District Court cost?

clivej

Quick question here...........

How much does it cost to take the Super to the District court?

gunny123

clivej wrote: »

Quick question here...........

How much does it cost to take the Super to the District court?

Pop into your local solicitor and ask. Does not sound good Clive, what has happened ?

clivej

gunny123 wrote: »

Pop into your local solicitor and ask. Does not sound good Clive, what has happened ?

No all good here. I think I'm lucky with my FO (Fiona a lovely lady), Super and CS. here in Kilkenny City.
Just reading a post in Target Shooting bout a lad only allowed 1 mag for his handgun by the Super.

gunny123

clivej wrote: »

No all good here. I think I'm lucky with my FO (Fiona a lovely lady), Super and CS. here in Kilkenny City.
Just reading a post in Target Shooting bout a lad only allowed 1 mag for his handgun by the Super.

Where will the nonsense end ?

Grizzly 45

How long is a piece of string??
Depends on your solicitor and how expensive they are.
To lodge the proceeding documents in your local DC is only, I think around 40 quid. Writing it up properly is where the legal skill comes in.
Then it depends do you want to get a junior counsel, that knows his stuff about firearms,or do you want to go utterly solo? Keeping in mind the adage."The man who represents himself has a fool for a client!"[Coined no doubt by the legal eagles themselves]

Then do you want expert witnesses as well?factor in their expenses and distance to attend.

In short, be prepared to maybe drop between 1to5k on the table if you are going this route.OTOH if you win you are entitled to reclaim costs on this too.

PM me if you want the name of an excellent JC who specialises in firearms cases,and has won over 90% of the cases here in Ireland.
He was a former Garda firearms instructor himself, so he knows their thinking and methods.

Grizzly 45

OK,after reading that about allowing only one mag.a short sharp solicitors letter to the Super should be sorting that out.Explaining the reasons he needs two or more mags for competitions,with a mention of being happy to go to court on this too.

BattleCorp

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

OK,after reading that about allowing only one mag.a short sharp solicitors letter to the Super should be sorting that out.Explaining the reasons he needs two or more mags for competitions,with a mention of being happy to go to court on this too.

Two mags would be useless. You need more than that.

You need at least four mags for GP40. Three for the 25m stage (5 shots sitting, 5 shots kneeling and 5 shots standing all in 90 seconds) and at least one spare mag in case you get a malfunction/misfire during this stage.

But like you said, a solicitor's letter explaining all this to the Super should result in a change of mind.

NASRPC

It can be recommended to contact the Firearms Policy Unit of An Garda Siochana and ask them to write back to you outlining what the policy is?

Then ask for a letter from your Club, perhaps your NGB in support of your needing multiple magazines to compete.

Then write to your super, outlining your case, attaching the supporting letters outlining why you need multiple magazines to compete and asking for him/her to outline the reasons they have for restricting you in this way.

If after all that - you get no satisfaction - you could seek a review of their decision through the courts.

I am no expert - but as you have not been refused, this is not an appeal - but rather you would be seeking a Judicial review of their decision - which would be the High Court.

You should speak to people who are experts in this area, not just a solicitor someone knows.

NASRPC

Grizzly 45

You should speak to people who are experts in this area, not just a solicitor someone knows.

NASRPC

I really hope that was not aimed in my direction???

NASRPC

Nothing is ever aimed at anyone.

NASRPC

Captainaxiom

NASRPC wrote: »

Nothing is ever aimed at anyone.

NASRPC

Come on grizzly you have to give them credit for the wit in that reply.

Grizzly 45

I hope so, that they obviously now have a crack legal team to defend any members as the surely have "people who are experts in this area, not just a solicitor someone knows."

Pity NASRPC didn't have any of this in place back from 2008/2012.
It would have been a great help as well as a necessity back then. Maybe we would have a few more CF pistol shooters around today too if they had.I, and others certainly agreed on that point as we went out of a meeting in a hotel, ironically around this time of year too in 2008. Where the advice was given to us was "You are on your own on this lads, You'll have to get your own legal representation."From the NASRPC!!

But of course, this is all water under the bridge and we must move on now.So I'm sure NASRPC will be only too happy to deal with this lads one mag problem,as he is no doubt a member via club affilation? Even if it comes to an "Ultima Ratio" situation in a court room??;):)

NASRPC

NASRPC do not represent anyone in court, nor provide legal advise.


In this case we are simply stating that there are structures in place for someone to "seek clarification" of their circumstances and that they should avail of them, in the first instance.

Starting with the Gardai; Firearms Policy Unit and the Issuing Officer.
We are also recommending that they do everything in writing, so "on the record".

In many cases, this is sufficient to resolve any mistakes in licensing.

