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Buying classic from UK - paperwork - no MOT

  • 22-11-2018 6:49pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,043 ✭✭✭ MrCostington


    (I guess this could go into the main Moters, or Buying & Selling but trying here due to classic nature - mods please move if)


    I found a classic in the UK that looks like it's worth going to see (near Manachaster airport) - I have never purchased a car in the UK before so have some questions.

    My plan is to fly there and back same day. If happy to buy, leave a deposit and fly there ship back later on.

    Car is about 3k so will pay cash - no problem flying with that amount under 10k?

    What should I get of the seller - V5 and reciept enough? Do they need to send it to the DLVC or do I. What will I need for the VRT? Do I need to provide the seller with anything? How do I know a V5 is genuine, I've never had one in my hand.


    This would be my first classic and all insurance companies say I need a NCT or MOT - car's MOT is expired 2014 (been stored). What are my noptions for getting it home to Dublin, and from the port to my home and NCT center.

    How much would a flat bed be for the UK part, and from Dublin Port to Santry?

    I thought that someone else could drive it on their own policy but insurance companies say most "driving other cars" will mrequire it to be tested.

    Any other options?


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Comments

  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 2,941 Mod ✭✭✭✭ macplaxton


    Car is about 3k so will pay cash - no problem flying with that amount under 10k?

    Shouldn't be a problem. The cash limit is 10k EURO before a declaration has to be made. However, don't look dodgy with more than 1k.

    https://www.revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/travelling-with-cash/index.aspx
    What should I get of the seller - V5 and reciept enough?

    You should get a receipt and the Vehicle Registration Certificate V5C (at least the front page, sections 1-8). Make sure everything checks out and that it is all cleared. Bear in mind the V5C is in the name of the registered "keeper" and this may not necessarily be the legal owner of the vehicle.
    Do they need to send it to the DLVC or do I.

    Unlike a domestic UK sale, you need the part that they normally send off. You present this when registering here and the NCTS notify the DVLA to de-registered it. The seller should send a letter in.

    From DVLA leaflet INS160
    "What to do if you are selling your vehicle privately to someone
    that does not have a GB address

    You should fill in sections 6 and 10 with the new keeper’s name and address.
    Both you and the new keeper (buyer) must sign and date the declaration in
    section 8. Give the whole V5C to the new keeper to aid registration abroad.
    You should then send a signed letter to DVLA, Swansea, SA99 1AG giving
    the vehicle’s registration number, the make and model of the vehicle, the
    date of sale or transfer, and the name and address of the new keeper.
    Once we know about the change of keeper, you should receive an
    acknowledgement letter to confirm that you are no longer responsible for
    the vehicle. If you do not receive the letter within 4 weeks, please phone
    0300 790 6802. If you are deaf or hard of hearing and have access
    to a textphone, phone 0300 123 1279 (this number will not respond to
    ordinary phones)."
    What will I need for the VRT?

    Money, ID and paperwork, see: NCTS VRT FAQs
    Do I need to provide the seller with anything?
    Money.
    How do I know a V5 is genuine, I've never had one in my hand.

    Check the watermark AND check it doesn't have a serial number from the batch of blanks that were stolen. See: https://www.gov.uk/checks-when-buying-a-used-car The typeface used is quite distinct.
    This would be my first classic and all insurance companies say I need a NCT or MOT - car's MOT is expired 2014 (been stored). What are my noptions for getting it home to Dublin, and from the port to my home and NCT center.

    How much would a flat bed be for the UK part, and from Dublin Port to Santry?

    I thought that someone else could drive it on their own policy but insurance companies say most "driving other cars" will mrequire it to be tested.

    Any other options?

    Transportation can be expensive. There isn't a reason for it not to be tested - even if exempt here or there - because I can be done voluntarily if it keeps the insurer quiet. Insurer will insure it on its UK registration number for the purposes of driving it back.

    How old is the car?


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,535 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Dades


    Just wondering is it driving well enough? Or if the seller has any inclination to put it through an MOT?

    Maybe even you could incentivise him (£££) to get it MOT'd as having one could save you a lot of hassle here with an obtuse tester at the NCT (as well as with insurance etc.)


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 2,941 Mod ✭✭✭✭ macplaxton


    Just to add. EU roadworthiness test certs are mutually recognised since 20th May and can be exchanged.

