French court jails mother who kept baby in car boot

JMNolan

https://www.rte.ie/news/europe/2018/1116/1011458-mother-baby-france/

A French court has sentenced a mother who kept her baby hidden in the maggot-infested boot of her car to a five-year jail term, three years of which were suspended

I can't get over it. Two years for this. I felt sick reading this. Only two years in jail. I know it's in France but why don't we protest what happens to children world wide? She kept a baby in a car boot for two years torturing the baby. No outrage and only got two years in jail, I can't understand it

margo321

Hard to understand how people are. poor child and so many sad stories out there.

Spanish Eyes

Children have been killed, tortured, burned, strangled, sexually abused etc. and that is just in Ireland.

The parents deserve a custodial sentence, but also require psychiatric help. Who can access that on demand these days either.

Very sad case. But much worse has happened on our own turf.

fritzelly

Whilst an horrifying story I'm thinking some kind of post natal depression, lack of bonding etc - quick to judge based on a very short news report
Tho how the hell the partner didn't know is beyond me!

JMNolan

fritzelly wrote: »

Whilst an horrifying story I'm thinking some kind of post natal depression, lack of bonding etc - quick to judge based on a very short news report
Tho how the hell the partner didn't know is beyond me!

I don't understand? You're blaming the partner??He was a victim in this too.

mammajamma

Theres the idea that the world only seems worse because we hear so much more now via the ever-lovely internet.

Taking that into account, I still think the world is going down the tubes.

fritzelly

JMNolan wrote: »

I don't understand? You're blaming the partner??He was a victim in this too.

Did I say he was also responsible but how did he not realise his partner was pregnant, didn't give birth to a child and never checked the boot of the car and so on...
Keeping a baby hidden in the boot of a car for 2 years beggars belief. Lots of questions.

Edit
Doesn't say she was kept in the boot for two years, only discovered there - so where was she kept?

Graces7

fritzelly wrote: »

Did I say he was also responsible but how did he not realise his partner was pregnant, didn't give birth to a child and never checked the boot of the car and so on...
Keeping a baby hidden in the boot of a car for 2 years beggars belief. Lots of questions.

Edit
Doesn't say she was kept in the boot for two years, only discovered there - so where was she kept?

The report said in an unused room, Child now aged 7 and with irreversible autism due to her treatment.

Odd thing is that the three older children have been examined and pronounced as perfectly raised.

paleoperson

Jesus, I remember someone being jailed for keeping a dog in a trunk... a human baby?!

padser

fritzelly wrote: »

Whilst an horrifying story I'm thinking some kind of post natal depression, lack of bonding etc - quick to judge based on a very short news report
Tho how the hell the partner didn't know is beyond me!

If it was a father who did this - I doubt you would make excuses about his mental state.

Actually let me just make sure I get this right, a woman keeps a child in the boot - and the only person you are critical of is the man - who we don't even know if he is alive, knows he has a child etc.

Sign of the times.....

JazzJaquzzi

padser wrote: »

If it was a father who did this - I doubt you would make excuses about his mental state.

Actually let me just make sure I get this right, a woman keeps a child in the boot - and the only person you are critical of is the man - who we don't even know if he is alive, knows he has a child etc.

Sign of the times.....

In fairness, it doesn't seem at all that the poster was being critical of the man. It's merely surprising that somebody could keep a pregnancy, a birth, and a two year old baby as a secret from their partner. Think your post is more of a "sign of the times"..

JMNolan

JazzJaquzzi wrote: »

In fairness, it doesn't seem at all that the poster was being critical of the man. It's merely surprising that somebody could keep a pregnancy, a birth, and a two year old baby as a secret from their partner. Think your post is more of a "sign of the times"..

I read it very much as that poster only being critical of the man and completely absolving the woman who tortured a baby for two years

JazzJaquzzi

JMNolan wrote: »

I read it very much as that poster only being critical of the man and completely absolving the woman who tortured a baby for two years

Ah, that's a bit extreme. The poster did say that this was a horrifying story. There were two points. Point 1 -> how could this happen. Point 2 -> surprise that the partner never noticed. Neither point is unreasonable.

