Tips for train/bike commute

Mink

I will have a 5min cycle to local train station, then 1hr train journey and then 20 min cycle to work (5k). Planning on getting a folding bike. I simply don't have the funds to get a top of the range one, most likely going to go second hand - Apollo or Raleigh.

I have never cycled to work, looking for any and all tips for keeping relatively dry/ clean. I don't want to go out and buy a ton of gear that I think I might need only to find I don't.

Never even considered the sweat aspect but I don't know that I'd get really sweaty on a 5k cycle, assuming I am not going at breakneck speed. I'd be fairly fit.

RayCun

Leave a change of clothes in work.
Rain gear tends to be hot and sweaty.
You won't need it very often, but better to have dry clothes available to change into than to try to avoid getting wet.

Dress for how warm you will feel after a few minutes cycling, not how you will feel at the start.

Marlay

It's probably an idea to see the bike you would be thinking of getting folded in person. I had thought about doing this but the cheaper bike I have when folded is still pretty big. I wouldn't get it on a busy train. Leaving a cheap bike at the other end for the longer cycle might work out better.

bk

I was going to say, two cheap bikes at either end (or just one, the home side sounds short and easily walkable).

€50 second hand bike, the uglier the better, some folks purposefully make their bikes look uglier, with paint/stickers, while being mechanically sound and well maintained. Two good quality u-locks for each bike. Allows you to leave the bike at the station. Unlikely to get robed, but even if it does, not a big deal price wise.

Probably cheaper overall then those folding bikes, less trouble bringing it on the train and probably cycles better then the folding bike due to larger wheels and more normal cycling position.

Another option might be one of those electric scooters. Also is Dublin Bikes or that other bike share crowd an option?

Wishbone Ash

If you post over in the Cycling Forum or do a search there you'll probably get more responses.

AlanG

as said earlier a second bike would be a good option - I had one parked on the rail outside tara st station for about 18 months before it was damaged. Two cheap enough U locks. Prior to that i had it in Connolly before the moved the racks out of the main station.

prinzeugen

bk wrote: »

I was going to say, two cheap bikes at either end (or just one, the home side sounds short and easily walkable).

€50 second hand bike, the uglier the better, some folks purposefully make their bikes look uglier, with paint/stickers, while being mechanically sound and well maintained. Two good quality u-locks for each bike. Allows you to leave the bike at the station. Unlikely to get robed, but even if it does, not a big deal price wise.

Probably cheaper overall then those folding bikes, less trouble bringing it on the train and probably cycles better then the folding bike due to larger wheels and more normal cycling position.

Another option might be one of those electric scooters. Also is Dublin Bikes or that other bike share crowd an option?

Those electric scooters are not legal for use in public areas. They are MPVs as discussed elsewhere.

The Garda are seizing them left, right and centre.

Ray Bloody Purchase

prinzeugen wrote: »

Those electric scooters are not legal for use in public areas. They are MPVs as discussed elsewhere.

The Garda are seizing them left, right and centre.

I saw a lad bomb past me yesterday in Dublin City Centre on a sit down version of one of these. It was basically a scooter but with a seat post. I'd wager he wasn't too far away from the speed limit on it.

railer201

prinzeugen wrote: »

Those electric scooters are not legal for use in public areas. They are MPVs as discussed elsewhere.

The Garda are seizing them left, right and centre.

I passed one of my neighbours on an ordinary push scooter this morning. The wheels are about 1 ft in diameter, maybe a little less. He was proceeding effortlessly along the road alternating feet every six pushes or so, and what amazed me was that he was doing a steady 10mph. Perhaps food for thought for short journeys at either end of a train journey.

bk

prinzeugen wrote: »

Those electric scooters are not legal for use in public areas. They are MPVs as discussed elsewhere.

The Garda are seizing them left, right and centre.

A few of my neighbours have them, I'm seeing them daily now, they look great. I've also not heard of any being seized by Gardai. Sure the large motorised ones, but not the little Xiaomi electric ones.

Their illegality is actually a grey area and some TD's are currently questioning it and looking for clarification from the AG.

IMO they are great and I see no reason at all why they should be illegal, it is just incredibly dumb *

* I get why it is a legal grey area, technically all mechanised vehicles are supposed to be licensed and insured, but those laws were created decades before little electric scooters existed. It would be pretty dumb to apply laws aimed at motor vehicles at little electric scooters that have less mass and speed then a pedal bike.

This is a very clear case of the law needing to adjust to new technological developments.

rubadub

bk wrote: »

Their illegality is actually a grey area and some TD's are currently questioning it and looking for clarification from the AG.

Why is it a "grey area? I had no doubt that they were illegal and was surprised to see Noel Rock using one on a public road.

It is not just tax & insurance, I think he would be done for no motorbike helmet and light issues.



https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/ludicrous-electric-scooter-law-needs-to-be-changed-says-td-37074517.html

I see he claimed it was a grey area, but he is a known bullshitter, just yesterday he was lying about spice girls tickets & touts.

