is a teacher allowed to ban you from going to the toilet

KateMallon90

Hi guys, so I have this Irish teacher and I’ve only had her this year and I’ve got the impression she doesn’t like me. I’m a good student and I like the subject however I notice that she keeps picking on me. I’ve gone to the toilet about 3/4 this year not much . During class time on Monday the class was nosy and I desperately needed to go to the toilet and when I put up my hand and asked the teacher said “This is a disruption to my class, you’re always going to the bathroom during my class. From now on I’m not allowing you to go to the toilet in my class unless you bring in a doctors note saying you have a serious medical condition that requires you to go to the bathroom very often”. The class was nosy I wasn’t disrupting it? And I have a small bladder and I can’t help when I need to go? Is this legal , I always assumed it was a human right to be allowed to go to the toilet not a privilege. Is a teacher allowed to do this? I’m a leaving cert student being treated like a first year? If I got my parent to make a complaint would I have a leg to stand on or does she have the right to ban me from going to the bathroom?

spurious

There are bigger battles in life, really.

Your class were acting the goat and you chose that moment to want to go to the toilet? I pity your teacher already for having to try and teach Irish, but then to have to battle with almost 18 yr olds to behave?

If you have a small bladder go to the doctor and get a note. Problem solved.

What is the school policy?

iamwhoiam

How do you know you have a small bladder ? Is it diagnosed by a consultant ?

Alrigghtythen

Did you go before the lesson? If you know you have a small bladder, you should use the facilities between lessons.


Noise doesn't mean the lesson can't be disrupted. Oral irish can be noisy.

happywithlife

you see you loose all credibility imo when as a LC student you resort to phrases like
"she doesn't like me/keeps picking on me/is this legal/I can't help it"
-teachers don't have to like you. respect you/treat you with dignity yes. like you - not necessarily
-picking is a subjective thing & you didn't give further examples so can't comment really
-legal? hmm...are you prevented from going to the toilet ALL the time? is there school policy/guidlines on this? In my school its go before 1st class during either break or after school. that's 4 opportunities in the average 7 hr school day. Not even a 2 stretch - unless you have a medical diagnosis it should be adequately sufficient
-you may be able to help it if you go at designated times and be mindful of excessive fluid intake

my advice as a teacher is learn some self control & responsibilty. Mature a little more. And concentrate on your studies not wether a "ban" on going to the toilet is "legal" or not

bfa1509

spurious wrote: »

There are bigger battles in life, really.

Your class were acting the goat and you chose that moment to want to go to the toilet? I pity your teacher already for having to try and teach Irish, but then to have to battle with almost 18 yr olds to behave?

If you have a small bladder go to the doctor and get a note. Problem solved.

What is the school policy?

iamwhoiam wrote: »

How do you know you have a small bladder ? Is it diagnosed by a consultant ?

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

Did you go before the lesson? If you know you have a small bladder, you should use the facilities between lessons.


Noise doesn't mean the lesson can't be disrupted. Oral irish can be noisy.

You are all being completely narrowminded and unfair. Everyone has different bathroom habits and to have this questioned in the middle of the class by the teacher, in my opinion, is tantamount to abuse. This is far more serious than most of the trivial things that teachers get into trouble over.

To the op, I really feel for you. I was in a similar situation myself. I had a teacher in second class who refused to let us go to the bathroom until it was lunchtime or after school. I swear if I ever met her now, 20 years later, she would be getting an earful from me for her disgusting behaviour.

I would talk to someone about this, a parent or another teacher you get along with. It sounds like the teacher has no control over the class. I think the best thing you could hope for is to move to a different class if there is one.

iamwhoiam

bfa1509 wrote: »

You are all being completely narrowminded and unfair. Everyone has different bathroom habits and to have this questioned in the middle of the class by the teacher, in my opinion, is tantamount to abuse. This is far more serious than most of the trivial things that teachers get into trouble over.

To the op, I really feel for you. I was in a similar situation myself. I had a teacher in second class who refused to let us go to the bathroom until it was lunchtime or after school. I swear if I ever met her now, 20 years later, she would be getting an earful from me for her disgusting behaviour.

I would talk to someone about this, a parent or another teacher you get along with. It sounds like the teacher has no control over the class. I think the best thing you could hope for is to move to a different class if there is one.

Actually I am not being narrow minded . I asked a simple question to gain more knowledge . If the OP has a medical problem then she can get a letter from her consulant

evolving_doors

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Actually I am not being narrow minded . I asked a simple question to gain more knowledge . If the OP has a medical problem then she can get a letter from her consulant

I'd go a step further and say

NO

a teacher can't refuse you to use the toilet. I can't think of any situation ever where someone is refused by someone else (high security prisoner in transit maybe!)