    Therefore a fresh MOT can be swapped for the balance of validity to a NCT cert.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,043 ✭✭✭ MrCostington


    macplaxton wrote: »
    Shouldn't be a problem. The cash limit is 10k EURO before a declaration has to be made. However, don't look dodgy with more than 1k.


    I'll iron me tracksuit then :)




    Seriously, many thanks for all that info!



    How many pages in the V5C? Is that different to a V5? Thanks for the link re stolen ones. The seller is a business, seems like an honest guy but I will do all the checks regardless.


    Will I need road tax (assuming I can drive, I'll cover MOT in reply to Dades)


    Many thanks!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,043 ✭✭✭ MrCostington


    Dades wrote: »
    Just wondering is it driving well enough? Or if the seller has any inclination to put it through an MOT?

    Maybe even you could incentivise him (£££) to get it MOT'd as having one could save you a lot of hassle here with an obtuse tester at the NCT (as well as with insurance etc.)


    It's an '82 W123 280 and I wont be buying if I have any doubts about it making the trip home. So worth getting MOT which I can exchange for an NCT. We discussed briefly getting an MOT. Worried price would go up is it had one. Will discuss when there.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,043 ✭✭✭ MrCostington


    macplaxton wrote: »
    Just to add. EU roadworthiness test certs are mutually recognised since 20th May and can be exchanged.

    Therefore a fresh MOT can be swapped for the balance of validity to a NCT cert.


    Thanks, yes I knew that.


    Actually, the process of posting the question here and seeing the replies, really getting an MOT is the only way to go I think.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,535 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Dades


    Actually, the process of posting the question here and seeing the replies, really getting an MOT is the only way to go I think.
    I really think it makes sense. You know the car is good, and you're spared the shock of an Irish NCT. Worth a decent premium in my book.

    If the car gets MOT'd you might consider taking a punt and just going out there once with the cash. For 3k it seems like two trips might be overkill. Instead one flight and a ferry ticket! Also, most bad stuff will be hidden from a visual inspection by a "punter" (I'd include myself in this category), so the value of a reccie is limited unless you have skillz.

    But it totally depends on how you feel about the car and the honestly of the owner. If you have any reservations, proceed with caution. :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,043 ✭✭✭ MrCostington


    I agree with you - am in two minds to fire off an email now asking for an MOT, or wait till I'm there. I feel seller may get pi**ed off with me if I ask now, as I've got lots of pics taken for me.

    You make a good point about one trip, but I just booked the flight this morning, €48 return, train £5 and he will collect me from station. I think if I had booked a boat back that would put me in a very weak negotiating position when it comes to price. It being nearly xmas and knowing i'm flying off come what may, I think that puts more cards in my hand.

    I'm a 'punter' too, but I sent the pics (24 in total) off to an MB restorer I met via the MB club - he thinks it's not too bad (but will need work).

    seller seems honest, but caveat emptor :)


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 2,941 Mod ✭✭✭✭ macplaxton


    How many pages in the V5C? Is that different to a V5?

    4 sides of A4, it's an A3 sheet folded in half.

    The front sheet is sections 1-8. The back sheet Sections 9-12 are three tear-off bits for sale/transfer to trader, sale/transfer to private individual. Section 11 is the export bit, but AFAIK that is if the registered keeper is exporting the vehicle themselves. Section 12 is just notes.

    Good pics here: http://car-from-uk.com/v5c.php

    The 11-digit document reference number on the front page is used for doing online stuff. E.g. looking up the actual test station on the MOT website. The added the actual station to the look-up, then pulled it after a couple of months. Also recent V5C will not have previous recorded keeper details on it because of GDPR.

    https://vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk

    https://www.check-mot.service.gov.uk

    The difference between a V5 and V5C is that the V5 is the old "Vehicle Registration Document" which was a single sheet slightly longer than A4 which just had one tear-off at the bottom. These are no longer valid (and haven't been since 1st July 2005)

    V5-document.gif

    The V5C was introduced c. 2003(?) to comply with EU harmonisation of vehicle documentation. So field all the field code numbers are the same. "E" will always be the VIN, "R" will always be the colour, etc.

    Upon sale/transfer of vehicle, any tax/SORN drops off at that point and the new keeper has to do something about it. Now I've driven (perfectly legally) a car stood for 2 years about 70 miles to a pre-arranged MOT test, passed it and popped up to the PO to buy some tax and drove it another 200-odd miles back to Holyhead.

