How would I spot a scam

iamtony

Hi my brother is looking to rent a room he viewed this morning in an owner occupied shared house.
In swords.
He went to view and he met a women who had keys for the house and showed him around but said she was an agent.
If seems a bit to good to be true and they are asking him to pay a deposit.
The ad on daft doesn't have a phone number and he has only made contact via email.
Would it be normal for an owner occupied house to be shown by an agent? There's no mention of an agent on the ad.
I'm sceptical but the fact he was able to go to the house and be let in makes me think its OK? She asked could he take off his shoes entering as one of the rooms had a girl unwell in it.
Any opinions welcome, thanks.

worker bee

Does he know what agency it is? Call their office directly and confirm the details.

iamtony

worker bee wrote: »

Does he know what agency it is? Call their office directly and confirm the details.

No he doesn't know.

.......

How would leaving his shoes on bother an unwell person in a different room?

Sounds distinctly odd. Cant see why an owner occupier would bother with an agent, surely theyd want to meet the person they were going to live with themselves?

Did he get credentials from the person who showed him around and check them independently?

iamtony

....... wrote: »

How would leaving his shoes on bother an unwell person in a different room?

Sounds distinctly odd. Cant see why an owner occupier would bother with an agent, surely theyd want to meet the person they were going to live with themselves?

Did he get credentials from the person who showed him around and check them independently?

it does seem odd that's why I'm here. And that's exactly what I though about wanting to meet him personally. I'm going to ask him what her email address is to see its it's a company email.
No credentials, no phone number, but according to him she was a sweet little women.
I've no experience with this kind of stuff so I'm in the dark.

iamtony

Would some ads be marked owner occupied by mistake on daft? Is it just a check box of something?

worker bee

Sounds a bit odd so.
Use the email again and check what company the agency is.

That should help clarify things.

Is it the unwell girl's room he's taking? If it was the living room or kitchen it's a bit odd she wouldn't just go to her own bedroom for the 10 minutes or so.

iamtony

worker bee wrote: »

Sounds a bit odd so.
Use the email again and check what company the agency is.

That should help clarify things.

Is it the unwell girl's room he's taking? If it was the living room or kitchen it's a bit odd she wouldn't just go to her own bedroom for the 10 minutes or so.

email address is @hotmail.co.uk no the unwell girl has rented one room. 2 other rooms for rent at different prices as one has an en suite.
He is now saying he doesn't know if she is an agent but she is definitely a go between of some sort. I don't know.
He sent her a reference and is waiting to here back now bit the email he had was strange, it was kind of asking for the deposit and the reference at the same time.
The room is 575 per month, is that about normal for swords?

TheChizler

An agent doesn't necessarily have to be a company, could be a friend or relative of the owner.

.......

iamtony wrote: »

email address is @hotmail.co.uk no the unwell girl has rented one room. 2 other rooms for rent at different prices as one has an en suite.
He is now saying he doesn't know if she is an agent but she is definitely a go between of some sort. I don't know.
He sent her a reference and is waiting to here back now bit the email he had was strange, it was kind of asking for the deposit and the reference at the same time.
The room is 575 per month, is that about normal for swords?

So where does the owner live and why werent they there?

worker bee

I don't know about the prices but the hotmail address is not professional.

Could genuinely just be a friend helping out but he should try clarify this.

He needs to talk to the landlady with a list of questions before I would hand over any money.

And get a tenant agreement in writing - on a proper form rather than a scrap of paper etc.

Good luck

.......

worker bee wrote: »

I don't know about the prices but the hotmail address is not professional.

Could genuinely just be a friend helping out but he should try clarify this.

He needs to talk to the landlady with a list of questions before I would hand over any money.

And get a tenant agreement in writing - on a proper form rather than a scrap of paper etc.

Good luck

There wont be a tenancy agreement if he is only a licensee.

There may be a list of House Rules.

iamtony

....... wrote: »

So where does the owner live and why werent they there?

I've honestly no idea. They also asked for 50 euro to be sent towards the TV licence that was just purchased? Seems odd to me but I've never rented so maybyle this is normal?

.......

iamtony wrote: »

I've honestly no idea. They also asked for 50 euro to be sent towards the TV licence that was just purchased? Seems odd to me but I've never rented so maybyle this is normal?

Youd imagine an owner occupier would build fixed costs like that into the price of the room.

What way are they looking for the money? Bank transfer? Cash? Western Union?

Deaf student

Yes it sounded and looked like a scam to me. I have never came across any landlord asking me for a tv Licence fee as it's their cost (cos they owned tv).

Look up a PTSB or register of landlord owners (land registry) at that address that your brother had visited.

Hotmail address sounded very dodgy as i have my own hotmail which ends with a com not co.uk.

Take a photo of the agent if possible and their names as well.

Why are they asking for a deposit straight away which smells very fishy? (Cos landlords usually ask for a reference before they decide to take in a tenant or not.)

cstaff

That does sound a bit dodgy to be honest - I rented a room in my house a few years ago. I met a good few people but picked on the basis of who I thought I would get on with so it is weird that the owner who is meant to be sharing was not there to meet your friend.

