Violence

LegacyUser

I am in my mid 20s and have recently been in the early stages of dating someone (few months). Call him A. He did something recently that I am in two minds about.

On a night out while queuing for a nightclub a man behind him was 'annoying' him and his group of friends. The man was drunk and being a nuisance, untied A's shoelaces, poked him, pulled his shirt etc. A and his group told him where to go and he got more aggressive and shoved A. A grabbed him in a sort of choke hold by the neck and shook him, then pulled him out of the queue, let go of him on the street, and walked back into the queue. The man fell to the ground. There were guards nearby who took A's name and address and number, and told him they would be in touch.

A felt bad about it, and the next morning went into the station because he wanted to straighten it out. They told him nothing is going to happen. He says he's not violent at all but he didn't like a stranger touching him, which I can accept. I was not there and this is the version of the story that I have heard from him and the group he was with.

A would not know this, but I have had one four year relationship where I was hit, shoved, hair pulled, dragged, etc. This has thrown me and I think I need perspective on whether I am overreacting. I am hesitant to say anything to my own friends because I do like him and I don't want them to get a certain idea of him. One half of me thinks that if I were in a situation where a drunk man was shoving me I hope that I would not hesitate to defend myself. The other half of me is totally shaken by any type of violence and can't really process it impartially.

For my own sake I need to draw a line somewhere - but where? How do I know this was a once off, or a sign of things to come? Was the level of violence too much - the chokehold and shaking someone, then dragging them? I wasn't there and can't say for certain what happened.

For a few hours over the weekend I was quite upset with myself for allowing someone 'in' again only to find that they might be the same as my ex. Now I'm not sure if it's really that black and white, but I am also aware that I may be back to making excuses for him, like I have done before. This may be simple for some other people but it is a big deal to me and my head is swimming...

For what it's worth I think I'm quite observant about people and how they act because of my past relationship, and one of the first things that drew me to him was how kind he was to everyone. His friends hold him in very high regard as well and agreed that nothing like that had ever happened to them on a night out before.

Big Bag of Chips

Personally I think he showed great restraint. Yer man obviously wasn't getting the hint. How else would he be expected to get rid of him? The other person physically interfered with your bf. And continued to do so. He pulled at his clothes, put his hands on him and then started shoving. He was looking for a reaction and he got one. He should count himself lucky he didn't get a box. Another person would have hit him.

I understand your fear, but I think in this situation your bf did what needed to be done without actually assaulting anyone. He forcefully removed a person who was being aggressive towards him, and didn't actually hit him.

What do you think he could have done better?

Dial Hard

Has he shown *any* other behaviour that might be a potential red flag? I think if this is a completely out of the norm, one-off thing for him then you should give him the benefit of the doubt.

Bonniek

Totally agree with above. Your man was putting his hands on him. He handled it well and even went to the guards after.

Cockadoodledoo

I feel angry just reading what the other guy did not to mention how your boyfriend must have felt. I wouldn’t blame him for what he did tbh. What kind of idiot was the other guy at all!

OP, he was very much provoked and yes he reacted aggressively but I wouldn’t blame him. I think most would have reacted in that situation.

punisher5112

I've been on the receiving end like he was from people wanting to fight or messing with me etc etc.

There is only so much one can take.

I hate people fighting and don't like to be the one dishing it out but recently I had to to defend myself.

I punched the guy a number of times as he attacked me 1st from my side and it's all I could do to get him away.

I wouldn't let this ruin it as said above he had great patience to let him get away with so much.

joeguevara

Someone picking up for themselves when they are being started on is totally different from someone who is capable of domestic violence against their partner. It looks/sounds like A reacted in a reasonable way. However the big issue is that it has raised issues from your past which is also completely reasonable. Have you dealt and reconciled your past experiences completely and are you in a position to be in a relationship?

Do you feel close enough to A to discuss this. He obviously felt bad enough to go to the police station so seems like a good guy. Not everyone is the same as your ex. But you have to look after you. If you think that it is affecting you what he did you should talk it out and explain why you feel like this or finish it. Whatever happens it may be an idea to talk through your feelings with someone as unless fully resolved it may appear again and again.

osarusan

I don't think you can infer from that behaviour that he is more likely to be abusive in a relationship. I don't see a connection between the two.

matrim

Are you going to continuly provoke, poke, mess with this clothes, lay hands on and shove A for a period of time while being asked to stop? If yes, then dump him as you are abusive. If no, then from what you have said A isn't likely to hit you.

Dalomanakora

I think A handled himself beautifully to be honest. He was being repeatedly annoyed and provoked and he ended the situation pretty non-violently and then went to discuss with the police. Seems sensible to me tbh

padser

Honestly, most men have never had their details taken by the guards for violent behaviour.

I'm not for a minute suggesting that every person that has has this happen is going to be abusive, but I would imagine the intersection of
A) has come to the attention of the guards for violence
is abusive in domestic relationships
Is likely pretty large.

OP, you've obviously got a history of getting involved with (and from the sounds of it, staying with) abusive partners. Women that do that often repeat it again. If you have concerns it's happening to you again - it might be worth considering breaking the cycle.

Xterminator

Hi Op

your date handled himself admirably in a tense situation. I believe this should be a positive when considering if the relationship should go further, not a negative.

The situation was unsavory, and cant have made for the best 1st date material, but his actions were not. I understand that your history colours your feelings, but if you think about this objectively what do you think his behaviour should have been?

GingerLily

I think you need to talk to OP and explain your concerns.

It might be a once off, I'd probably give him the benefit of the doubt this time.

