front light

Amprodude

just wondering are you supposed to have your front light flashing or just at ON when cycling? does a flashing front light annoy motorists? In my opinion I would find that a flasher will be quicker to spot on the road than a front light. Told by a cyclist one day that a front flasher annoys motorists. opinions?

punisher5112

Amprodude wrote: »

just wondering are u supposed to have your front light flashing or just on when cycling? does a flashing front light annoy motorists? In my opinion I would find that a flasher will be quicker to spot on the road than a front light.

It's ilegal but doesn't stop people doing so.

Get a good bright light and angle it correctly.

One on your helmet would be a great extra to have and stand out more.

Alanstrainor

A poorly aligned and bright flashing light can be annoying for everyone. That is a light that is pointed too far upwards and or poorly focused. For me I have both a flash and a constant. Once they are lined up correctly I wouldn't worry about annoying others, the flashing certainly makes you stand out in an urban environment imo.

Beasty

punisher5112 wrote: »

It's ilegal but doesn't stop people doing so.

Thought they had changed that a few years back

Having said that I ride unlit roads and always have mine steady.

punisher5112

There are a few going around with lights brighter then those from a ufo and the strobe function is so dangerous to the point especially in rain you can't see anything in front or past the cyclist....

punisher5112

Beasty wrote: »

Thought they had changed that a few years back

Having said that I ride unlit roads and always have mine steady.

I wasn't aware but if I'm wrong I apologise.

I haven't any issues at all once they are not pointing upwards and are like a 1,000,000 lumen or something like a good few are going around with.

I believe the rear is the most important to stand out either way.

silverharp

i find them irritating if someone with a bright one cycles the opposite way on a path, at the same time for my own safety i point mine up, too many plonkers turning on to main roads who cant seem to see a pointed down or straight beam

AndrewJRenko

Generally what annoys motorists is the fact that they actually noticed the cyclist.

It's their problem. The main purpose of the light is to get noticed.

Amprodude

the way I see it there are many assh_les on the road driving that are dangerous and for my safety I would rather be noticed than be irritating motorists because my light is annoying them. my safety first. my light is 500 lumens it's enough to be seen but not enough to absolute blind someone. That's what I said to the person that said it to me about the flasher. Mighy sound like I'm selfish but life is precious and I don't want to be killed because someone didn't see me.

MojoMaker

Are you riding with a 500lm light in the city?

Amprodude

MojoMaker wrote: »

Are you riding with a 500lm light in the city?

country roads.

tomasrojo

Flashing lights are legal. They didn't use to be, but they are now.

It's in the Legislation thread. I'll have a quick look.

EDIT:
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=88738845&postcount=25

tomasrojo

I assume that if you have a less powerful light it's better to be on flash. If you have a powerful headlight, it's probably overkill for it to be flashing, though if you angle it down a good bit, it's not going to dazzle others.

AndrewJRenko

Amprodude wrote: »

country roads.

Take me home.

magicbastarder

i have two lights on the front, one flashing, one not.
i have a notion in my head that it's harder to gauge distance with a flashing light.

ED E

Lads with MTB setups on their head who don't dim are the worst.

My rear is a slow pulse aimed down so the whole rear wheel and road surface is red. Like a wingtip of a 747. Front is solid on but aimed ~5m ahead of me as a pothole spotter. The side glare from it is still visible 80m off no problem.

magicbastarder

magicbastarder wrote: »

i have two lights on the front, one flashing, one not.
i have a notion in my head that it's harder to gauge distance with a flashing light.

actually, i should point out that the reason i have two lights in the first place is probably more to do with redundancy.

tomasrojo

I remember the argument that it was harder for drivers to judge distance with flashing lights, and that tired and drunk drivers had a tendency to start drifting towards flashing lights.


