New electric Porsche 400km range looks stunning

IrishHomer

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/all-electric-porsche-to-travel-400km-on-20-minute-charge-1.3709875

Porsche’s all-electric Taycan model, due next year, will let drivers travel about 400 kilometres after charging the vehicle for less than 20 minutes, the company’s chief Executive said in an interview.

ELM327

Pretty useless currently as no chargers support 800v bar a couple of test ones in Germany.
The max it could take is 500v*125a in Ireland. When Ionity comes out on a wider scale it could take more, but it illustrates a different need. The need to measure the car's DC capability and the speed of the charger unit in Volts and Amps as opposed to kW.

EG: 100kW can be 100a by 1000v or 800a by 125v, or anything in between (eg ~320a, ~320v like the Tesla Superchargers for instance)

The porsche above could take 80kW, 50kW, and 120kW at the above speeds. It would need a charger spec exactly matching 800v and the max rated amperage to be able to charge at the indicated speed , 20 minutes for 400km which is probably 350kW based.

Dont be at yourself

Porsche are one of the marques behind Ionity though, right? I imagine the chargers and cars will ultimately be designed in tandem.

ELM327

They are *one of*, yes.
But even if the Ionity ones match exactly what it needs, are they going to be ubiquitous enough that the other networks dont matter?

ELM327

350kW at 800v is 437.5a.
Higher amperage than the current Tesla infrastructure.
Must do some diggiong and see what the Ionity spec is

KCross

IrishHomer wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/all-electric-porsche-to-travel-400km-on-20-minute-charge-1.3709875

The CEO is very complementary of Musk and Tesla...

Mr Blume said he has the “highest respect” for Tesla’s chief executive Elon Musk for creating a new segment within the industry.

That would suggest that Tesla is driving the EV industry forward with everyone else being dragged.

Dont be at yourself wrote: »

Porsche are one of the marques behind Ionity though, right? I imagine the chargers and cars will ultimately be designed in tandem.

Ionity will supposedly support the 800V implementation.

ELM327

Seems to support it alright:

"voltage of 900 volts and an amplitude of 500 amperes for a charge rate of 450 kW."
from:
https://electrek.co/2017/12/05/bmw-porsche-electric-car-charging-450-kw-charge-rate/

ted1

KCross wrote: »

The CEO is very complementary of Musk and Tesla...

Mr Blume said he has the “highest respect” for Tesla’s chief executive Elon Musk for creating a new segment within the industry.

That would suggest that Tesla is driving the EV industry forward with everyone else being dragged.




Ionity will supposedly support the 800V implementation.

Oh dear. I know one poster here who won’t like to hear that.

creedp

ELM327 wrote: »

Pretty useless currently as no chargers support 800v bar a couple of test ones in Germany.
The max it could take is 500v*125a in Ireland. When Ionity comes out on a wider scale it could take more, but it illustrates a different need. The need to measure the car's DC capability and the speed of the charger unit in Volts and Amps as opposed to kW.

EG: 100kW can be 100a by 1000v or 800a by 125v, or anything in between (eg ~320a, ~320v like the Tesla Superchargers for instance)

The porsche above could take 80kW, 50kW, and 120kW at the above speeds. It would need a charger spec exactly matching 800v and the max rated amperage to be able to charge at the indicated speed , 20 minutes for 400km which is probably 350kW based.

Doesn't really matter as most charging will be done at home or at work @7 kw/h!!

ELM327

creedp wrote: »

Doesn't really matter as most charging will be done at home or at work @7 kw/h!!

7kW*


But I digress.
Fast charging is the construct with which one reassures Joe Motorist that he can buy an EV and not lose any functionality that he has now. Telling him an EV will take 12-14 hours at 7kW to fill up is not palatable.
10 minutes is where it's at, even if that's only 20-75% or something

7.4 kWh/h.

Wonder if we will see the first of these much promised Ionity chargers here in Ireland before the end of the year? Much promised, but not delivered on time. Bit like everything regarding EVs it seems.

