Lack of intimacy in marriage

LegacyUser

I've been with my wife for 15 years. I love her very much, and I've never once felt any desire to cheat on her. She has always been my home. My home. That has consistently been the best way to describe her meaning to my life.

Since we moved out of a relative's home and into our own 8 months ago I've felt very lonely. We have very young children and she is always tired. However, she would rather unwind with reading or watching something on her phone than with me. Each night this week I came up and she was too tired. I came up later tonight and she was deep watching something on her phone.

She suffers from clinical anxiety and refuses to ever go out with me on our own because she is worried about the children. The average day is both of us working to ensure the kids are OK, from 6:45 am when they are awoken for crèche until the c. 3-hour-long getting them to bed experience each night (6pm-9pm). Way too long, but again it's not open to discussion. This is usually much longer as she might feel she has to sleep in with the 2-year-old to comfort him so she might not come into our bedroom for hours, if at all. I'm very much a 'Yes' man in all this as I don't want her to lose her temper in front of the children if I question anything. Even still, no matter how much I pull my weight in the home she's always too tired for intimacy.

I, most unfortunately, really need it more than ever now. I just have this hollow existence, where this love and desire I've always felt for this woman is not reciprocated. I am always the one who initiates things. I think I'd actually cry if she came over to hug me or touch me in any loving way. There's a deep emptiness here now, a weight. And I fúcking hate this. She knows I'm not happy with this complete absence of intimacy, but says her priority is the children. It really is an all-or-nothing approach: all for the kids, nothing left for me. Surely most people can reach a balance? She won't listen to any suggestion that we need time together, and I've just gone along with her wishes because I thought I could keep all my own needs sidelined. But I can't any more. The soullessness of it all is welling up inside me.

One night recently, for the very first time in our 15 years together, she asked "Do you want a separation?" and a couple of nights later she asked "Do you want to go and stay in your parents' house tonight?". I put the children to bed, came down and went for a walk for hours upon hours. I was devastated. I never wanted to come back. I just wanted to vanish. I was utterly lost with her suggestion. She rang me frantically, apologising profusely and telling me she called her parents up to look after the children and was driving around the roads looking for me.

I don't want another woman, although I know I'd have little difficulty in finding somebody else. It's not even sex, or sexual release which I can do myself - there's a mechanical emptiness there, too. It's intimacy, personal connection, depth, love that I need. Time together. Time to build and renew 'us' again. She is not giving that to me any more and it is a slow death, one emotionally empty and unfulfilled day after another. We have a lovely home, two secure and well-paid jobs, and neither of us drink, smoke or do any drugs. These should be happy, love-filled days. Life is too short.

Am I expecting too much? Is this what most guys go through with their wife when they've young children and they just harden up? What on earth are my options here?

Wanderer19

Im sorry you going through such a hard time. I can only answer from a womans perspective and thats stress causes a loss of libido, as do some medications. Your both working, have young children and a house to run, it is hard.

Does your wife go out much with her friends, or to a gym, sports activity?

Would your wife consider any of your relatives looking after the children so you could have a 'date'? Even if its a takeaway and dvd, holding hands on the sofa, or a cinema trip?

Imo, your wife asking you if you want to stay in your parents, or if you want a separation is her way of telling you she wants some space. Ask her to clarify why she would think that and ask her if shes the one that wants a separation.
I hope you get things sorted with her x

mikemac2

She brings up seperation and also brings up you staying at your parents

If things go down this road tell her she can be the one to leave the family house

zoobizoo

Hey OP.

It's really hard when couples aren't sleeping and evenings are spent trying to sleep.

We hired a sleep consultant and it has helped us no end. It has out structure on the baby's sleeping times and has given us back our us time in the evenings.

That's one issue that could be dealt with in the short term that could lead to longer term happiness....

As for you as a couple, well that's harder to deal with.

You aren't happy and she's not happy with the status quo.

You don't want to give up but it sounds like she is prepared t9 do that without exploring the options .....


Is it clinical depression she has or anxiety?

LegacyUser

Hi OP,
I could have written your posting 3 years ago. I experienced the same hollow existence and all I wanted was simple acknowledgement such as a hug or even a touch. I manned up, endured it for 10 years in the hope as the children grew older we would find each other again. It wasn't to be. Unknown to me she had found someone else during that time.
Everyone is different but unfortunately if she has asked if you want a separation it indicates she's unhappy too. If she no longer loves you then sadly you will part, my only advice is to confront it now rather than enduring a decade of loneliness waiting for her to return to who she once was. A loveless relationship is not a good environment for children.
You said she suffers anxiety, by any chance is she on medication for this? If so what you are experiencing could well be a side effect of this medication.
whatever you do, don't wait for change, it won't happen... You need to be proactive for change. If thinking of separation then chat with a solicitor first, understand the facts and do not move out of your home. Staying in your home is very very important.