On the first, there's this:
https://nextcity.org/daily/entry/bicycle-lights-too-bright-blinking-problems
On the second, there's this:
http://www.visualexpert.com/Resources/motheffect.html

I don't use flashing. I used to for a while, then stopped, then started again, then stopped again. Appropriately enough.

tomasrojo

I suspect both effects are pretty irrelevant for cyclists in the city, and possibly elsewhere.

tomasrojo

I should say I have no basis for my last post! So if you believe either of these things, go right ahead believing them.

Thinkingaboutit

Two steady usb recharged lights and one simply battery operated flashing light on front. Wary these days, and do at times go through unlit or poorly lit places.

Wishbone Ash

Amprodude wrote: »

... I would rather be noticed than be irritating motorists because my light is annoying them. my safety first....

I'd rather be noticed and not irritate motorists. It could compromise your safety.

Many of the cheap lights available nowadays throw loads of light in every direction. Most of it is simply wasted lighting up overhead trees and the sides of the road. German regulations are very strict regarding bicycle lights and their lights are designed to throw a focused beam which does not distract/annoy motorists. Flashing lights are illegal there.

I have a couple of these:

https://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/trelock-ls-950-control-ion-front-light-40233

ted1

Amprodude wrote: »

just wondering are you supposed to have your front light flashing or just at ON when cycling? does a flashing front light annoy motorists? In my opinion I would find that a flasher will be quicker to spot on the road than a front light. Told by a cyclist one day that a front flasher annoys motorists. opinions?

Flashing is banned in Germany as it attracts drunk drivers. And can cause issues fir people with epilepsy

magicbastarder

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Many of the cheap lights available nowadays throw loads of light in every direction.

that's one of the reasons i use one of the aldi rechargeable ones on the rear, but not the front (even though i bought one for the front); my front lights are far more directional than the aldi one, which i have on what i think is its lowest brightness setting (but flashing)

at1withmyself

silverharp wrote: »

i find them irritating if someone with a bright one cycles the opposite way on a path, at the same time for my own safety i point mine up

Posts like this make me sad...

a148pro

I think flashing is good for motorists to see you where you're coming down their inside. I always fear some clown will get annoyed in their lane and decide to suddenly change tack and pull into you, flashing light makes this less likely I think.

buffalo

magicbastarder wrote: »

i have two lights on the front, one flashing, one not.
i have a notion in my head that it's harder to gauge distance with a flashing light.

I use flashing in heavy car traffic, steady at all other times.

When I'm approaching any 'known' blackspots, I will angle it up more to ensure I can definitely be seen and hopefully attract attention in a wing mirror or at a quick glance. Though as with everything, if drivers don't look for you, they won't see you no matter how bright/flashy your light.

5uspect

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I'd rather be noticed and not irritate motorists. It could compromise your safety.

Many of the cheap lights available nowadays throw loads of light in every direction. Most of it is simply wasted lighting up overhead trees and the sides of the road. German regulations are very strict regarding bicycle lights and their lights are designed to throw a focused beam which does not distract/annoy motorists. Flashing lights are illegal there.

I have a couple of these:

https://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/trelock-ls-950-control-ion-front-light-40233

I have one of these:
https://www.bikelightdatabase.com/busch-muller/ixoncoreflash/

Not a bad comparison website, actually.

Chips Lovell

Flashing is alright, only a bit more distracting that steady. The worst is strobe, particularly if the light isn't angled down.

triggermortis

I have the same trelock light as WA as well as a cateye 400 lumen light that I sometimes use in flashing mode. I'm travelling to work these days just as its getting dark and I find the flashing light annoying (to me) on unlit parts of my ride so switch between flashing and solid on. I tend to set it to flash once I'm around traffic - usually after Blakes X, going towards Swords

ford2600

The lighting of vehicle regulations probably need an update, with regard to all vehicle types such has been the change in technology over last 10 years or so. Won't be worth much with some Garda training and enforcement.

With cars even dipped lights on a lot of newer cars, whether due to focus, diffuser or power can be blinding. The one eyed bandit is as common as ever; a change in law making spare bulbs compulsory and the fitting simple (Renault I looking at you) would be a start.


A cut and paste of German Stvo laws wouldn't be a bad start with bikes.