    I've also done the 200-odd miles in an untaxed car still showing as taxed on the database and didn't get a tug. I'm sure discretion would be used if the plod were happy with everything else.

    I've also driven an untaxed/MOT'd car back too, but that was only from West Kirby - 15 miles - to catch the P&O from Bootle.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,535 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Dades


    I'm a 'punter' too, but I sent the pics (24 in total) off to an MB restorer I met via the MB club - he thinks it's not too bad (but will need work).
    You sound like you know what you're at - so have at it! And 50 quid for a roundtrip is a no-brainer.

    I assume there isn't too much work required as per your MB guy.
    People do suggest that buying a car that's had the work done is cheaper than getting it done yourself...


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,043 ✭✭✭ MrCostington


    @macplaxton - many thanks for that, you know your stuff!

    I'll read in detail over the weekend.

    Would it be worth it to risk Manchaster to Liverpool or Holyhead without tax, a good bit more than your 15 miles. That have automated camers in the cop cars there, yes?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,043 ✭✭✭ MrCostington


    @Dades - lol thanks! Don't know that much but bought a buyers guide book for w123, went to shows and joined the club, did my research. Prob still get a lemon!

    This car will need a fair bit but plan to do is as I can afford. Dead right though better to buy good to start off with, but market so small here


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,535 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Dades


    Maybe I'm old school, but I honestly wouldn't think twice about getting out of the UK without tax. Just drive it home.

    I broke a few speed limits 9 years ago in an untaxed Porsche trying to make Holyhead! One and only time I hit a ton in her. :pac:


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 2,941 Mod ✭✭✭✭ macplaxton


    Would it be worth it to risk Manchaster to Liverpool or Holyhead without tax

    That's for you to decide... ANPR in lots of cars there. Sometimes you might not see one, sometimes you see loads.

    For all my motoring sins I've only been hung once in 27 years. Last year, unmarked car on the A75, 85mph in a 60mph zone cracking on for the boat. Cost me a day in court and 300 GBP fine.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭ Isambard


    you may get away with being untaxed but you won't if caught with no MoT and with no Insurance documents, which need to be for the actual car.


  • Registered Users Posts: 100 ✭✭ Peew


    I agree with you - am in two minds to fire off an email now asking for an MOT, or wait till I'm there. I feel seller may get pi**ed off with me if I ask now, as I've got lots of pics taken for me.

    You make a good point about one trip, but I just booked the flight this morning, €48 return, train £5 and he will collect me from station. I think if I had booked a boat back that would put me in a very weak negotiating position when it comes to price. It being nearly xmas and knowing i'm flying off come what may, I think that puts more cards in my hand.

    I'm a 'punter' too, but I sent the pics (24 in total) off to an MB restorer I met via the MB club - he thinks it's not too bad (but will need work)

    I've been reading your post with great interest as someone that often thought about buying a classic from the UK, I have my W124 that's work and am a member of the MB club, can I ask who your restorer is as I'm trying to gather up contacts in order to get my own 124 sorted.cheers


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,043 ✭✭✭ MrCostington


    macplaxton wrote: »
    Bear in mind the V5C is in the name of the registered "keeper" and this may not necessarily be the legal owner of the vehicle.

    Firstly, many thanks again for all your help and the links, I've gone through them and will being printouts with me.

    Re the above point, the seller runs a storage business, what should I do if the name/address does not match where I see the car? Would this https://www.gov.uk/get-vehicle-information-from-dvla flag is it was stolen?

    The car is in carandclassic.co.uk with reg number displayed, so prob ok but one can't be too careful!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,043 ✭✭✭ MrCostington


    [QUOTE=Peew;108711363]I've been reading your post with great interest as someone that often thought about buying a classic from the UK, I have my W124 that's work and am a member of the MB club, can I ask who your restorer is as I'm trying to gather up contacts in order to get my own 124 sorted.cheers[/QUOTE]

    PM sent and I forgot to say he does not do bodywork, but am sure he can recommend someone.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,043 ✭✭✭ MrCostington


    Just to update you all. Went over yesterday, unfortunately when I lifted the carpets founds lots of rust and water. Search continues ..

    But many thanks for all your help!