ELM327

samih wrote: »

7.4 kWh/h.

Wonder if we will see the first of these much promised Ionity chargers here in Ireland before the end of the year? Much promised, but not delivered on time. Bit like everything regarding EVs it seems.

This is not a unit.


7.4kW is the gross charging speed, dropping to probably ~7kW net after charging losses.


Other cars like the leaf have only 6.6kW onboard chargers so will be slower again.


On a car with >100kWh battery, 7kW or 7.4kW is pathetic.

liamog

Home three phase power is quite common on the continent, so I suspect we'll see alot of the European manufacturers install 11kW (3x16Ax230V) on board chargers.
If the on-board charger is 90% efficent then your battery can charge at approx 10kW. Overnight that's 80kWh or probably about 2/3 of the battery or 260km of range if the range is 400km from a 120kWh battery.

That's going to be grand for most people, plus the ability to add 300km of range in around 15 mins via a 350kW charger and I think your good.
I'm less fussed about three phase charging, as it's very rare in Irish households so most people will only be charging overnight from a 7.4kW supply which is 6.6kW after inefficencies. 53kWh still gives you approx. 180km added back overnight.

Dardania

liamog wrote: »

Home three phase power is quite common on the continent, so I suspect we'll see alot of the European manufacturers install 11kW (3x16Ax230V) on board chargers.
If the on-board charger is 90% efficent then your battery can charge at approx 10kW. Overnight that's 80kWh or probably about 2/3 of the battery or 260km of range if the range is 400km from a 120kWh battery.

That's going to be grand for most people, plus the ability to add 300km of range in around 15 mins via a 350kW charger and I think your good.
I'm less fussed about three phase charging, as it's very rare in Irish households so most people will only be charging overnight from a 7.4kW supply which is 6.6kW after inefficencies. 53kWh still gives you approx. 180km added back overnight.

True that - usually people won't drain completely each day so there will always be residual charge.

ELM327

Dardania wrote: »

True that - usually people won't drain completely each day so there will always be residual charge.

Yes but try telling the public that they can plug their car in for 10 hours overnight and it still won't be fully charged.

Dardania

ELM327 wrote: »

Yes but try telling the public that they can plug their car in for 10 hours overnight and it still won't be fully charged.

"It's like sticking 20 euros of petrol into the tank"!

ELM327

ELM327 wrote: »

This is not a unit.

That's why I eloquenty crossed over the redundant h's. It's not very legible.

ELM327

Dardania wrote: »

"It's like sticking 20 euros of petrol into the tank"!

Yes but no one does that, certainly not anyone who is going to spend 20-30k on a car.

Sticking €20 of petrol/diesel into a car would have done probably 1.5-2 days commute for me! And then you have to burn more fuel to drive to the station again. If you're trying to attract the person who spends €500 on a car and can't afford to drive it or tax it beyond putting €20 in and praying it lasts the week, I don't think that socioeconomic area is going to get car finance approved for say 26k on a new Ioniq. Let alone for a Porsche EV!

The target audience for this car is probably the buyers of GT cars like Aston Martins.

samih wrote: »

That's why I eloquenty crossed over the redundant h's. It's not very legible.

Fair. Didn't even notice the crossed out parts until you pointed it out.

ELM327

ELM327 wrote: »

Yes but try telling the public that they can plug their car in for 10 hours overnight and it still won't be fully charged.

Single phase 32 A is not very compatible for most of the markets anyway and it's bad for the electricity networks also. Many houses have 3 x 25 A supply in Europe so 11 kW 3 x 16 A is a much better charger in most places. And then 22 kW 3 x 32 A for the minted Porsche customers that can afford the improved supply.

KCross

For the vast vast majority of people it will make no difference whether they have 3 phase or not. They simply dont need it and/or the cars they have wont be capable of taking it.