I definitely would not be handing over money in advance.

.......

Deaf student wrote: »

Yes it sounded and looked like a scam to me. I have never came across any landlord asking me for a tv Licence fee as it's their cost (cos they owned tv).

Look up a PTSB or register of landlord owners (land registry) at that address that your brother had visited.

Hotmail address sounded very dodgy as i have my own hotmail which ends with a com not co.uk.

Take a photo of the agent if possible and their names as well.

Why are they asking for a deposit straight away which smells very fishy?

Owner occupier renting rooms is not required to register with PRTB.

iamtony

Ok she got back by email and has asked for 575+575+25 for bedding and 40 for TV licence(apologised for saying 50 earlier)
Let her know when money is transferred and she will arrange keys.

davo2001

iamtony wrote: »

Ok she got back by email and has asked for 575+575+25 for bedding and 40 for TV licence(apologised for saying 50 earlier)
Let her know when money is transferred and she will arrange keys.

Still sounds like a scam tbh.

Claw Hammer

The least that should be done is to meet at the property with keys and hand money over at that point. . Ask to see a scan of the TV licence. The real owners name should be on the TV license.

cstaff

Arrange to meet at the property to swap money and keys (and check that the keys are legit) - I definitely wouldn't be handing over any money beforehand. Sorry - but it does sound a bit dodgy.

iamtony

Just had a look through his emails, the back and forth seems genuine, they asked a few questions and gave house rules and everything. The bank details are from Aib in drumcondra. He was emailing the owner and she said someone would meet the next morning.
I tried to look up the register and the link from the ptrb website seems broken, could anyone please provide a working link to this please?
If the name on the property matches the name on the email I think it's OK, since he has actually been inside the property.

spurious

Something sounds very wrong about it to me.

If the agent disappears into the ether you have nothing on her, no office address, just a hotmail address and (presumably?) a mobile phone number.
Anything to tie someone to an actual address? Landline?

What is the name on the account you have to send money to? Have you checked out that name?

NickNickleby

Go back and knock on the door unannounced and see who answers. Try to get some answers that way (are you the owner? who is the owner? do they make you pay for the TV licence? etc).

I know this is somewhat unorthodox and has absolutely no guarantee of success, (would you as a tenant answer these questions to a complete stranger at the door??) but you might get a better feeling about what's going on.

I fully agree with all the suggestions about proper documentation, pay only when keys in hand etc, but prospective tenants are all caught between a rock and a hard place these days, and don't want to alienate prospective landlords, especially if the deal is a good one (usual caveats apply).

When I say 'you' above, I know this is about your brother. So , maybe 'he' was more appropriate. I know how brothers and adult children always welcome unsolicited advice :pac::pac:. Good luck, and , be careful out there! even if she is a pretty girl.

iamtony

spurious wrote: »

Something sounds very wrong about it to me.

If the agent disappears into the ether you have nothing on her, no office address, just a hotmail address and (presumably?) a mobile phone number.
Anything to tie someone to an actual address? Landline?

What is the name on the account you have to send money to? Have you checked out that name?

No name just account number and sort code. Would the bank be able to assist if he went in to them?
What could he the scam here? Someones lives in the house and gave keys to friend before the move out and the property owner know nothing about it?

Deaf student

All emails usually show their IP address. This might be useful to check- it's just 1-2 mins work just to be careful - no harm in doing it.

Link:https://whatismyipaddress.com/


Past experience with emails such as scam ones which i have had before came from outside Ireland. I nearly fell for a rental property in Dublin few years ago until i checked their ip address which came up as a red flag. They were asking me to transfer money to their bank account.I pulled out quick.

NickNickleby

iamtony wrote: »

No name just account number and sort code. Would the bank be able to assist if he went in to them?
What could he the scam here? Someones lives in the house and gave keys to friend before the move out and the property owner know nothing about it?

Wow, hadn't even thought of that myself.

TEll him to say the bank won't do the transfer with out proper account name info. Then ask the bank will the transfer be stopped if a wrong name is given, that might protect the money.

TheChizler

Deaf student wrote: »

All emails usually show their IP address. This might be useful to check- it's just 1-2 mins work just to be careful - no harm in doing it.

Link:https://whatismyipaddress.com/


Past experience with emails such as scam ones which i have had before came from outside Ireland. I nearly fell for a rental property in Dublin few years ago until i checked their ip address which came up as a red flag. They were asking me to transfer money to their bank account.I pulled out quick.

You won't get anything useful out of a hotmail address.

OP if you've actually seen inside the house and they're giving you Irish bank account details for transferring money into I wouldn't personally be worried about a scam. Maybe I'm too trusting. Now maybe it's someone subletting when they're not supposed to. I'd be happy if I saw their ID and maybe saw the owner's name on a bill or something, to confirm the person in the emails was associated with the property.

tuisginideach

Definitely very odd

Deaf student

iamtony wrote: »

No name just account number and sort code. Would the bank be able to assist if he went in to them?
What could he the scam here? Someones lives in the house and gave keys to friend before the move out and the property owner know nothing about it?