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,535 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Dades


    Well that's annoying, though better now than finding it in Ireland.

    Was that find contrary to what the seller had suggested?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,043 ✭✭✭ MrCostington


    Dades wrote: »
    Well that's annoying, though better now than finding it in Ireland.

    Was that find contrary to what the seller had suggested?


    Not really I feel. He described many things good and bad and all were spot on. I did ask about floors and he said they were good. Which was the case if you had a quick look, but I removed the carpets completely.



    So bit lazy but honest I felt. Nice guy, make me a coffee and collected/ dropped back to train station and apologetic about wasted trip.


    IMG-0096.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭ Isambard


    those couple of scabs? doesn't look anything a price reduction wouldn't fix


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,891 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    +1

    If it just passed the MOT it's unlikely to be structural rot

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 370 ✭✭ supervento


    Not really I feel. He described many things good and bad and all were spot on. I did ask about floors and he said they were good. Which was the case if you had a quick look, but I removed the carpets completely.



    So bit lazy but honest I felt. Nice guy, make me a coffee and collected/ dropped back to train station and apologetic about wasted trip.


    IMG-0096.jpg

    i know of so many people that have had the same problem after going to the Uk to buy a car, so frustrating when it happens....

    i think some dealers tend to be more professional in their approach than some private sellers... although you can meet some bad dealers too, usually easy enough to weed them out when you ask for videos or pictures of negative points of the car and there not forthcoming....

    sometimes you better off just paying extra and buying a good example as restorations can be thousands....


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,043 ✭✭✭ MrCostington


    Isambard wrote: »
    those couple of scabs? doesn't look anything a price reduction wouldn't fix

    Don't do that to me lol. There was a small spot of deep rust on the outside of the sill at that point so I reckon it was all the way through. It also needed repairs on 3 arches. Send several pics to an MB guy from the club, he said I was right to walk.
    unkel wrote: »
    +1

    If it just passed the MOT it's unlikely to be structural rot

    I guess you mean if it passed this week? It last passed in 2013 but has just done 6 miles since. Not sure I have a lot of faith in the MOT - didn't you have same experience with your W201?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,043 ✭✭✭ MrCostington


    supervento wrote: »
    i know of so many people that have had the same problem after going to the Uk to buy a car, so frustrating when it happens....

    i think some dealers tend to be more professional in their approach than some private sellers... although you can meet some bad dealers too, usually easy enough to weed them out when you ask for videos or pictures of negative points of the car and there not forthcoming....

    sometimes you better off just paying extra and buying a good example as restorations can be thousands....

    It was a dealer .. see my reply to Dades above (post 22)

    I agree best to buy good and pay bit more.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,891 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    I guess you mean if it passed this week? It last passed in 2013 but has just done 6 miles since. Not sure I have a lot of faith in the MOT - didn't you have same experience with your W201?

    Apologies, I somehow thought you got the seller to MOT the car before you went over. I see now that you were contemplating that, but it obviously didn't happen

    And yes, my car needed all new metal brake lines and welding on one sill to pass the NCT (even though it had just got a new MOT). Not the first time the test guys in Fonthill seemed to be very strict on one of my cars. I don't mind though. I'd rather they point out weaknesses than pass a car with borderline safety issues.

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,043 ✭✭✭ MrCostington


    Yeah, we agreed that he would MOT it if I put a deposit down. So it was last done in '13. I wonder did it pass like that. He gave me a lift to the train station, we passed at least 3 MOT garages within 5 min of his place, one doing it for £29.95 (important to save the 5p!). It was the insurance insisting on the test for the drive to the ferry.

    I remember your story and seen a few similar here since I joined.

    Haha they must not like you in Fonthill, did you kick one of their puppys:)


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,535 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Dades


    Don't you get a "free" NCT these days when you import a car with an MOT?
    Though I understand you'd only be kicking the can down the road in terms of sorting obstacles to getting the test passed in 2 years. Still, buys time to sort stuff out.
    Haha they must not like you in Fonthill, did you kick one of their puppys:)
    I must have ran over a few of their kittens, too.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,043 ✭✭✭ MrCostington


    Yes, that's what I understand.

    Had I got the car my plan was to being it to "my guy" who works on classic MBs for a once over to see if I bought a lemon or not, and prioritise work as I go while still using it. So the aim would to have had it in pretty good shape come NCT time.


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