For the purpose of this thread, anyone buying the Taycan will probably have 3 phase because their filthy rich to begin with and probably have 3 phase already to heat their swimming pool! If they dont they will simply pay ESB Networks the thousands required to get it in. It will be pocket change.

For everyone else, single phase 7kW is where its at for the foreseeable future and its more than enough even for a 2 EV house where load sharing and load limiting can be employed to ensure both cars are fully charged each day.

Adding 150-200 km of range per night is sufficient for most of the people alright. Especially as the cars like Taycan that probably won't be the daily driver for a high mile user. Plenty of time for the car to charge fully over the week for that weekend blast.

ELM327

samih wrote: »

Single phase 32 A is not very compatible for most of the markets anyway and it's bad for the electricity networks also. Many houses have 3 x 25 A supply in Europe so 11 kW 3 x 16 A is a much better charger in most places. And then 22 kW 3 x 32 A for the minted Porsche customers that can afford the improved supply.

Yes our network is infinitely better than the US domestic network which is predominantly single phase 120v but is infinitely worse than the central europe (Germany especially) one, where 3 phase is readily available.


Most new larger battery EVs are going to come with 3 phase and some will have 3 phase 400v support (32a * 3phn)... and in this backwater rock we will all charge on single phase.

KCross

samih wrote: »

Adding 150-200 km of range per night is sufficient for most of the people alright.

Indeed and night rate on single phase will give you alot more than 200km per night if you need it.

Lets say you have a 7.4kW charger in the car, which seems to be whats being provided now, you will get ~7kW to the battery after losses.

Thats 63kWh over the 9hr night rate
Lets say 13kWh/100km while driving gives you 484km per night that can be given to one car or shared across two.

If you need more every now and again for a long trip, you simply start the charge session earlier and suffer an hour or two of day rate electricity, it wont amount to much in the greater scheme of things.

PaulKK

Anyone think that more of the electricity network will be upgraded to three phase, or the cost of three oahse installation reduced in the future?

Surely in 20 years time when all cars in a house would be electric and there may be 2/3+ cars charging per night we would need more than 7kw available?

Most people say you only need 100km a day but I think people will really adopt evs when the range is 500km+.

At that point charging up for 10 hours to give 120km range isn't going to cut it.

ted1

PaulKK wrote: »

Anyone think that more of the electricity network will be upgraded to three phase, or the cost of three oahse installation reduced in the future?

Surely in 20 years time when all cars in a house would be electric and there may be 2/3+ cars charging per night we would need more than 7kw available?

Most people say you only need 100km a day but I think people will really adopt evs when the range is 500km+.

At that point charging up for 10 hours to give 120km range isn't going to cut it.

There’s 19bn bring spent on the network. Three phase isn’t planned for residential. Kerbside Traffos will be upgraded.

unkel

PaulKK wrote: »

Most people say you only need 100km a day but I think people will really adopt evs when the range is 500km+

Do you know anyone that does 500km a day? That's over 180k km per year, or more than 10 times the Irish average mileage

But yes I agree as we move away from fossil fuels altogether (for our homes and our cars) we will use a lot more electricity in future and 63A (14kW) maximum is not going to cut it.

liamog

unkel wrote: »

Do you know anyone that does 500km a day? That's over 180k km per year, or more than 10 times the Irish average mileage

But yes I agree as we move away from fossil fuels altogether (for our homes and our cars) we will use a lot more electricity in future and 63A (14kW) maximum is not going to cut it.

That 63A turns into a daily import of 347kW, local battery storage plus a solar array means the average home probably won't need a connection upgrade.

CDBWhoop

It's also very likely that those buying the Taycan will have access to charging at work. Can't see it being much of an issue.

PaulKK

unkel wrote: »

Do you know anyone that does 500km a day? That's over 180k km per year, or more than 10 times the Irish average mileage

But yes I agree as we move away from fossil fuels altogether (for our homes and our cars) we will use a lot more electricity in future and 63A (14kW) maximum is not going to cut it.