You don't need a lot of power to see very well. I have a dynamo light with a 100 lux output, which probably has less than 300 lumens but it's a brilliant light to use. Its beam isn't unlike WA's Trelock 950 which I've also used or the other linked B&M light. Too much light power spread everywhere will cause reflection(from cables, signs etc, which causes your eye aperture to narrow meaning you see less...

Old thread here on rear lights
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=93376592&postcount=61

coL

Speaking as a motorist and cyclist its not the flashing that annoys me rather than the brightness.

Light technology has come on in leaps and bounds in recent years and what a lot of people don't seem to realise is that most lights nowadays have different settings. Some lights will have a specific daytime setting that is extraordinarily bright and should only be used during the day. Unfortunately there appears to be a subset that think the brighter the better when it comes to lights and whack it on to the brightest setting regardless of where they are or what time of the day it is. Its not only annoying to motorists but cyclists/pedestrians as well. I read a thread about legislation regarding the permitted brightness of lights on bikes and whether or not a light could flash, I think it was German legislation and I don't think there is an Irish equivalent (open to correction).

Of course the other thing to consider how is clever it is to dazzle something coming towards you at high speed like a car!!!

I think the key here is to look at the situations you are cycling and what kind of lights would be the most suitable. How would you feel cycling behind someone who has a massively bright light blinding you? Or as a pedestrian, a cyclist or a car coming towards you with what are effectively full beams on. You can achieve the objective of being seen and noticed without being a annoyance/nuisance/d@*khead to other road users (be they other cyclists, pedestrians or motorists).

I personally think that a rear light is more important for a cyclist so usually try to have a at least one good one and if possible a few different ones for the different situations I might be cycling in. For years the unit I used most was a Lezyne strip drive (https://www.lezyne.com/product-led-sport-striprear.php) which has different lighting settings. If I was cycling during the day I would put on the daytime flash and at night or in a group I would put on one of the lower settings (I always used the alternating flash if possible as I felt it made me more noticeable).

Recently I got the older version of the Garmin varia rear light (https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2015/10/garmin-varia-radar-review.html) I am lucky to have a compatible watch so didn't need to invest in a head unit and I find it great. Not only does it alert you to traffic coming up behind you but also adjusts its flash in line with its proximity and closing speed. The only problem is it only has one brightness setting.


My front light is a throwback to when I lived in a city and cycled primarily in built up and well lit areas (https://www.evanscycles.com/topeak-whitelite-dx-usb-front-light-EV162297). This light is exactly what you need in such circumstances particularly when you don't really need to road in front of you lit up to see potholes. This light should make you noticeable to pedestrians, other cyclists and even motorists without blinding or dazzling anyone and it also has a flashing function.

I have since moved to a rural area and am in the process of looking for something that will give me a bit more visibility and that brings me on to my views on front lights. There is nothing wrong with having a bright front light but like others have said it has to be angled correctly and due consideration given to other road users (not just motorists). You wouldn't like it if a pedestrian shone a bright light into you face when you were cycling towards them or if a motorists didn't dim their lights coming towards you so why do it to them. I will try to get the best and brightest light I can but I will also make use to install it and angle it correctly so that it lights the road ahead of me only to the extent that I need and doesn't dazzle others.

This post might seem like a rant (apologies if it does) but I think there are a few point to consider and that needed to be voiced when it comes to lights. Just going to finish with an example. When driving yesterday at 11am on a very good road with a decent margin there was a cyclist around 200/300 meters ahead of me. He had a rear light (a tiny one giving out very little light) but even with that he was very hard to make out and almost lost amongst the trees/hedges and other clutter along the side of the road (he was also all in black). This was an ideal example of when a rear light with a daytime flash mode is an ideal option and really brought home to me again the value of a good rear light.

magicbastarder

ford2600 wrote: »

a change in law making spare bulbs compulsory and the fitting simple (Renault I looking at you) would be a start.

this is one thing i can't understand. in my car, a skoda, it's less than a five minute process.
my friend, who drives a megane, when he opted to pay for the bulb fitting process in halfords, was told by the chap there that he'd helped cows give birth and that was easier than fitting a new bulb in the megane.

ford2600

magicbastarder wrote: »

this is one thing i can't understand. in my car, a skoda, it's less than a five minute process.
my friend, who drives a megane, when he opted to pay for the bulb fitting process in halfords, was told by the chap there that he'd helped cows give birth and that was easier than fitting a new bulb in the megane.