Rock says that it’s time to treat the devices, which travel at speeds of up to 25kph, more like bicycles.

“The law in Ireland, as it stands, is out of date when it comes to these vehicles,” he said.

“In most European countries, these vehicles are treated the same as electric assisted bicycles. In Ireland, however, they exist in something of a grey area and their legal status is very much open to interpretation as to whether or not it is a mechanically propelled vehicle. Given the vehicle needs a manual ‘kickstart’ intervention and reach a minimum speed of 5km/h manually to start operation, it is different from a purely mechanical vehicle. Accordingly, this needs to be amended and clarified.”

A spokeswoman for the Road Safety Authority told Independent.ie that scooters such as the Xiaomi model, even though they require a manual start like an electric bicycle, still need to be taxed and insured under existing Irish law.

“As it is classed as the Mechanically propelled Vehicle, under current legislation it falls within the scope of the law,” she said.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/ludicrous-electric-scooter-law-needs-to-be-changed-says-td-37074517.html

The law penalising electric scooters, bikes and skateboards in Irish cities needs to be changed, according to a Government TD.

At present, using one can result in fines, penalty points or prison as such devices, classed in Ireland as "mechanically propelled vehicles", are illegal to use unless the owner has a driver's licence and insurance.

Gardaave begun confiscating the machines, which are being used on footpaths and roads, and have warned they are currently regarded in the same vein as motorbikes.

monument

bk wrote: »

Their illegality is actually a grey area and some TD's are currently questioning it and looking for clarification from the AG.

IMO they are great and I see no reason at all why they should be illegal, it is just incredibly dumb *

* I get why it is a legal grey area, technically all mechanised vehicles are supposed to be licensed and insured, but those laws were created decades before little electric scooters existed. It would be pretty dumb to apply laws aimed at motor vehicles at little electric scooters that have less mass and speed then a pedal bike.

This is a very clear case of the law needing to adjust to new technological developments.

There is no grey area.

This was also said about high-speed electric bikes (which are motorbikes not bicycles), and the retailers who were saying such were wrong. It seems to be the same case here.

beauf

Its not a grey area. That said they should bring in some new rules for them. I'd love one.

beauf

Mink wrote: »

I will have a 5min cycle to local train station, then 1hr train journey and then 20 min cycle to work (5k). Planning on getting a folding bike. I simply don't have the funds to get a top of the range one, most likely going to go second hand - Apollo or Raleigh.....

Avoid Apollo. Raleigh is meh.

You want light and compact. The cheaper bikes are heavy and don't fold well. I like Dahon Speed Uno. https://dahon.com/bikes/speed-uno-2/ No gears, but do you really need them. Makes the bike much lighter and easier to maintain with no gears.

You don't have to buy new some bargains in them 2nd hand as many buy them, then either find they don't use them, or change commute so don't need them.

For example
https://www.adverts.ie/electric-folding-bikes/folding-bike/16558185

Lot of cheap folding bikes on adverts. Many are not great.

Corca Baiscinn

beauf wrote: »

Avoid Apollo. Raleigh is meh.

You want light and compact. The cheaper bikes are heavy and don't fold well. I like Dahon Speed Uno. https://dahon.com/bikes/speed-uno-2/ No gears, but do you really need them. Makes the bike much lighter and easier to maintain with no gears.

You don't have to buy new some bargains in them 2nd hand as many buy them, then either find they don't use them, or change commute so don't need them.

For example
https://www.adverts.ie/electric-folding-bikes/folding-bike/16558185

Lot of cheap folding bikes on adverts. Many are not great.

Thanks Beauf, not in the market right now but might be, so good to have a recommendation.

OP probably pleased too that the discussion reverted to the question he asked:) But at the risk of derailing it again re the scooters - grey area/no grey area I think I heard Noel Rock saying on Drivetime that the Garda and Revenue had opposing views re the necessity to tax and insure them so it will be interesting to see how it pans out.

Somewhat related (tho not to the OP's question) is if they were made legal where should they travel, ie road/cycle-lane? Heard a disability advocate from UK who rides a trike I think being interviewed and she said that maybe it was time that cycle lanes were reclassified as mobility lanes so bikes, adapted bikes, powered wheelchairs and I presume mini-scooters could use them. In NL the less powerful conventional scooters can use cycle lanes but can't say i was keen.

rubadub

Corca Baiscinn wrote: »

if they were made legal where should they travel, ie road/cycle-lane?

well according to Noel Rock

In most European countries, these vehicles are treated the same as electric assisted bicycles.

Which would mean the majority of european countries, recognise these, and permit use on roads and "cycle lanes". A quick search proves this to be a pure lie -as you would expect.

For public use any countries I read about require electric assisted bicycles to be pedelecs, so the scooters would require some sort of foot pedal to continuously be pressed up and down which would aid the powering of the vehicle.

beauf

They don't need a pedal. They just need to create a new vehicle class for them. See how other cities in the US are dealing with them. They have scooter schemes similar to Dublin bikes. But they've it's not without problems.