It's not about doing 500km a day. It's about being able to if you wanted/needed to, and also not having to charge at both ends of your journey or even daily.

It's one of the real reasons people aren't adopting evs quicker.

How many people do we see saying they'd buy a plug in hybrid if it had 100km range? The reason is they accept that 100km would be plenty most days but they have the engine there for when it isn't enough.

Ultimately people don't want to have to plan journeys around charging, even if it's a trip across the country or wherever that they only do once a month or less.

Until we get to a stage where realistically you could head away for a weekend and get back home on a single charge, mass adoption is not going to occur.

The only stage where that might be acceptable is of chargers are as prolific as petrol stations, and even then I think it would be a hard sell.

I see people talking about doing journeys here from time to time where they need to charge 2+ times in each direction. That's really enthusiast level stuff.

My car will do 1250km on a tank of diesel and I don't need to think about fueling it for a couple of weeks at a time. I think we are a long way off that for electric cars, but even a third of that range in a mainstream car might just persuade most to go electric.

At the point where that occurs, the infrastructure would need to support charging much larger capacity batteries.

liamog

PaulKK wrote: »

It's not about doing 500km a day. It's about being able to if you wanted/needed to, and also not having to charge at both ends of your journey or even daily.

It's one of the real reasons people aren't adopting evs quicker.

The latest escalation in excuses why EVs won't catch on.
When you're looking at 1/10 of the fuel cost to run an EV compared to an ICE most people are willing to compromise, after living with a 400km range vehicle you realise that the compromise you made wasn't really a compromise, and that you do not miss the bother of having to go out of your way to a fuel station every week or so.

PaulKK

liamog wrote: »

The latest escalation in excuses why EVs won't catch on.
When you're looking at 1/10 of the fuel cost to run an EV compared to an ICE most people are willing to compromise, after living with a 400km range vehicle you realise that the compromise you made wasn't really a compromise, and that you do not miss the bother of having to go out of your way to a fuel station every week or so.

On the ecars site it states that 400km per week would cost just over €5 on a leaf per week and just under €32 per week in a diesel car.

That's roughly 6 times more expensive and is based on night rate electricity. If you do not have a night rate meter or cannot charge at night I would guess it becomes €10 euro to charge the leaf or 3 times more expensive for the diesel.

I'm all for electric cars but we need some balanced realisim here.

ELM327

PaulKK wrote: »

On the ecars site it states that 400km per week would cost just over €5 on a leaf per week and just under €32 per week in a diesel car.

That's roughly 6 times more expensive and is based on night rate electricity. If you do not have a night rate meter or cannot charge at night I would guess it becomes €10 euro to charge the leaf or 3 times more expensive for the diesel.

I'm all for electric cars but we need some balanced realisim here.

It does not cost 10 euro to charge a leaf. That's ridiculous.
Such nonsense being peddled by the naysayers.


To charge a leaf on day rate costs the number of kWh (24/30/40) by the day rate ~17c/kWh.
So it would cost €4, €5 or €6.80 respectively. And that's from absolutely empty to absolutely full, which the car will not let you access, so you can multiply those charges by 0.95 to allow for bms rounding.

ELM327

PaulKK wrote: »

It's not about doing 500km a day. It's about being able to if you wanted/needed to, and also not having to charge at both ends of your journey or even daily.

It's one of the real reasons people aren't adopting evs quicker.

How many people do we see saying they'd buy a plug in hybrid if it had 100km range? The reason is they accept that 100km would be plenty most days but they have the engine there for when it isn't enough.

Ultimately people don't want to have to plan journeys around charging, even if it's a trip across the country or wherever that they only do once a month or less.

Until we get to a stage where realistically you could head away for a weekend and get back home on a single charge, mass adoption is not going to occur.

The only stage where that might be acceptable is of chargers are as prolific as petrol stations, and even then I think it would be a hard sell.