I never changed a Megane bulb myself, it was my mechanic who was giving out. Although it doesn't look too bad here, if a little too confined. It would require someone to read manual though, which a lot don't/won't do

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVM401TKu-g

The bulb changing on a Mark 2 Octavia estate (and I presume all models) was the simplest in any car I've owned; one plastic nut and a simple lever and lamp is in your hand with a nice long loom. 5 mins if you are having a cup of tea as well :pac:

Recently changed a bulb, in Chainreaction car park as it happens, of a C220 and it was pleasantly simple with loads of room.

magicbastarder

this is the older megane - where you've to go through the inside of the wheel arch to change the bulb:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXCZ2v-nIF4

ford2600

magicbastarder wrote: »

this is the older megane - where you've to go through the inside of the wheel arch to change the bulb:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXCZ2v-nIF4

That explains it, no wonder Pat was giving it out.

If the car wasn't the most in demand car in scrap dealers for years (owing to the demand for its parts) one might think is was accountancy driven conspiracy rather than design incompetence :pac:

Macy0161

coL wrote: »

Unfortunately there appears to be a subset that think the brighter the better when it comes to lights and whack it on to the brightest setting regardless of where they are or what time of the day it is.

The RSA and Gardai constantly push "Be Safe Be Seen". I don't think over bright lights are a deliberately ignorant move, more in response to the constant road safety messages people are subjected too. We don't have a standard like the German one, so people are (wrongly) assuming brighter is better.

jethrothe2nd

I'm using a Cateye Volt 800 as a front light as for the most, I am cycling on unlit country roads. In general I use the 400 lumen output with the pulse 'pulsating' at 800 lumen (angled downwards). I'm generally cycling in dusk rather than in total darkness. I've always wondered if drivers find the pulse annoying or whether it actually makes me more visible. Up to reading this thread I have gone with it making me more visible over it being annoying but now I am beginning to wonder whether it is just as effective with the steady beam.

cdaly_

I run a steady beam only (dynamo setup with a proper German spec light). I find oncoming cars waiting for the 'motorbike' on narrow country roads.

I also find it irritating when I'm being followed by a flashing strobe wielding cyclist.

hesker

jethrothe2nd wrote: »

I'm using a Cateye Volt 800 as a front light as for the most, I am cycling on unlit country roads. In general I use the 400 lumen output with the pulse 'pulsating' at 800 lumen (angled downwards). I'm generally cycling in dusk rather than in total darkness. I've always wondered if drivers find the pulse annoying or whether it actually makes me more visible. Up to reading this thread I have gone with it making me more visible over it being annoying but now I am beginning to wonder whether it is just as effective with the steady beam.

I have the same light with mix of city and country cycling. I’ve stopped using the pulse 400 mode after complaints from two pedestrians and a cyclist. Now use 400 lumen constant with light pointing at ground about 10-20 feet in front of me.
Received a bit of a muffled comment about a bright light from a cyclist coming the other way last night but hard to be sure.

I’ve seen a few of those motorbike type lights recently and they are bloody brilliant. Loads of light with little glare.

CramCycle

Alanstrainor wrote: »

A poorly aligned and bright flashing light can be annoying for everyone. That is a light that is pointed too far upwards and or poorly focused. For me I have both a flash and a constant. Once they are lined up correctly I wouldn't worry about annoying others, the flashing certainly makes you stand out in an urban environment imo.