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Should they not achieve satisfaction via those routes - then they have the option to avail of the courts to adjudicate on the matter.

But, in this particular case, as they have not been refused, we believe (but are not experts) it is not a licensing appeal, but rather a judicial review of a decision.

However, this is not a decision to be taken lightly, as it may have a significant cost, if lost.

Any decisions reached, good or bad, may also have implications for other, or future, license holders and applicants, if taken through a court of record, which the high court is, should a judicial review be sought - so the question that is asked is of the utmost importance.

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That is a decision that should be made with their chosen legal representatives - who should be aware of any possible implications for other, or future, license holders or applicants. i.e. experts in the field of firearms licensing.

NASRPC

BillBen

Speaking on experience. just over 5k clive.

Cadpat_cowboy

NASRPC wrote: »

NASRPC do not represent anyone in court, nor provide legal advise.

What does the nasrpc do? I'm fairly new to shooting so excuses my ignorance.

clivej

Cadpat_cowboy wrote: »

What does the nasrpc do? I'm fairly new to shooting so excuses my ignorance.

Take money from range clubs to arrange National shooting competitions each year at those clubs. Very little else.
All the comps. are open anyway so you can shoot them if you wish too..

Cadpat_cowboy

clivej wrote: »

Take money from range clubs to arrange National shooting competitions each year at those clubs. Very little else.
All the comps. are open anyway so you can shoot them if you wish too..

Surely they do more then that? Could range owners not organise them between them self? Do they not lobby the government or run course to grow the support?

Hack12

Shooting in Ireland is divided up into different governing bodies rather than one shooting body which I personally think is a bad thing for shooting in general in Ireland. If we had one body we may have a bigger crossover of shooters gallery to bench, F class etc as people would see other disciplines more....

The NASRPC does run training days etc and competitions plus the Irish Open which takes up a lot of time. It's a volunteer body with a small number of people (like the majority of shooting NGB's) so they're limited to time availability etc. The clubs own the NASRPC so in practice they are organising the competitions for the member clubs.

They also sit on the FCP. I'm unsure of other roles they do but as I said it's all volunteer's so time is limited.

Grizzly 45

Probably the worst thing that could happen to us in shooting. Imagine a bunch of Fudds or the Collation of vested interests in charge of representing ALL shooting sports here? Be like the GAA looking after rugby,soccer,snooker and bowling,just because "balls" are involved.

It's fine the way it is,and all it needs is simply what we had back in 2014,a non aggression and mutual defence of sport clause. IE one section gets attacked, all sections move to support and defend it. Its how German shooting sports orgs manage to punch well above their weight class and have fought off two proposed bans in post two school shootings situations.

Cadpat_cowboy

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Probably the worst thing that could happen to us in shooting. Imagine a bunch of Fudds or the Collation of vested interests in charge of representing ALL shooting sports here? Be like the GAA looking after rugby,soccer,snooker and bowling,just because "balls" are involved.

It's fine the way it is,and all it needs is simply what we had back in 2014,a non aggression and mutual defence of sport clause. IE one section gets attacked, all sections move to support and defend it. Its how German shooting sports orgs manage to punch well above their weight class and have fought off two proposed bans in post two school shootings situations.

What happened since 2014? Is there any group that is actively going to the government lobbying for less restricted laws?

Cadpat_cowboy

Hack12 wrote: »

Shooting in Ireland is divided up into different governing bodies rather than one shooting body which I personally think is a bad thing for shooting in general in Ireland. If we had one body we may have a bigger crossover of shooters gallery to bench, F class etc as people would see other disciplines more....

The NASRPC does run training days etc and competitions plus the Irish Open which takes up a lot of time. It's a volunteer body with a small number of people (like the majority of shooting NGB's) so they're limited to time availability etc. The clubs own the NASRPC so in practice they are organising the competitions for the member clubs.

They also sit on the FCP. I'm unsure of other roles they do but as I said it's all volunteer's so time is limited.

Good to hear about the training days what sort of training is it? I get what you are saying about the several small body's relying on volunteering. What is the fcp?

BattleCorp

Cadpat_cowboy wrote: »

What happened since 2014? Is there any group that is actively going to the government lobbying for less restricted laws?

One group supposedly representing shooters seems to be going to the Government lobbying for laws that make it more difficult for shooters.

Gobsh1teism of the highest order.

BattleCorp

Cadpat_cowboy wrote: »

Good to hear about the training days what sort of training is it? I get what you are saying about the several small body's relying on volunteering. What is the fcp?

The FCP is the Firearms Consultative Panel. It is pretty much a committee that consists of representatives from the Government, Gardaí, Department of Justice and Shooting Organisations that meet to discuss shooting related issues.