I see people talking about doing journeys here from time to time where they need to charge 2+ times in each direction. That's really enthusiast level stuff.

My car will do 1250km on a tank of diesel and I don't need to think about fueling it for a couple of weeks at a time. I think we are a long way off that for electric cars, but even a third of that range in a mainstream car might just persuade most to go electric.

At the point where that occurs, the infrastructure would need to support charging much larger capacity batteries.

Taking your fanciful 1250km * 0.33 gives 412.5, easily within the range of the Kona EV.


What diesel car do you have that gives a range of 1250km? Year, make, model and engine size please so we can fact check for accuracy.

PaulKK

ELM327 wrote: »

Taking your fanciful 1250km * 0.33 gives 412.5, easily within the range of the Kona EV.


What diesel car do you have that gives a range of 1250km? Year, make, model and engine size please so we can fact check for accuracy.

Sure. 2011 320d efficient dynamics. What's fanciful about it? It's got a 65L tank. To convert to mpg for you, it's 776 miles for 14.32 gallons. Which is just under 54mpg.

I've easily gotten 58+ out of it being semi careful and driving at 'leaf speed' or similar I regularly see 60mpg.

What's so hard to believe?

PaulKK

ELM327 wrote: »

It does not cost 10 euro to charge a leaf. That's ridiculous.
Such nonsense being peddled by the naysayers.


To charge a leaf on day rate costs the number of kWh (24/30/40) by the day rate ~17c/kWh.
So it would cost €4, €5 or €6.80 respectively. And that's from absolutely empty to absolutely full, which the car will not let you access, so you can multiply those charges by 0.95 to allow for bms rounding.

It's not nonsense. The cost was to do 400km. Not a single charge. Liaomog said the cost to fuel an electric car was 1/10 that of an ICE car. I was simply saying that is not true.

ELM327

PaulKK wrote: »

It's not nonsense. The cost was to do 400km. Not a single charge. Liaomog said the cost to fuel an electric car was 1/10 that of an ICE car. I was simply saying that is not true.

To do 400km in my EV costs about €4 on night rate.
You can do it on day rate if you want to make it more expensive (why people wouldnt have night rate anyway is beyond me, I had it before my EV) but it's still going to be comfortably under €10.

PaulKK wrote: »

Sure. 2011 320d efficient dynamics. What's fanciful about it? It's got a 65L tank. To convert to mpg for you, it's 776 miles for 14.32 gallons. Which is just under 54mpg.

I've easily gotten 58+ out of it being semi careful and driving at 'leaf speed' or similar I regularly see 60mpg.

What's so hard to believe?

So to do your 1250km you have to not only go into the red, but you have to fully drain the tank to empty? That's why it's fanciful, no one will do that. It's the same as expecting that you will arrive home with 0% in your EV and charge to 100%. Most people arrive with 10-15+% remaining, like most people fill up just before or just after the fuel light comes on in a fossil car. In most of my cars there was between 1 and 2 gallons left at that point plus the fuel in the lines.

Mooooo

PaulKK wrote: »

Anyone think that more of the electricity network will be upgraded to three phase, or the cost of three oahse installation reduced in the future?

Surely in 20 years time when all cars in a house would be electric and there may be 2/3+ cars charging per night we would need more than 7kw available?

Most people say you only need 100km a day but I think people will really adopt evs when the range is 500km+.

At that point charging up for 10 hours to give 120km range isn't going to cut it.

You could ring esb networks for a quote, depends on proximity to the line. Got it in here and line is just passing below the yard approx 80 yards and it cost 2.5k. Was talking to another lad , not sure of the distance bit was given a quote of 40k, and told if more people came on the line to his place he may get money back. Needless to say he didn't go for it

PaulKK

ELM327 wrote: »

To do 400km in my EV costs about €4 on night rate.
You can do it on day rate if you want to make it more expensive (why people wouldnt have night rate anyway is beyond me, I had it before my EV) but it's still going to be comfortably under €10.