No name isn't a very good sign.



Just be careful.Agree with other posters suggestions above.

iamtony

I've got him to email and asked if it was OK to pay the first payment by bank draft and he could deliver it today, sounds like a better plan?

Cockadoodledoo

I think it’s a case of an ex tenant with keys or someone who shouldn’t have keys anyway.

Taking shoes off because someone is unwell in a room would make me run a mile just for that alone? What kind of an illness is it! Jeez!

iamtony

Cockadoodledoo wrote: »

I think it’s a case of an ex tenant with keys or someone who shouldn’t have keys anyway.

Taking shoes off because someone is unwell in a room would make me run a mile just for that alone? What kind of an illness is it! Jeez!

it was because she was in bed unwell and sleeping apparently.

Claw Hammer

iamtony wrote: »

it was because she was in bed unwell and sleeping apparently.

So the smell of feet would help her?

BrokenArrows

OP.

1. Your brother needs to meet the actual landlord. If he is going to live with him then he needs to meet him.

2. Your brother needs to meet the other tenants. If they are going to live together then he needs to meet them.

3. When he meets the landlord get a full name and ask for proof of id.

4. Confirm the bank account details and name of the account.

5. Transfer the money and get the keys in person (dont give cash).

6. Get a receipt.

Thats about the best you can do.

NickNickleby

Removing shoes at the door is either cultural or fastidiousness. The latter would suggest a careful owner.

Still, its not enough to gamble about €1200 on.

The more I read here, the more sceptical I'm becoming. Sorry for sounding negative.

change tack here OP. Work from the starting point that its a scam, then try to prove its not.

Bank draft at the door, and keys in hand? Might prove where the money has gone but no guarantee of getting it back if its a scam. After all, how long after getting keys would it be before finding out?

If this was my son, risking his hard earned money, I'd be ringing alarm bells all over the place - but would still try to get to the bottom of it, in case its genuine despite first impressions.

BrokenArrows

Claw Hammer wrote: »

So the smell of feet would help her?

Its so they wouldnt make noise while walking around the house.

.......

BrokenArrows wrote: »

OP.

1. Your brother needs to meet the actual landlord. If he is going to live with him then he needs to meet him.

2. Your brother needs to meet the other tenants. If they are going to live together then he needs to meet them.

3. When he meets the landlord get a full name and ask for proof of id.

4. Confirm the bank account details and name of the account.

5. Transfer the money and get the keys in person (dont give cash).

6. Get a receipt.

Thats about the best you can do.

+1 to all of the above.

He is hardly going to move into a room in an owner occupier place without having met the owner is he?

Bedding money? Is he not bringing his own duvet/pillows?

NickNickleby

BrokenArrows wrote: »

Its so they wouldnt make noise while walking around the house.

Wow, now this puts quite a complexion on it if you think about it. If someone with no right to be there walks in, they certainly don't want to be noticed.

Did the 'agent' take off her shoes as well?


Ok, no more advice* from me, if this was me I'd be gone now. Broken Arrows 2 posts are better than anything I've said , or even thought of to be honest.

* if it can even be described as such.

iamtony

So the response to would you take a bank draft was yes but it will have to dropped to the person who showed him the house this morning, at their house, in drumcondra and it has to be today as she's going away tomorrow.

I told him to leave it everything is wrong about it. Its tough because he is living in a tourist hostel paying the nightly rate and he is looking for a place for months without any luck.
He is viewing another place tonight, hopefully that goes better.
Thanks everyone for your help, and it really did help, he wasn't believing what I was saying till I read out what you were saying on here so maybe you saved him loosing out on that money so keep up the good work:)

q85dw7osi4lebg

It's a scam.

A PSRA registered property service provider will not have a uk hotmail address.

iamtony

So the last email was asking to meet in person and they came back about 2 hours later saying something came up, room no longer to rent.

afkasurfjunkie

iamtony wrote: »

So the last email was asking to meet in person and they came back about 2 hours later saying something came up, room no longer to rent.

So definitely a scam and quite a creepy one at that.

iamtony

afkasurfjunkie wrote: »

So definitely a scam and quite a creepy one at that.

Sounds like it alright.

tuisginideach

I would alert the website people (if advertised on website)

ShaneC93

Yes, report it to Daft etc (be useful to do a Google of the address in case it is also listed elsewhere) because other people won't be so careful!

iamtony

Funny enough the landlord contacted me yesterday via boards and it's all above board, she had her own reasons she wouldn't go into why the room was no longer available. When we asked to pay by draft she though we were the scammers lol.
Anyway it's terrible the world makes you so suspicious of everyone nowadays.
Turns out the person that showed my brother the property was the landlords mother.

.......

iamtony wrote: »

Funny enough the landlord contacted me yesterday via boards and it's all above board, she had her own reasons she wouldn't go into why the room was no longer available. When we asked to pay by draft she though we were the scammers lol.
Anyway it's terrible the world makes you so suspicious of everyone nowadays.
Turns out the person that showed my brother the property was the landlords mother.

Hopefully this thread shows her how not to go about renting a room!!