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Summons for licence out of date

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  • 16-11-2018 10:56pm
    #1
    mirwillbeback
    Registered Users Posts: 2,004 ✭✭✭


    Hi,

    Coming home tonight and was stopped by gardai.

    Tax, insurance, breathalysed all passed fine.

    However, my licence was out of date since July, I had no idea that it was expired. Tried to explain politely that I didn't realise and this absolute wanker of a guard made it seem like I'd committed the crime of the century.

    Outcome of it all is he says I'll receive a summon for court and may be disqualified? Does that not seem a bit harsh for a genuine mistake?

    Anyone else on here been through this?

    Any advice welcome, do I need a solicitor or what should I expect....


«1

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    #2
    frozenfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 7,882 ✭✭✭frozenfrozen


    book into the NDLS centre and renew your license in the morning, go to the station and ask to speak to the guard who stopped you and show the paper work stating you have renewed and try to get it dropped

    after that its legal advice and I'd have no idea what to say/do


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    #3
    terrydel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,881 ✭✭✭terrydel


    Become a guard and get a colleague to quash it, they look after their own.


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    #4
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    You won't be disqualified for a first offence.

    As said above, go get your licence renewed, speak to the Garda and he may drop it.

    If you do get a summons, having a solicitor there is worth the money it'll cost, you explain to the judge that the licence had expired and you hadn't realised, show him your licence has long-since been renewed, and the judge will likely throw it out.


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    #5
    bladespin
    Registered Users Posts: 7,341 ✭✭✭bladespin


    terrydel wrote: »
    Become a guard and get a colleague to quash it, they look after their own.

    not so likely now


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    #6
    CharlieCroker
    Registered Users Posts: 8,451 ✭✭✭CharlieCroker


    mirwillbeback wrote: »
    Hi,

    Coming home tonight and was stopped by gardai.

    Tax, insurance, breathalysed all passed fine.

    However, my licence was out of date since July, I had no idea that it was expired. Tried to explain politely that I didn't realise and this absolute wanker of a guard made it seem like I'd committed the crime of the century.

    Outcome of it all is he says I'll receive a summon for court and may be disqualified? Does that not seem a bit harsh for a genuine mistake?

    Anyone else on here been through this?

    Any advice welcome, do I need a solicitor or what should I expect....

    Is it a full licence or a learner permit.

    Not sure why the guard is a wanker because you let your licence lapse?


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    #7
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,501 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    mirwillbeback wrote: »
    this absolute wanker of a guard made it seem like I'd committed the crime of the century.

    Hope they don't read boards, there can't be that many bikers pulled over with a licence expired since July on any given day...

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #8
    jimgoose
    Registered Users Posts: 20,178 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    As far as I'm aware, Section 38(2)(a)(i) of the Road Traffic Act as amended in 2006 states that the penalty in this case is a fine "not exceeding €1,000". No mention of disqualification.


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    #9
    emo72
    Registered Users Posts: 6,261 ✭✭✭emo72


    Loads of us checking our licences now. Seems a bit extreme in fairness. And I don't know why NDLS don't send a reminder when it's getting close to expiry. No problem sending you notice when your tax is nearly out either! I don't pull out my licence from one year till the next.


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    #10
    Mango Joe
    Registered Users Posts: 1,179 ✭✭✭Mango Joe


    Wow! Very well done Garda, its little bureaucratic details like this license being slightly out of date that we need to clamp down on urgently.

    You'd swear the Gardai's detection rate for actual real crimes wasn't a complete embarrassment and they weren't involved in a new corruption scandal every second month.


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    #11
    Auguste Comte
    Registered Users Posts: 1,143 ✭✭✭Auguste Comte


    mirwillbeback wrote: »
    Hi,

    Coming home tonight and was stopped by gardai.

    Tax, insurance, breathalysed all passed fine.

    However, my licence was out of date since July, I had no idea that it was expired. Tried to explain politely that I didn't realise and this absolute wanker of a guard made it seem like I'd committed the crime of the century.

    Outcome of it all is he says I'll receive a summon for court and may be disqualified? Does that not seem a bit harsh for a genuine mistake?

    Anyone else on here been through this?

    Any advice welcome, do I need a solicitor or what should I expect....

    This happened to me a few years ago, I was fined €5 and told it would be cheaper to get a diary in the future then the judge made a snide remark to the guard about suummonsing me in the first place.

    I wouldn't stress over this, as road traffic offences go having a license a little out of date is as minor as it gets.