The point I was disputing was that an ev is not 10 times cheaper to fuel. Not exactly how much it costs.

ELM327 wrote: »

So to do your 1250km you have to not only go into the red, but you have to fully drain the tank to empty? That's why it's fanciful, no one will do that. It's the same as expecting that you will arrive home with 0% in your EV and charge to 100%. Most people arrive with 10-15+% remaining, like most people fill up just before or just after the fuel light comes on in a fossil car. In most of my cars there was between 1 and 2 gallons left at that point plus the fuel in the lines.

I don't even know why I'm bothering to reply, but your range argument surely applies to the electric car too.
In which case the 400km of the Kona etc isn't really 400km either, more like 350km? If the fuel light comes on with 5L left, the range in my car is still over 1100km.

The difference of course is that I can get that full 1250km back in under 5 mins in hundreds of different places all over the country.

I already said I would like an electric car, I think everyone should have one, I don't want my kids breathing in sh1tty diesel fumes. The point I wanted to make was that most non ev enthusiasts won't embrace EVs until they can easily do at least say 50% of the range of an ICE car.

ELM327

PaulKK wrote: »

The point I was disputing was that an ev is not 10 times cheaper to fuel. Not exactly how much it costs.




I don't even know why I'm bothering to reply, but your range argument surely applies to the electric car too.
In which case the 400km of the Kona etc isn't really 400km either, more like 350km? If the fuel light comes on with 5L left, the range in my car is still over 1100km.

The difference of course is that I can get that full 1250km back in under 5 mins in hundreds of different places all over the country.

I already said I would like an electric car, I think everyone should have one, I don't want my kids breathing in sh1tty diesel fumes. The point I wanted to make was that most non ev enthusiasts won't embrace EVs until they can easily do at least say 50% of the range of an ICE car.

I don't know why I'm bothering to reply either but the Kona is not 400km to 0 it's 450km+ to 0, 400km is easily doable, someone posted in the EV owners facebook group of somoene doing 431km mixed driving including motorway with a good few km to spare


(PS: It will take a bit longer than 5 mins to refuel a fossil car, assuming you have to go in and pay too)


Regardiung the 10x argument, in the real world people have a blend of home charging (night rate), free public charging and possibly free work charging.

liamog

PaulKK wrote: »

It's not nonsense. The cost was to do 400km. Not a single charge. Liaomog said the cost to fuel an electric car was 1/10 that of an ICE car. I was simply saying that is not true.

We went from a Fiat Grande Punto that used approx 9l/100km to an Ioniq that does uses approx 14kWh/100km.
@144.9c/l the 100km would cost us €13, our electricity from Energia is 8c/kWh. Allowing for 90% efficency we need 15.5kWh to charge per 100km which costs us €1.24.
So for us, we've gone from €13 to €1.24 per 100km. We've just hit 40,000km on the Ioniq giving us a fuel saving of €4,700 in the 22 months we've had it.

Obviousley every scenario will be different, but I can only speak to my own experience.

unkel

PaulKK wrote: »

The point I was disputing was that an ev is not 10 times cheaper to fuel. Not exactly how much it costs.

About 10 times cheaper is about right. If you charge at home at the night rate. A night rate meter is completely free of charge to have installed

Of course if you charge the EV for free in work or for free on the public network or on the ever increasing privately installed free charge points it is far cheaper than 10 times cheaper

liamog

Between our first 9 months without a home charger, and using the public network for longer journeys we probably did 20,000km without paying at all.
The McDonalds in Blanch ate into any savings from not paying the €1.24 for the leccy.

KCross

PaulKK wrote: »

Anyone think that more of the electricity network will be upgraded to three phase, or the cost of three oahse installation reduced in the future?

No, too expensive with little gain.
The regulator could request the price be dropped but it would still be expensive depending on how far the nearest 3 phase feed is from your house.... could be right outside your house or could be miles away... thats the crux of the issue.

