get your 10k down to 50 minutes, the tempo will be slower than 10k pace)This is not an all out effort but should feel a little uncomfortsble. For the week in between, add a workout of 3-4 miles at half marathon pace, this is called a tempo workout and will be the pace you can hold RIGHT NOW- not dream pace for just around two hours. So basically a progression like this:

    Gradual buildup to

    Slow runs substantially
    5/6 miles 3 times a week w/8m LR

    When comfortable
    Add day and build-up to that 5/6

    When comfortable
    Add workout mentioned above 1 day per week and alternate it bi-weekly with other workout

    When comfortable
    Build long run to 10 miles(no futher)

    When comfortable
    Add another day and build-up to 5/6

    When comfortable
    Add another day and build-up

    Every 4th week, cut back mileage 75%(if you are doing 28 the week before(run 21 on the down week)(not an excuse to run faster because you are running less miles-the idea of this week is recovery so treat it that way)

    You can also add strides early on 1-2 days a week(these are sprints for about 10 seconds at 80-90% of top speed(leave 2-3 minutes in between each one and repeat 4-6 times)

    This is a really simple plan but that's what you need right now imo, this should take you a while to build up to-gradual is key here to keep you healthy and consistent-Listen to your body and have patience in doing these steps. You've got 9 months here so no rush. When you get through these steps, you should be well setup to try a half marathon plan. You will not beat frequency and overall volume in training


  • Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭Graham1882


    Kellygirl wrote:
    Not at all. Everybody has to start somewhere. Try and apply the paces to your training though. It’s very hard to go so slow on your easy runs initially and feels strange but you do get used to it.

    ariana` wrote:
    And you might even grow to enjoy it - there's something nice about not finishing every run feeling flogged. It definitely will lend itself to longevity, you may not break 1:45 on your first half marathon but if you stick with it then there is every chance that eventually you will break 1:45 and even 1:44, 1:43, 1:42.... Why limit yourself

    Thanks both, really enjoy the running great for clearing the head.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭Graham1882


    oinkely wrote:
    You definitely get used to it. I've taken on board recent advice here on this. Was running most of the time at 5min km pace. Deliberate slow down to 5.45 to 6 and building steady consistent mileage. Was hard to discipline myself initially but three weeks in and it's normal. Do still have to remind myself to slow down but less than I did at the start. Hoping to see the returns next year in October for DCM

    Best of luck with the DCM training. I am quietly aiming for 2020 to do it myself


  • Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭Graham1882


    El CabaIIo wrote:
    For the OP who is looking for advice. Drop back the pace a good bit on those midweek runs and try to add more distance to them like reguraly getting 5/6 milers in midweek, once you do that, add another day of running and build that up to the same. Forget about extending the long run for a while, the long run is overrated for newer runners as it causes more recovery problems than gradual stimulus across the whole week. Midweek mileage is so much more important than the long run. Drop the 400's completely for a while and build up that run to 5/6 miles, when you get to a point where you can run all those midweek easy 6 milers very comfortably, add in one workout like 2 miles @10k pace into those runs and do it every second week, This is what they call a threshold workout which is about 20 minutes at the pace you can hold for one hour in a race which just so happens to be your 10k pace right now(if you get your 10k down to 50 minutes, the tempo will be slower than 10k pace)This is not an all out effort but should feel a little uncomfortsble. For the week in between, add a workout of 3-4 miles at half marathon pace, this is called a tempo workout and will be the pace you can hold RIGHT NOW- not dream pace for just around two hours. So basically a progression like this:


    Thank you El Caballo for the detailed response. You answered exactly what my follow on question was about increases.

    Thanks
    G


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