Feets

Sorry to hear it. I do agree with another poster. She can leave the house. No more yes man activity. It isnt working for you.
Did you ever have intimacy or does she just use you as a provider?

mirrorwall14

The three hour bedtime should be your first priority to fix. We slipped into a two hour one with ours without realising how long it was taking and then realised that we were missing each other as we didn’t get our bit of alone together unwinding time after bedtime.

Get a sleep consultant or get involved but that bedtime length has to be shortened

KevinCavan

She doesn’t sound particularly nice and seems to be setting the stage for a separation. Is it possible she has another man on the side?

seamus

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

The three hour bedtime should be your first priority to fix. We slipped into a two hour one with ours without realising how long it was taking and then realised that we were missing each other as we didn’t get our bit of alone together unwinding time after bedtime.

Get a sleep consultant or get involved but that bedtime length has to be shortened

This. It is really easy to find yourself in an insanely long routine that you're unwilling to change so you don't rock the boat.

Realistically you can pull it back and you'll have a week of hell before the child adapts.

I'm not agreeing with other posters here that your wife is not a nice person. It sounds to me like she is taking too much on personally and is unwilling to relinquish control and make room for herself. This is quite a common issue with women when they have children. It's often referred to as the "mental load", and women tend to seize all of the responsibility in a family without remembering they have another person to help them. Then they burn out with overwork.

From her point of view, intimacy is likely something she desires, but it's yet another thing to try and cram into her already overpacked life. So it gets sacrificed because other things are more immediately pressing.
She knows you want intimacy, but cannot see how to fit it in. This just adds another layer of pressure and stress on her. This is likely why she has suggested the separation; she feels the situation is unfair on you and she will get some headspace without having the constant reminder of a sex-starved partner lying beside her.

It sounds like marriage counseling is necessary here, and maybe some 1-on-1 counselling for your wife. This is a problem you need to tackle together. If your wife has too much taken on, then you need to forcibly take some of that burden from her, because she won't give it up voluntarily.

You need to be more vocal in your disagreement. Believe it or not, your continued acquiescence is more stressful for her because she feels like the burden of making the decisions is all down to her. Disagree with her more often, do things without "checking" if they're OK, and this burden will be relieved from her.

If you're generally non-confrontational, like me, then this is difficult, but you can get used to it. You may also feel that by "poking the bear", you are scuppering any hope you had of intimacy that day, but this is not true either unless you actually do something hurtful.

To marriage counseling. It sounds like you're both struggling but still love each other. This is a problem of logistics and nothing more.

Aside, I have to chuckle at the question about whether she has someone on the side. A woman who takes 3 hours to get the kids to bed, doesn't even have time to have an affair with herself, never mind someone else.

zapper55

Very insightful post Seamus.

nikkibikki

Uaigneas1 wrote:

Am I expecting too much? Is this what most guys go through with their wife when they've young children and they just harden up? What on earth are my options here?

No you are 100% not expecting too much. No idea what most guys go through but it's clearly not working for you as it is right now and your feelings are 100% legitimate.

Your post is just heart breaking OP. Even the username you've chosen for yourself. Loneliness. I would absolutely be heartbroken if my husband felt like that about my treatment of him. He's a self confessed bad communicator when it comes to feelings. Recently, we've written each other letters. He said he finds that a bit easier. Can you maybe try write down your feelings as above and ask her to write hers?

zoobizoo wrote:

We hired a sleep consultant and it has helped us no end. It has out structure on the baby's sleeping times and has given us back our us time in the evenings.

Absolutely do this straight away. Best money you'll ever spend. You'll be doing the kids a favour for the rest of their lives as well as yourselves.

I've said this next bit a few times to people with kids and currently have relationship difficulties. If you put 100% into the kids and ignore/neglect the relationship, you are doing the kids a disservice as well. So putting time into keeping the relationship alive is for the kids too.

I really think ye are at the stage where it's time for relationship counselling.

Dial Hard

What was your sex life and general intimacy like before the kids came along?