PaulKK wrote: »

Surely in 20 years time when all cars in a house would be electric and there may be 2/3+ cars charging per night we would need more than 7kw available?

You have more than 7kW available as it is.
Every house has at least 14kW. You can pay an extra €1158 and ESB Networks will give you 18kW on your existing lines (assuming your house wiring is up to the job).

If you have two cars you use load balancing and load limiting within the confines of the supply you have.

So, lets say you have the standard 14kW connection, which is a 60A fuse, you simply limit the available current to the 2 cars to 50A (the charge point does that for you) and then the two cars charge at 25A each. When one finishes the other can bump up its feed to its 32A max.

50A over 9hrs is 100kWh's every day. A tiny tiny minority of people will need that amount of range every day, even across 2 cars.

All achievable with your current supply. No need for 3 phase.

3 phase is most useful for running motors and compressors which need high current during startup. Thats why its primarily only used in commercial settings. Its not really needed in most domestic environments.

PaulKK wrote: »

At that point charging up for 10 hours to give 120km range isn't going to cut it.

Not sure where you get the 10hrs for 120km from? Its not reality anyway unless you are charging from a 3 pin socket.

PaulKK

KCross wrote: »

No, too expensive with little gain.
The regulator could request the price be dropped but it would still be expensive depending on how far the nearest 3 phase feed is from your house.... could be right outside your house or could be miles away... thats the crux of the issue.




You have more than 7kW available as it is.
Every house has at least 14kW. You can pay an extra €1158 and ESB Networks will give you 18kW on your existing lines (assuming your house wiring is up to the job).

If you have two cars you use load balancing and load limiting within the confines of the supply you have.

So, lets say you have the standard 14kW connection, which is a 60A fuse, you simply limit the available current to the 2 cars to 50A (the charge point does that for you) and then the two cars charge at 25A each. When one finishes the other can bump up its feed to its 32A max.

50A over 9hrs is 100kWh's every day. A tiny tiny minority of people will need that amount of range every day, even across 2 cars.

All achievable with your current supply. No need for 3 phase.

3 phase is most useful for running motors and compressors which need high current during startup. Thats why its primarily only used in commercial settings. Its not really needed in most domestic environments.




Not sure where you get the 10hrs for 120km from? Its not reality anyway unless you are charging from a 3 pin socket.

Thanks, this explains things well. With 18kw things would be manageable even with higher capacity batteries.

Mike9832

ELM327 wrote: »

Yes but no one does that, certainly not anyone who is going to spend 20-30k on a car.

Sticking €20 of petrol/diesel into a car would have done probably 1.5-2 days commute for me! And then you have to burn more fuel to drive to the station again. If you're trying to attract the person who spends €500 on a car and can't afford to drive it or tax it beyond putting €20 in and praying it lasts the week, I don't think that socioeconomic area is going to get car finance approved for say 26k on a new Ioniq

Go to any forecourt in the country and you will find its very common for people to put €20 petrol/diesel in the tank

People with alot more money than you do it regularly, not your bum type stereotype your suggesting,

To say people that have a habit of doing it can't afford an Ioniq on credit is laughable

Your post reeks of snobbery, going on about socio-economic areas because someone one puts €20 petrol in the tank.

Mike9832

liamog wrote: »

We went from a Fiat Grande Punto that used approx 9l/100km to an Ioniq that does uses approx 14kWh/100km.
@144.9c/l the 100km would cost us €13, our electricity from Energia is 8c/kWh. Allowing for 90% efficency we need 15.5kWh to charge per 100km which costs us €1.24.
So for us, we've gone from €13 to €1.24 per 100km. We've just hit 40,000km on the Ioniq giving us a fuel saving of €4,700 in the 22 months we've had it.

Obviousley every scenario will be different, but I can only speak to my own experience.

Savings are incredible alright when comparing like for like eg new Ioniq vs new i30 or similar

What was your cost to change btw?

Interest on car loan if you have one? Total cost etc