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    #12
    mamax
    Registered Users Posts: 879 ✭✭✭mamax


    emo72 wrote: »
    And I don't know why NDLS don't send a reminder when it's getting close to expiry.

    Apparently they do http://www.rsa.ie/en/Utility/News/2015/DRIVERS-URGED-TO-CHECK-THEIR-LICENCES-HAVE-NOT-EXPIRED/

    Another thing to keep in mind is if a person does not have a valid driving permit (expired or otherwise) your insurance company may refuse to pay out on a claim against you if you were in an accident.


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    #13
    Turner
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,932 Mod ✭✭✭✭Turner


    mirwillbeback wrote: »
    Hi,

    Coming home tonight and was stopped by gardai.

    Tax, insurance, breathalysed all passed fine.

    However, my licence was out of date since July, I had no idea that it was expired. Tried to explain politely that I didn't realise and this absolute wanker of a guard made it seem like I'd committed the crime of the century.

    Outcome of it all is he says I'll receive a summon for court and may be disqualified? Does that not seem a bit harsh for a genuine mistake?

    Anyone else on here been through this?

    Any advice welcome, do I need a solicitor or what should I expect....


    What was the reason they stopped you?


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    #14
    Effects
    Registered Users Posts: 9,760 ✭✭✭Effects


    Mango Joe wrote: »
    Wow! Very well done Garda, its little bureaucratic details like this license being slightly out of date that we need to clamp down on urgently.
    You'd swear the Gardai's detection rate for actual real crimes wasn't a complete embarrassment and they weren't involved in a new corruption scandal every second month.

    So you accuse him of not doing his job properly in relation to crime detection, while also wanting him to not do his job properly during a traffic stop?


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    #15
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,275 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    Effects wrote: »
    So you accuse him of not doing his job properly in relation to crime detection, while also wanting him to not do his job properly during a traffic stop?

    Don’t even...


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    #16
    emo72
    Registered Users Posts: 6,261 ✭✭✭emo72


    Effects wrote: »
    So you accuse him of not doing his job properly in relation to crime detection, while also wanting him to not do his job properly during a traffic stop?

    Fer fecks sake.


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    #17
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,766 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    mamax wrote: »
    Apparently they do http://www.rsa.ie/en/Utility/News/2015/DRIVERS-URGED-TO-CHECK-THEIR-LICENCES-HAVE-NOT-EXPIRED/

    Another thing to keep in mind is if a person does not have a valid driving permit (expired or otherwise) your insurance company may refuse to pay out on a claim against you if you were in an accident.

    NDLS do issue reminders.

    Your 2nd comment is incorrect: once issued and Cert in place, the cover is intact and they cannot refuse to pay out. What they can - and will do - is sue you afterwards to recoup whatever it is they paid out on your behalf. What that does mean is you can't be prosecuted for no insurance on foot of your lapsed licence.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #18
    Effects
    Registered Users Posts: 9,760 ✭✭✭Effects


    endacl wrote: »
    Don’t even...

    I already did.


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    #19
    jimgoose
    Registered Users Posts: 20,178 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    galwaytt wrote: »
    ...What they can - and will do - is sue you afterwards to recoup whatever it is they paid out on your behalf...

    Do they actually take that view of lapsed licenses, though? My insurance cert has this to say:


    Drivers, or Classes of Drivers, whose driving is covered

    (a) The Insured.
    (b) Concita Araminta Iseult Beowulf Culloden Plantagenet-Goose

    Provided that the person driving holds a licence to drive such vehicle or, having held such a licence, is not disqualified from holding such a licence.


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    #20
    GBX
    Registered Users Posts: 11,942 ✭✭✭✭GBX


    Mine is not due for renewal till 2021.

    Looking now, they amount of hoops you have to jump through to get it renewed is mad. A public service card first, which you need an appointment for ... which for some reason you need to bring one of the following :

    You will need to provide evidence of the following:

    Evidence of identity
    People not born in Ireland will need to bring an official government ID such as a Passport or National ID card.

    Evidence of Address
    You will need to bring with you an evidence of Address with your name on it. Such as a household utility bill, an official letter/document or a financial statement not more than 3 months old.

    Mobile Phone
    If possible please bring with you your mobile phone.     - Why? So you can take a selfie with them :rolleyes:

    The govt departments love doing things longwinded and arséways.