Anyway, that poor child. That's the real point.

Mountainsandh

JMNolan wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/europe/2018/1116/1011458-mother-baby-france/

I can't get over it. Two years for this. I felt sick reading this. Only two years in jail. I know it's in France but why don't we protest what happens to children world wide? She kept a baby in a car boot for two years torturing the baby. No outrage and only got two years in jail, I can't understand it

I've boldened the bit I disagree with in your post. French people were outraged and heartbroken this could happen to a child.

https://www.lemonde.fr/police-justice/article/2018/11/16/huit-ans-de-prison-requis-contre-la-mere-de-serena-cachee-dans-un-coffre-de-voiture-pendant-deux-ans_5384406_1653578.html

Auparavant, les parties civiles avaient, comme Me Rodolphe Costantino pour l’association Enfance et partage, appelé à ne pas « psychologiser le débat à outrance », comme on peut être tenté de le faire pour comprendre « comment une mère peut-elle faire ça ».

« Il y a une seule victime, pas deux »
« Déni de grossesse », « dénégation d’enfant », « incapacité parentale »… Pendant cinq jours de procès, des experts, parfois s’opposant, ont exploré les mécanismes, les clés psychiques qui ont conduit l’accusée à un rare cas de dissimulation prolongée. « Si on fait cette place hors normes à la psyché, nous ne poursuivrons plus personne. Les parents qui maltraitent leurs enfants ne devraient-ils pas avoir leur place en justice ? », s’est emporté Me Constantino.

« Il y a une seule victime, pas deux, et c’est Séréna », avait tonné, mercredi, Me Isabelle Faure-Roche, avocate de l’Aide sociale à l’enfance (ASE) de la Corrèze, organisme administrateur ad hoc de Séréna, aujourd’hui âgée de 7 ans et qui vit en famille d’accueil depuis cinq ans.

« La seule qui soit cassée, brisée à tout jamais, c’est Séréna » dont « la vie ne sera jamais notre vie, le monde ne sera jamais notre monde », a-t-elle insisté. Elle s’est aussi agacée de voir la famille de l’accusée venir à la barre « pleurer non pas pour Séréna, sur Séréna, mais pleurer pour sa mère ». Pour l’avocat général : « Si elle est séparée de ses enfants, ce ne sera pas votre responsabilité (…) mais celle de Mme Da Cruz uniquement. »

Bad google translation but I'm too lazy to translate myself :

Previously, the civil parties had, like Me Rodolphe Costantino for the association Childhood and sharing, called not to "psychologize the debate to excess", as one might be tempted to do to understand "how a mother can she do that ".

"There is only one victim, not two"
"Denial of pregnancy", "denial of child", "parental incapacity" ... During five days of trial, experts, sometimes opposing, explored the mechanisms, the psychic keys that led the accused to a rare case prolonged concealment. "If we make this out-of-the-ordinary place in the psyche, we will not chase anyone. Should parents who mistreat their children not have their place in court? "Carried off Mr. Constantino.

"There is only one victim, not two, and this is Séréna," thundered on Wednesday, Ms. Isabelle Faure-Roche, advocate for child welfare (ASE) Corrèze, ad hoc administrator body Serena, now 7 years old and living with a host family for five years.

"The only one that is broken, broken forever, is Séréna" whose "life will never be our life, the world will never be our world," she insisted. She was also annoyed to see the family of the accused come to the bar "cry not for Serena, Serena, but cry for his mother." For the Advocate General: "If she is separated from her children, it will not be your responsibility (...) but that of Ms. Da Cruz only. "

It's a good and a bad thing that we live in an age when we always try to understand the reasons why something happened. As a result in terms of justice some sanctions may seem too lenient.

I agree, they should really have overlooked all the psychological issues BS here, and sanctioned more harshly, then again, what difference would it make to Serena's life at this stage ? And with psychological issues like that, a precedent of a harsh sentence is not very likely to have an impact on potential/future offenders either.