There was a guy on my commute, who had what I perceived as an 800Lumen light pointing up that you could see boards on the N11 lit up with his light alone from a km away. If you turned around to look it took the ability to see anything else behind you away. It was very annoying. Anyway, the third time, I said it to him, in a nice tone. he apologised and tilted it slightly down. Seen him loads of times since, no problems.

magicbastarder wrote: »

i have a notion in my head that it's harder to gauge distance with a flashing light.

There was a big debate about this here years ago. I think the same but I imagine it depends on the rate of blinking etc.

tomasrojo wrote: »

I remember the argument that it was harder for drivers to judge distance with flashing lights, and that tired and drunk drivers had a tendency to start drifting towards flashing lights.

Haven't read the articles but I remember there was a term for people who would see an objecto avoid, but become so fixated on avoiding it, that they actually drifted towards it. Bugging me I cannot think of the name for the phenomenon.

ted1 wrote: »

Flashing is banned in Germany as it attracts drunk drivers. And can cause issues fir people with epilepsy

I have never heard of flashing causing epilepsy but I imagine getting your kit out could attract drunks but be distracting to sober people as well :pac:

Baron de Charlus wrote: »

Flashing is alright.

Not in this weather.

Lumen

CramCycle wrote: »

I remember there was a term wfor people who would see an objectto avoid, but become so fixated on avoiding it, that they actually drifted towards it. Bugging me I cannot think of the name for the phenomenon

"Target fixation"

CramCycle

Lumen wrote: »

"Target fixation"

I thought there was a title like "Peters Principle" for people promoted above their capabilities. Disappointing that it is so explanatory, hard to sound like a know it all when it is obvious.

Flaccus

I have a Cateye Sync Core which is 500 lumen (tame by modern standards) but it has this hyper constant daylight flash mode which is basically always on with an irregular pulse. Very noticeable in the day especially in heavy traffic. I don't really cycle at night but it has high, medium and low constant beams as well as a regular flash if I did. I use a Cateye Rear Sync Kinetic light too which again has a daylight flash mode but also uses an accelerometer to flare up when you brake. So far I have found cars seem to give me a bit of extra room. Thinking about getting the Sync Wearable light for back of jersey. All the lights are bluetooth and controlled by the app or button on the front light. Gave up on ant+ lights ages ago....too unreliable.

tomasrojo

CramCycle wrote: »

I thought there was a title like "Peters Principle" for people promoted above their capabilities. Disappointing that it is so explanatory, hard to sound like a know it all when it is obvious.

Moth Effect was mentioned in the article I linked to.

tomasrojo

cdaly_ wrote: »

I also find it irritating when I'm being followed by a flashing strobe wielding cyclist.

It's really quite hard to see following traffic when you're looking behind you and your retinas are forced to ramp up and down a response curve several times a second.

beauf

A really bright flash or strobe blinds drivers and other cyclists. Many are obnoxious.
Some moron in the phoenix park (around 7) the other night with one.
On the cycle path where he didn't need it to flash, he should have had it on steady and pointed at the path.
They are more dazzling than a car full beam. The only response is full beam back, in the vain hope they will cope on.
It not just head on they are a problem from behind they hit the mirrors and blind you for a long time.

I have two lights on the front of my bike.
In town, one is on steady the other on a slow flash both aimed at the path ahead.
Once I hit the park or somewhere equally dark both are on constant and pointed at the road ahead.

incentsitive

Yeah as a motorist and cyclist I definitely prefer a flashing light, especially when turning right/left.
I have these for cycling around the city. https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01DP8QA8E/ref=pe_385721_37986871_TE_item it is perfectly strong enough.
There is nothing worse, as a car driver and a cyclist, than some lad who thinks his light has to be something fit for a lighthouse and pointing to blind everybody (oncoming cyclists and cars). For god sake face your light down a bit, you are putting others in danger as car drivers have to look away from it and might end up missing a cyclist in the process. Although its probably better than the black-jacketed hero with no lights
I haven't a clue what is needed for the countryside, but definitely err on the side of caution in a more rural part! But be careful where you point the light!