Maybe talk to him about how he can avoid conflict like this in the future? Could he have got a bouncer involved? Was it a particularly rough place he was trying to get into? Could his mates have helped him out a little? If he's not a violent person he'll want to avoid future situations like this.

I'm sorry your last relationship was abusive, well done for getting through that!

crusier

padser wrote:

Honestly, most men have never had their details taken by the guards for violent behaviour.

padser wrote:

I'm not for a minute suggesting that every person that has has this happen is going to be abusive, but I would imagine the intersection of A) has come to the attention of the guards for violence is abusive in domestic relationships Is likely pretty large.

padser wrote:

OP, you've obviously got a history of getting involved with (and from the sounds of it, staying with) abusive partners. Women that do that often repeat it again. If you have concerns it's happening to you again - it might be worth considering breaking the cycle.

Most men would react this way or in varying degrees to an asshole acting like this. I'm a Garda and I see plenty of decent people getting dragged into situations like this. This guy showed restraint and didn't strike him and I'm sure was annoyed he got dragged into the situation. I really think you should think long and hard before you let a potentially good relationship slip away. I've never mistreated my partner physically and never will, I may have pissed her off on occasion. I have to use force on occasion while on duty but that doesn't make me a potential wife beater. Don't let others posters tell you that you attract abusive partners, they don't know you.

woodchuck

I'm going to go against the majority of posters here and say that I would consider it a massive red flag.

Even if you take the story at face value, I think he escalated things in a manner that was more violent than necessary. It sounds like the other guy was just an annoying drunk, but not a real threat. And bear in mind that he's probably telling the story to put himself in the best possible light; it could be much worse than what he has described. It was bad enough for the guards to take his details ffs!

Obviously nobody can tell if he will be abusive in a relationship. However for him to describe himself as a non-violent person? I'm sorry, but non-violent people don't put other people in choke holds :rolleyes:

silverharp

all positive, the 2 types of guys at either end of the scale you would want to be wary of are ones that are thuggish and lash out for no reason and at the other end sneaky bully types that would be violent or aggressive in private. This guy responded well and in a controlled manner, he also owned it by going to the police after, most wouldn’t. He demonstrated some very admirable characteristics in a situation not of his choosing.

Xterminator

1.The man was drunk and being a nuisance
2.untied A's shoelaces,
3.poked him,
4.pulled his shirt etc. A and his group told him where to go and
5.he got more aggressive and shoved A.

by taking this drunk person and neutralizing them without violence i believe A de-escalated the situation that was heading towards a fight. It showed restraint, and confidence in himself. The action was completely warranted and appropriate to the situation.

Look, a choke hold done right does not injure someone. a single punch can kill someone. including the girlfriend or a bystander if unlucky. Even the drunk was protected from the consequences of his actions in this scenario, as was poster, A, and a's friends.

professore

woodchuck wrote: »

I'm going to go against the majority of posters here and say that I would consider it a massive red flag.

Even if you take the story at face value, I think he escalated things in a manner that was more violent than necessary.

OK what less "violent" approach could he have taken then? BTW I don't consider a choke hold violent under the circumstances. And walking away wouldn't have helped either - he would have followed him prodding and poking, and eventually trying to hit A.

Seen it many times ....

And also it's these prodding and poking types that are much more likely to be wife beaters. Trying to prove what big men they are.

endacl

Dial Hard wrote: »

Has he shown *any* other behaviour that might be a potential red flag? I think if this is a completely out of the norm, one-off thing for him then you should give him the benefit of the doubt.

No benefit of the doubt necessary. Reads lie he acted in a very measured and entirely appropriate way.

woodchuck

professore wrote: »

OK what less "violent" approach could he have taken then? BTW I don't consider a choke hold violent under the circumstances. And walking away wouldn't have helped either - he would have followed him prodding and poking, and eventually trying to hit A.

Well they were queuing to get into a place, so presumably there were bouncers on the door. Personally I would've just tried to ignore him as I find drunk people lose interest quickly if you act like they're invisible. But failing that, I would've told the bouncers that there's a drunk eejit in the queue hassling people. I'm sure they would've gotten rid of him.

If the other guy was getting violent (doesn't sound like he was) there were also guards nearby. So if I actually felt physically threatned, I would've gotten their attention to step in.

I'm just saying that he was in the queue with a group of friends, bouncers nearby, guards too. Yet the only person who felt it necessary to get physical with this guy was the OPs boyfriend. That would be a red flag to me.

MartyMcFly84

Sounds like he stood up for himself and also used restraint.

he likely did the best thing in the scenario he was in. No one got hurt.

skallywag

woodchuck wrote: »

I'm just saying that he was in the queue with a group of friends, bouncers nearby, guards too. Yet the only person who felt it necessary to get physical with this guy was the OPs boyfriend. That would be a red flag to me.

... and the only person who was being physically intimidated by this guy was the OP's boyfriend ...

No red flag at all here in my own humble opinion.

woodchuck

skallywag wrote: »

... and the only person who was being physically intimidated by this guy was the OP's boyfriend ...

No red flag at all here in my own humble opinion.

I accept that my opinion appears to be in the minority here and I'll admit that I might be influenced by my own bad experiences.

I remember an ex of mine getting caught up in a fight on a night out very early in our relationship. I wasn't there and at the time he made out like he was completely innocent. However over time, this started to become a pattern and when we were out together I noticed that he seemed to be looking for trouble. He had a way of winding other guys up and getting them to be the first one to make physical contact so that he could always claim self defense. He never got violent with me, but he was very physically intimidating, so it's something I just know to watch out for now.

Again, I'm just saying (in my opinion) it's a red flag. I'm not suggesting she immediately dumps him, but I'd definitely be conscious of his behaviour to see if a pattern emerges.