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    #21
    Effects
    Registered Users Posts: 9,760 ✭✭✭Effects


    You don't need a public service card if you go to the NDLS office yourself.
    GBX wrote: »
    Mobile Phone
    If possible please bring with you your mobile phone.     - Why? So you can take a selfie with them :rolleyes:

    Possibly so they can just link your phone to your records, so that they can contact you easier. You know, to remind you that your licence is due to expire.


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    #22
    GBX
    Registered Users Posts: 11,942 ✭✭✭✭GBX


    Effects wrote: »
    You don't need a public service card if you go to the NDLS office yourself.

    .

    Yeah but to renew online you have to get a psc first, which requires an appointment first.


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    #23
    KT10
    Registered Users Posts: 229 ✭✭KT10


    GBX wrote: »
    Mobile Phone
    If possible please bring with you your mobile phone.     - Why? So you can take a selfie with them :rolleyes:

    They use a form of 2FA nowadays, they take your mobile phone number, immediately send a PIN to it which you need to type into the keypad in front of you confirm your identity.


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    #24
    Effects
    Registered Users Posts: 9,760 ✭✭✭Effects


    So it just means you need to show yourself in person, to prove who you are, in order to get an important document. It's not that big a deal, is it?


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    #25
    pinktoe
    Registered Users Posts: 223 ✭✭pinktoe


    Mango Joe wrote: »
    Wow! Very well done Garda, its little bureaucratic details like this license being slightly out of date that we need to clamp down on urgently.

    You'd swear the Gardai's detection rate for actual real crimes wasn't a complete embarrassment and they weren't involved in a new corruption scandal every second month.

    As soon as your license expires you become an unidentifiable object who loses the ability to drive.

    Oh logic


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    #26
    Effects
    Registered Users Posts: 9,760 ✭✭✭Effects


    pinktoe wrote: »
    As soon as your license expires you become an unidentifiable object who loses the ability to drive.

    Oh logic

    Sure why even bother with a licence if you know how to drive?


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    #27
    jimgoose
    Registered Users Posts: 20,178 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    pinktoe wrote: »
    As soon as your license expires you become an unidentifiable object who loses the ability to drive.

    Oh logic

    I don't think the OP or anyone else would argue that you don't need a proper, current driver's license in order to drive. The interesting question here is what is the typical punishment meted out for having one that's expired a few months, and somewhat tangentially but importantly, what view would your insurance company take of it.


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    #28
    mamax
    Registered Users Posts: 879 ✭✭✭mamax


    galwaytt wrote: »
    Your 2nd comment is incorrect: once issued and Cert in place, the cover is intact and they cannot refuse to pay out. What they can - and will do - is sue you afterwards to recoup whatever it is they paid out on your behalf. What that does mean is you can't be prosecuted for no insurance on foot of your lapsed licence.

    As far as I was aware and as posted by jimgoose you are only covered by insurance if you have a valid driving licence/permit but I'm open to correction
    btw this is not off topic as it would be relevant to the op if the garda were to try prosecute him for no licence/insurance ie operating a motor vehicle in a public place without licence/insurance


    jimgoose wrote: »
    Do they actually take that view of lapsed licenses, though? My insurance cert has this to say:


    Drivers, or Classes of Drivers, whose driving is covered

    (a) The Insured.
    (b) Concita Araminta Iseult Beowulf Culloden Plantagenet-Goose

    Provided that the person driving holds a licence to drive such vehicle or, having held such a licence, is not disqualified from holding such a licence.


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    #29
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,501 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    It's there in black and white. If you lose your licence through disqualification, you're not insured. If you just forget to renew it, you are.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #30
    IrishGrimReaper
    Registered Users Posts: 1,026 ✭✭✭IrishGrimReaper


    The Insurer will have to pay third party claims with no exceptions. But they will sue you for it back or whatever they can get off you if there's any grounds whatsoever where the fine print can be used to screw you, of which having an expired license at the time of an accident would be one.

    Most of us insured through Carole Nash/Principle are with UK Insurers. I just checked my own policy schedule and mine is placed with ageas insurance - Just a quick look on google and I can safely say if there's a legal way for them to get out of paying a claim(you claming off your own Insurance for example after a theft), or sueing you back after they pay third party claims they 100% will.

    Having your license lapse sucks, but it was out for over 3 months and you should've caught on sooner.

    Edit: Spoke to someone who used to work in Zurich motor claims and this happened quite a bit. They would pay the claim and didn't take into account the expired license as long it wasn't due to a disqualification or conviction.


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    #31
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,501 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Wrong, it's already been posted above, they even highlighted it in bold. It says your driving is covered provided you have held a licence and are not disqualified. This is a standard wording in policies.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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