Yellow pack crisps

OP, I am saying this with the best intentions, you’re standing and watching a car in slow motion coming towards you and although you have time to move, you’re not moving. What action are you taking? None! At least your wife got the ball moving by asking if you want a separation: an equal cry for help I imagine by her regret. She is not handling it well either, but neither are you. Send the kids to the grandparents whom your wife obviously trusts to mind them and in a peaceful environment, talk, put everything out in the open and see where the cards land. She is not being honest, but neither are you. She is hiding, so are you. the fact that you think it’s easy to get sex outside even though you wouldn’t do that is a glimpse into how you’re thinking! Maybe it’s all the rest of the things you said, but sex is a gaping hole that relationships that lack it tend not to
Last too long, you miss sex! I guarantee your wife does too, maybe she is looking at it as a chore now and not an enjoyment. That can only change if one or both of you confront it head on. Best of luck

pwurple

OP, I echo what Séamus has above, and also... 2 full time jobs, and small children is exceptionally hard going. Been there, done that. Have you some household help? People in my parents and grandparents generation often had someone come in to help them with the house when there were small children and both were working in a family business or farm. The workload is simply too huge. 3 hours a night on bedtime is 21 hours a week, that’s another part time job. Add groceries, bill management, appointments for the family (vaccines, checkups, school stuff), cleaning, cooking, maintenance. It’s very likely there is overwork there, it really sounds like burnout. Something has to suffer, and it’s looking like it is your relationship. It sounds like she sees you looking for intimacy as yet another demand on her, when she is already completely overloaded.

What can you do? Can you discuss a cleaner to get laundry and cleaning done, a housekeeper to do dinners, someone looking after odd jobs and the garden. An au pair?

Hang in there, and don’t make any decisions to leave or throw people out. This is the hardest time.

Springfields

You are not expecting too much. You seem perfectly reasonable to me
I'd agree with previous posters. Get the bedtime routine sorted. Look up Lucy Wolfe sleep consultant or buy the book. It works. Make a plan with your wife to tackle it together.
Hire a cleaner once a week. Give her a break from the household stuff and then she should have .more time for ye as a couple.
Also I'd agree a no phones rule in the bedroom. It just makes the other person feel invisible and doesn't help sleep either which can effect mood.
Finally go to bed at the same time. Even if you're not tired. Use the time to chat and reconnect and hopefully intimacy will follow
Sounds like ye both still love each other a lot ye just need to reconnect. Best of luck

zoobizoo

We used Lucy Wolfe.... worth the money.

Two weeks in and baby is falling asleep as soon as pit in cot or within 15 mins.

Best money we spent.

We now have evenings together.

kerryjack

She a bit like my OH wiorking 30 hours a week spending another 30 hours a week talking about it, taking patenting away too seriously and she would feel guilty if she didn't give both 110 percent and an obsession with keeping house absolutely spotless amongst all the chaos. Plenty of love around not .much in the bedroom any more but in other ways , like having someone there that you can rely on.

StinkyMunkey

Organise sitter. Arrange a neutral setting and sit down and talk frankly and honestly.

Ask her if she wants to save your marriage, because you certainly do.

Suggest counselling or therapy, but never give her an ultimatum.

Any relationship takes hard work to keep it on track from both parties.

She is the mother of your children and you love her deeply. Don't let your marriage slip through your fingers.

It may come to pass that you both go your separate ways, but never because you didn't try.

Good luck OP.

Bobtheman

Seamus has the right idea.
Insist on sleep consultant for child
Get that sorted.
Then insist on counselling one to one for her or couples counseling.
These problems developed over years. They won't be instantly solved.
Separation is tramunatic for couples don't rush into. I know couples who came through very tough times
But she must want to change too. Provide a plan. Give her time to think about counselling and sleep consultant. Don't demand a yes or no answer straight away .

Keyzer

I dont mean to sound harsh when I say this but you've allowed your wife to treat you like a doormat and walk all over you.

It sounds like, for the kids routine anyway, its her way or the highway. Her way also sounds ludicrous, it shouldnt take 3 hours every night to put the kids to bed. I had a 2.5 year old who has his moments but goes to bed most night with little fuss. Because we don't make a fuss. Dinner, pyjamas, bottle, bed.

You don't need to be aggresive but you do need to be assertive with your wife. Tell her your booking a night out, dinner, whatever. It sounds like you're going to have to pull her out of this rut she has put herself in.

And as others have said, do not leave the house.

zoobizoo

Keyzer wrote: »

Her way also sounds ludicrous, it shouldnt take 3 hours every night to put the kids to bed. I had a 2.5 year old who has his moments but goes to bed most night with little fuss. Because we don't make a fuss. Dinner, pyjamas, bottle, bed.
.