It has no real power but can be very useful in sorting out issues (there have been successes from it) or disastrous when gobsh1tes act the fcuk on it. It doesn't help when two shooting organisations engage in open warfare while they are on the FCP, all in full view of the authorities. Talk about shooting ourselves in the foot, both feet actually.

Overall the FCP is a brilliant tool, just so long as some people on it don't behave like tools.

Hack12

Training days is usally for Gallery Rifle and pistol shooting with the NASRPC.

NASRPC

NASRPC occasionally run Training Days - but mostly it is the clubs themselves.

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In the last year NASRPC have run:

2 x Beginner Open days
To introduce new people to our sport - Pistol & Rifle

2 x Gallery Rifle Training Days
With Current World Cup holders and Current World Champions.

1 x RO Upskill training
To show ROs how to work at National Events & The Irish Open

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So far in 2019 we have

1 x Match Admin & CRO Upskilling (Jan 12 @ Hilltop)
To help Clubs develop the skills to manage and run their own National Competition or club competitions.

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There are a number of open & training days coming up over the next months

We'll publish more detail as they get closer.

NASRPC

NASRPC

Cadpat_cowboy wrote: »

What does the nasrpc do? I'm fairly new to shooting so excuses my ignorance.

The NASRPC is an NGB formed of target shooting clubs - so mostly we do whatever they say.

We are not-for-profit and are totally volunteer run.

This year we were 40 years old.

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We have to try and ensure the rules are followed.

We have the aims and objectives of the Association, as agreed by the members, which we try to fulfil.

These include organising National Competitions and maintaining National Classifications.

To do that we must ensure the rules for National Competitor Ranking are followed.

We must ensure the rules of the association, as outlined in our Constitution are followed.

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We are also the NGB with responsibility for a number of sports - Sporting Rifle, Gallery Rifle, Target Pistol & Target Shotgun.

We also support any other disciplines which our members support- such as Benchrest Rifle, Metallic Silhouettes, WA1500, Long Range Rifle, Classic Rifle, Target Rifle, Olympic Pistol, etc. (all of whom have their own representative groups)

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Clubs throughout the Island host Nationally Graded Competitions where people try to get a personal best, a class promotion, a medal and perhaps jump a spot or two on the National Leaderboard.

Those Leaderboards are then used to pick the Championship Finalists and the National Teams.

We organise and run a range of National Championships Finals, each year

And we organise and run the flagship event - the multi day Irish Open, each year

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Our income is solely from affiliation fees (€200/annum) and Match Entry Fees (varies a lot).

We give Ranges €250/day for repairs to their range when they host us (we don't wreck the pace, but the middle of the target boards get pretty shot out and the bins get fairly full)

We have also contributed some money to help upgrade facilities in a few clubs over the years - especially in the run up to the Irish Open.

We give International Team members €250 toward the cost of their Transport and accommodation when representing the country abroad.

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As a member of the IGRF (International Gallery Rifle Federation) we must field teams in the IGRF International Series and host our own leg of the Series.

In 2017 we hosted the IGRF World Cup (and Irish Competitors won it) aswell as the IGRF World Championships (and Irish Competitors won it)

We provide some travel subsidies (€250) to those that qualify for the teams when representing Ireland abroad - in Britain, Germany and, in 2019, in the IGRF World Cup in South Africa (€500).
This is try and help ensure we field our best teams and not just the best team that can afford it.
It's only a pittance in comparison to what they pay in terms of firearms, ammo, practice and competition - to qualify to represent their country - but its all we can afford and the very least we can do.

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As a member of the ITSF (International Target Shotgun Federation) we are helping to grow their International Series.

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As a member of the Firearms Consultative Panel, we represent our members, our sports and target shooting in general.

The FCP meets very rarely, at the behest of the Minister or delegates - and it is a one way street - we get told what has happened.

Our agenda in this forum is primarily around the creation of the Central Licensing Authority which was discussed with the Joint Oireachtais Justice Committee, and which we were told was to be investigated, a number of years ago.

However the last FCP meeting was only to alter the membership of it and create subgroups within it. No matters pertaining to Firearms or Firearms Licensing were permitted to be discussed and there was no agenda item for AOB, where those topics could be brought up.

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And occasionally, when the planets line up, the rain falls up and nobody is looking ......

we like to shoot.

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NASRPC

gunny123

BattleCorp wrote: »

One group supposedly representing shooters seems to be going to the Government lobbying for laws that make it more difficult for shooters.

Gobsh1teism of the highest order.

Nope, gobsh1teism would suggest stupidity or incompetence. What you should have said was downright cute hoorism/gangsterism.