home heating audit and improvement plan?

ArrBee

I'll apologize up front for any rambling that's about to follow.
I feel like there are a bunch of things happening with our heating system and idea thoughts and ideas bouncing in my head about how best to go forward and it might not come out as coherently as someone more familiar with plumbing could manage.


I know we've some issues with the heating system, but I can't help think that rather than patch up what is there, some changes would serve us better.

What I really hope for is to find someone who is skilled at assessing current design, troubleshooting current issues, and designing some options to move forward.
Sometimes I get the feeling that heating systems are thrown together in slightly different ways that don't always make sense to a different plumber coming along 10yrs later and trying to work out what was done previously.

Environment:
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-Dorma house is large enough with oil and a boiler about 6m from the house.
-Rads are on 2 circuits there is an oil fire range (no back boiler)
-Wood burner in the sitting room (no back boiler)
-Insulation is decent but there are small drafts that could be improved.
-Pretty sure that the water from boiler to house is NOT insulated under ground.
-Close to 50% of the Rads are turned off at the built in thermostat
-Summer, heating is never on. Winter, would have the 2 zones on at different times for an average of 1hr each per day.
-Rads vary between heating well (giving off loads of heat) to heating poorly.
-I have the impression that we can't run all rads at the same time (not that we would really want to)
-Emersion has a fault which makes it unusable.
-It's a closed heating system.
-house about 10yrs old.
-in the spring we'll be doing some ground works and will tackle the pipe insulation as part of that.


background Issues & thoughts:
============
-Rads don't always get to temp as I would expect. It's like the design of the heating circuit (including the potential lack of pipe insulation) doesn't supply hot enough water to the last rads on the chain. or potentially there are some rads that just don't perform as well and need looking at.

-The pressure in the closed circuit drops and needs topping up frequently.
this started over the summer where it was dropping right down every 2 days (without heating on) and resulted in the plumber flushing a sealant through the system. This sorted it for a while, but now it's back to leaking in a worst case after 2 days (but sometimes 1 week).
I don't get why the time it takes to leak varies. surely there is a clue to the cause in there...
It's been suggested that we change to an open system so we don't have to keep adding water but I am concerned that not dealing with the issue will lead to other trouble. leaking water can't be good!

-something on the boiler keeps tripping and requiring resetting. Some sort of thermal cut out.
Previously it was thought that it was tied to the loss of pressure in the heating system. (no water to circulate caused boiler to trip, makes sense.) but it also trips when there is plenty of pressure. Often we know about it in the morning when there's no hot water!

-heating the hot water, also sends heat to one of the 2 heating circuits...
I don't mind this, but it only started happening after a pressure cylinder thing was replaced a couple years back. It just seems strange that the behavior would change.
Also, got me thinking that it may be possible/desirable to have a system that heated the water tank (maybe get a bigger one) and for the rads to take water from that??





Questions:
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-Is there a way to work out the flow of water through the rads? like what order they go in? is it important?

-whats the best case and worst case if the heating system has a leak that is not addressed. as in a leak that hasn't yet been found (so not currently causing obvious damage) but clearly exists somewhere?

-before doing any work -which would of course need a plumber, are there people who specialize in the type of troubleshooting I am talking about, or is it just a case of "call a plumber"?





Again, Apologies for the length.

Latro

-Pretty sure that the water from boiler to house is NOT insulated under ground.

-I have the impression that we can't run all rads at the same time

You also mentioned that your house is 10 years old therefore I doubt that the pipes in the ground are not insulated. ALL your rads should still get hot regardless of being insulated or not. It is far more likely that you have flow/balancing issues.

Winter, would have the 2 zones on at different times for an average of 1hr each per day.

1h/day I would consider that you don't heat your house at all. I can't imagine your house being anywhere close to warm with that.

ArrBee

Latro wrote: »

You also mentioned that your house is 10 years old therefore I doubt that the pipes in the ground are not insulated. ALL your rads should still get hot regardless of being insulated or not. It is far more likely that you have flow/balancing issues.



1h/day I would consider that you don't heat your house at all. I can't imagine your house being anywhere close to warm with that.

Thanks for the reply.

The reason I think the pipe is not insulated (effectively) is that when it snows, there is a line of melted snow from the boiler to the house.


Depends what you call warm I suppose. the areas that are used are certainly warm with usage described.

agusta

Yes the pipe across the yard are not insulated to any great degree
.First thing first,The leak has to be addressed and sorted.A continuous leak brings in fresh water and oxygen in to the system.this will corrode the boiler and rads from the inside out.A costly fix
Changing the system to open vented is a no go.
The hi-limit trip is probably linked to the leak,air pockets in system due to leak.
a/ find leak and repair
b/ boiler service incl testing hi-limit and thermostat,check circulating pump and balance system

ArrBee

agusta wrote: »

Yes the pipe across the yard are not insulated to any great degree
.First thing first,The leak has to be addressed and sorted.A continuous leak brings in fresh water and oxygen in to the system.this will corrode the boiler and rads from the inside out.A costly fix
Changing the system to open vented is a no go.
The hi-limit trip is probably linked to the leak,air pockets in system due to leak.
a/ find leak and repair
b/ boiler service incl testing hi-limit and thermostat,check circulating pump and balance system

Thanks for taking the time to read and make suggestion.

What you say sounds pretty logical to me. If you don't mind I'd like to understand a little more.

I am guessing that changing to open vented is a no go because the leak is likely to create a worse problem over time.
Are there any other reasons why it wouldn't be a good idea?

Depending on where the leak is, the impact of the leak would range from (at best) an inefficiency with water and heat loss to (at worst) damaging the house in some way. would that be about right?

I've had a plumber describe it as "could be anywhere, too hard to go looking for it." Does it take a special knack to locate a leak which isn't immediately visible?

I guess this all comes back to my original question....
How do I find the right person? It doesn't seem like each plumber is as capable as the next...

agusta

With a leak in a heating system,fresh water has to be added.this bring in oxygen = corrosion.The heating system will corrode from the inside out.If its leaking long enough,this will mean a new boiler plus all new radiators.Expensive,and yet the leak still has to be found before the new boiler is fitted.
Changing to an open vented system will not fix the leak

google "leak detection ireland"

ArrBee

While I appreciate an open system wont fix any leak, will it really contribute to the introduction of oxygen?
I would have assumed that the open system would be constantly topped up and therefore prevent oxygen entering the system.

Yes, I have found a raft of good information after googling the right stuff.

Wearb

ArrBee wrote: »

While I appreciate an open system wont fix any leak, will it really contribute to the introduction of oxygen?
I would have assumed that the open system would be constantly topped up and therefore prevent oxygen entering the system.

Yes, I have found a raft of good information after googling the right stuff.

The oxygen is part of the water ...h2O. This is what does the damage. the oxygen reacts with other metals and impurities and causes oxidization.

As said above, it will eat out susceptible parts of your heating system