It's different for different kids.....

I would imagine that it's not the mother who is deciding that she'll spend 2.5 hours putting the child to bed.

Keyzer

zoobizoo wrote: »

It's different for different kids.....

I would imagine that it's not the mother who is deciding that she'll spend 2.5 hours putting the child to bed.

Obviously, they aren't pre-programmed robots.

The point I'm trying to make is you need to be firm with little kids when it comes to sleep time. The sooner they learn how to go asleep themselves the better. Parenting is hard work but couples should have some time in the evenings to spend together.

Facilitating 2-3 hours sessions every night to get kids asleep is utterly ridiculous.

pwurple

Your one 2.5 year old is truly the same as every other child no matter what age?

Mine are pretty good at bedtime now, but there was a time when we had a newborn who was out to bed at 7, and a 3 year old whose bedtime was 8. Between the pre-bedtime feed, nappy change, wash, story, and then start the pjs, teeth, story for the other one, it lasted from 6:30 to 8:30.

kravmaga

Uaigneas1 wrote: »

I've been with my wife for 15 years. I love her very much, and I've never once felt any desire to cheat on her. She has always been my home. My home. That has consistently been the best way to describe her meaning to my life.

Since we moved out of a relative's home and into our own 8 months ago I've felt very lonely. We have very young children and she is always tired. However, she would rather unwind with reading or watching something on her phone than with me. Each night this week I came up and she was too tired. I came up later tonight and she was deep watching something on her phone.

She suffers from clinical anxiety and refuses to ever go out with me on our own because she is worried about the children. The average day is both of us working to ensure the kids are OK, from 6:45 am when they are awoken for crèche until the c. 3-hour-long getting them to bed experience each night (6pm-9pm). Way too long, but again it's not open to discussion. This is usually much longer as she might feel she has to sleep in with the 2-year-old to comfort him so she might not come into our bedroom for hours, if at all. I'm very much a 'Yes' man in all this as I don't want her to lose her temper in front of the children if I question anything. Even still, no matter how much I pull my weight in the home she's always too tired for intimacy.

I, most unfortunately, really need it more than ever now. I just have this hollow existence, where this love and desire I've always felt for this woman is not reciprocated. I am always the one who initiates things. I think I'd actually cry if she came over to hug me or touch me in any loving way. There's a deep emptiness here now, a weight. And I fúcking hate this. She knows I'm not happy with this complete absence of intimacy, but says her priority is the children. It really is an all-or-nothing approach: all for the kids, nothing left for me. Surely most people can reach a balance? She won't listen to any suggestion that we need time together, and I've just gone along with her wishes because I thought I could keep all my own needs sidelined. But I can't any more. The soullessness of it all is welling up inside me.

One night recently, for the very first time in our 15 years together, she asked "Do you want a separation?" and a couple of nights later she asked "Do you want to go and stay in your parents' house tonight?". I put the children to bed, came down and went for a walk for hours upon hours. I was devastated. I never wanted to come back. I just wanted to vanish. I was utterly lost with her suggestion. She rang me frantically, apologising profusely and telling me she called her parents up to look after the children and was driving around the roads looking for me.

I don't want another woman, although I know I'd have little difficulty in finding somebody else. It's not even sex, or sexual release which I can do myself - there's a mechanical emptiness there, too. It's intimacy, personal connection, depth, love that I need. Time together. Time to build and renew 'us' again. She is not giving that to me any more and it is a slow death, one emotionally empty and unfulfilled day after another. We have a lovely home, two secure and well-paid jobs, and neither of us drink, smoke or do any drugs. These should be happy, love-filled days. Life is too short.

Am I expecting too much? Is this what most guys go through with their wife when they've young children and they just harden up? What on earth are my options here?

Right Im going to be very hinest here, It sound like she does not love you and she is a cold person anyways, id file for a divorce and ask her to move out to her parents house, you keep the house and let the court decide on suctody rights of the children.

gar32

There are lots of ways to start working towards happiness here. Take a step back and ask yourself. What do I want? If you want to fix your marriage then that's the path you should try take. To many people split from lake of communication. Find a book or web site to guide you step by step. I am not saying it will be easy but if you are will to put the time and work into to it. Then the worse that could happen is you split but you know in your heart that you tried. I messed up my 1st marriage and my current wife now is not as happy as she could be. I am on the road to finding out the middle ground to move things to a better place. Sometimes you have to man up and sort out the problems.

Good luck OP and know it not you but circumstances which have you where you are.