Church on Tuesday

fritzelly wrote: »

Whilst an horrifying story I'm thinking some kind of post natal depression, lack of bonding etc - quick to judge based on a very short news report
Tho how the hell the partner didn't know is beyond me!

Post natal depression is no excuse for this.

lawred2

The other three were perfectly raised

Seems unlikely

Immortal Starlight

What a horrible evil woman. Absolutely disgusting.

Graces7

lawred2 wrote: »

The other three were perfectly raised

Seems unlikely

Read the report; they checked them carefully of course.

Graces7

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

Post natal depression is no excuse for this.

Interesting comment. Have you ever had pnd or seen it in action? A woman totally overwhelmed by her hormones?

Not an excuse; a cause

How though did she manage to hide the baby? Did the authorities know?

eviltwin

Graces7 wrote: »

Interesting comment. Have you ever had pnd or seen it in action? A woman totally overwhelmed by her hormones?

Not an excuse; a cause

How though did she manage to hide the baby? Did the authorities know?

It's a lot more serious than just a woman with hormonal issues. If it were that simple a few injections to balance things out and she'd be as right as rain.

Graces7

eviltwin wrote: »

It's a lot more serious than just a woman with hormonal issues. If it were that simple a few injections to balance things out and she'd be as right as rain.

Interesting idea. Given no one apparently knew. and pnd is not as simple as that

EdgeCase

mammajamma wrote: »

Theres the idea that the world only seems worse because we hear so much more now via the ever-lovely internet.

Taking that into account, I still think the world is going down the tubes.

When you look back at history, a lot of horrible things went on and in many cases they were accepted by society and were even legal.

I think we've really improved in terms of not abuses to the level we used to.

An absolutely awful case though.

Church on Tuesday

Graces7 wrote: »

Interesting comment. Have you ever had pnd or seen it in action? A woman totally overwhelmed by her hormones?

Not an excuse; a cause

How though did she manage to hide the baby? Did the authorities know?

No, I'm a man.

No, I haven't witnessed it.

I respect the fact that post natal depression is a very real condition and must be horrific for a mother.

It's still no excuse though, the woman is plainly evil and TBH it's actually insulting to genuine women who suffer from the condition to excuse this scumbags actions with it.

Spanish Eyes

Mental Health issues solved with an injection on the spot. Right.

If the person suffering will not seek help what happens? Yep this kind of atrocity in extreme circumstances. Many people in this fair land have killed their children and often their partner/spouse together with themselves too.

I am not saying that everyone suffering MH issues will do this kind of thing. But some do.

EdgeCase

Hopefully with the right care and attention from foster parents the baby pulls through and recovers.

Gimme A Pound

JMNolan wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/europe/2018/1116/1011458-mother-baby-france/



I can't get over it. Two years for this. I felt sick reading this. Only two years in jail. I know it's in France but why don't we protest what happens to children world wide? She kept a baby in a car boot for two years torturing the baby. No outrage and only got two years in jail, I can't understand it

Unlikely to be no outrage. France is a country where people do voice their anger. I genuinely don't mean to seem hostile but why are you asking about other people not protesting? What are you doing yourself?

fritzelly wrote: »

Whilst an horrifying story I'm thinking some kind of post natal depression, lack of bonding etc - quick to judge based on a very short news report

I'm quick to judge based on child abuse.

The child's father might be estranged.

ceadaoin.

I've read similar stories from France before. Babies bodies being found in freezers after their births being hidden and stuff like that. Why does this type of child abuse/ murder seem to be more common there?

EdgeCase

ceadaoin. wrote: »

I've read similar stories from France before. Babies bodies being found in freezers after their births being hidden and stuff like that. Why does this type of child abuse/ murder seem to be more common there?

I don't think it's unique to France, I mean we've had babies abandoned in bags and far worse over the years in Ireland and then you've the absolutely stomach churning legacy of what went on in some of the institutions that is really off the scale.

France has a population of 67 million, so you're inevitably going to get some sad and disturbing cases like this.