The problem is the speed disparity between the various modes of transport and walkers. Mixing them is a problem.

In Holland they have lots of problems and protests about moped style scooters using cycle lanes.

rubadub

beauf wrote: »

They don't need a pedal..

I am saying if Noel Rock is correct, and the majority of european countries treat them as pedelecs then they have to have something. They cannot have a throttle.

If all you needed was to have to start off with a pedal or "scoot" then the e-bike manufacturers would have this on their bikes, just give a quick pedal to start and then change over to a throttle. The majority of bicycles with petrol motors strapped on are not road legal.

beauf wrote: »

They just need to create a new vehicle class for them.

That is presuming they want to encourage them, the gardai have said they are confiscating them, so it is not like they are turning a blind eye.

They currently do have a vehicle class. It seems to be L1e "Light two-wheel powered vehicle" which seems to have a max speed of 25km/h and max power 1000W. I have seen legit bike shops in the UK selling ebikes with that speed limit and 750W engines and people having to fully register them.


http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Your-Vehicle/About-your-Vehicle/What-Category-is-my-vehicle/Motorcyclesmopedstrikes--quads/

beauf

The RSA is missing some information. L1e is just the grouping. Its broken into two classes.

Category L1e-A: powered cycle
Category L1e-B: two-wheel moped

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_category

I think the Garda showing a handful of times they've actually stopped someone doesn't tell us much about anything.

beauf

https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2017/09/26/why-are-all-these-scooters-here/

I tried to find info about the smaller scooters but all I found was this...

prinzeugen

rubadub wrote: »

I am saying if Noel Rock is correct, and the majority of european countries treat them as pedelecs then they have to have something. They cannot have a throttle.

If all you needed was to have to start off with a pedal or "scoot" then the e-bike manufacturers would have this on their bikes, just give a quick pedal to start and then change over to a throttle. The majority of bicycles with petrol motors strapped on are not road legal.

That is presuming they want to encourage them, the gardai have said they are confiscating them, so it is not like they are turning a blind eye.

They currently do have a vehicle class. It seems to be L1e "Light two-wheel powered vehicle" which seems to have a max speed of 25km/h and max power 1000W. I have seen legit bike shops in the UK selling ebikes with that speed limit and 750W engines and people having to fully register them.


http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Your-Vehicle/About-your-Vehicle/What-Category-is-my-vehicle/Motorcyclesmopedstrikes--quads/

All bicycles fitted with petrol engines are illegal not just some of them.

In the RSA link you posted, there is one key bit in the middle. "All new vehicles imported into Ireland must comply with European Community Whole Vehicle Type Approval (EU) No 168/2013

An EC Certificate of Conformity is required at registration". Note the registration bit.

They need reg plates and thus the person using them in public needs a licence etc.

There is not a hope in hell that you would get a cert of conformity. I know as I looked into making a motocross bike road legal.

The KW of the power source means nothing also.

Anyone using one on the road needs a category AM driving licence at the minimum.

bk

It is absolutely insane that anyone would class an electric scooter as a motor vehicle and require license, insurance, helmet, etc.

They are clearly no different or dangerous then pedal bikes and electric bikes and should be treated as such.

They are a great tool that can help close the last mile gap of public transport and we should be doing everything possible to promote them and encourage them, rather then trying to use stupid out of date laws to discourage them.

Very, very stupid and well done to Noel Rock for trying to get this fixed.

beauf

No one has classed it as anything. That's just what it falls under by default.

The rules exist for a reason, so someone doesn't cycle on motorways, or people don't drive on footpaths.

Lumen

bk wrote: »

It is absolutely insane that anyone would class an electric scooter as a motor vehicle and require license, insurance, helmet, etc.

They are clearly no different or dangerous then pedal bikes and electric bikes and should be treated as such..

There are several ways in which they are different and more dangerous, like:

1. They cannot brake as effectively, because the centre of mass is very high compared to the wheelbase, and in any case the braking is done on the rear wheel.

2. They are more liable to crash when they hit a pothole, because the wheels are tiny.

For example:

https://www.zdnet.com/article/mi-electric-scooter-review-complete-that-last-mile-commute-with-ease/

Downhill is another aspect where my weight exceeds the braking capacity of the system. I have some steep hills in my neighborhood and in downtown Seattle so if they are too steep then I walk the scooter down. I build up too much momentum for the brakes to work down steep hills.

Brakes so bad that you have to walk it downhill? Eh, I think I'll pass.

beauf

The brake bits might be how hes using it. He says he builds up momentum. Maybe hes simply going too fast. Especially as this model is regarded as having decent brakes.
On my old bike on a steep hill if I have heavy panniers (i'm not light) and going fast downhill the Cantilever brakes will struggle.
Of course even on a bike most effective braking is on the front wheel, not the back one.

I think if you were using a scooter, you'd be wise to consider a considerable helmet and wrist protectors and maybe even some MTB style armour.

Alternatively, just don't go so fast.