If you gotta go you gotta go.
Being told that you should 'learn some self control' or 'get a doctors note' is besides the point and not pertinent to the predicament the OP has found themselves in at that particular moment in time. You gotta go you gotta go.

I would however ask a student 'can you wait maybe'? and judge it from there. Then after a few minutes when the class have forgotten about the request I;d give the nod for the student to go while people's heads are down doing something.

But for a quiet life get your mother to write a note saying that you may need to use the bathroom at short notice. If they ask for a doctor's note tell them to contact your parents if they want to refuse your mother's request.
Your medical file is none of their business and a teacher isn't in any qualified position to assess a medical note.

Teacher just sounded frazzled in a noisy class.

Teachers have bladders made of lead.

Sardonicat

iamwhoiam wrote: »

bfa1509 wrote: »

You are all being completely narrowminded and unfair. Everyone has different bathroom habits and to have this questioned in the middle of the class by the teacher, in my opinion, is tantamount to abuse. This is far more serious than most of the trivial things that teachers get into trouble over.

To the op, I really feel for you. I was in a similar situation myself. I had a teacher in second class who refused to let us go to the bathroom until it was lunchtime or after school. I swear if I ever met her now, 20 years later, she would be getting an earful from me for her disgusting behaviour.

I would talk to someone about this, a parent or another teacher you get along with. It sounds like the teacher has no control over the class. I think the best thing you could hope for is to move to a different class if there is one.

Actually I am not being narrow minded . I asked a simple question to gain more knowledge . If the OP has a medical problem then she can get a letter from her consulant

Do female students require a Doctor's letter explaining that menstruation can happen unexpectedly? Or is it alright to allow a teenage girl to bleed all over herself for the sake of not disrupting a class. 6th year students having to put up their hand and ask permission to answer a call of nature is demeaning and utterly ridiculous.

Pelvis

spurious wrote: »

There are bigger battles in life, really.

Your class were acting the goat and you chose that moment to want to go to the toilet? I pity your teacher already for having to try and teach Irish, but then to have to battle with almost 18 yr olds to behave?

If you have a small bladder go to the doctor and get a note. Problem solved.

What is the school policy?

Bizarre response. What has the behaviour of the other students got to do with anything? What does it matter what subject the teacher is teaching? There's no reason to deny someone asking to go to the toilet, and there's certainly no excuse for the teachers outburst.

rainbowtrout

Pelvis wrote: »

Bizarre response. What has the behaviour of the other students got to do with anything? What does it matter what subject the teacher is teaching? There's no reason to deny someone asking to go to the toilet, and there's certainly no excuse for the teachers outburst.

Because an awful lot of the time students ask to go out to the toilet just to doss for a few minutes and once one asks, then there is a stream of requests and the classroom becomes like a train station where there are people constantly going in and out.

Typically students have to go no longer than 2 hours at a time without a break. Any student that has a bit of cop will run to the toilet between classes if they really need to go. Nine times out of ten if they are told 'can you wait 5 mins... until I finish explaining this question' they forget all about it and don't ask again. And plenty of times its the same four or five students who ask in every class you have them for, and if you check with another teacher, they're at the same craic in other classes.

We are trying to get subjects taught, not deal with constant disruptions the whole time.

iamwhoiam

Sardonicat wrote: »

Do female students require a Doctor's letter explaining that menstruation can happen unexpectedly? Or is it alright to allow a teenage girl to bleed all over herself for the sake of not disrupting a class. 6th year students having to put up their hand and ask permission to answer a call of nature is demeaning and utterly ridiculous.

Look , the OP was upset and if she has a medical problem I was trying to be helpful . I have nursed kids with renal and urinary problem and thought perhaps she needed some support .

tritriagain

If you really need to go and you are not let get up and go anyhow. Nothing will be done except maybe the teacher reprimanded for not letting you go in the first place. It happened me in school and my exact words to the principal were ," it was the lesser of two evils could you imagine the trouble I'd be in if I pissed on the floor". He laughed and said fair enough.

seamus

tritriagain wrote: »

If you really need to go and you are not let get up and go anyhow. Nothing will be done except maybe the teacher reprimanded for not letting you go in the first place. It happened me in school and my exact words to the principal were ," it was the lesser of two evils could you imagine the trouble I'd be in if I pissed on the floor". He laughed and said fair enough.

This.

The teacher can say, "I'm banning you from going to the toilet", but they can't physically stop you from standing up and going out to the toilet.

For the OP, I would suggest that having gone to the toilet 3 or 4 times in this teacher's class this year alone, is probably pretty exceptional. Try and get into the habit of going to the toilet at the end of breaks whether you need to go or not.

If you move rooms between classes, this is also a good time to go.

witchgirl26

OP I can sympathise with you a bit - when I was in 5th/6th year I had a problem which led me having to drink lots of water which led to the obvious. However it was up to me to pop to the loo between classes and only go during in absolutely exceptional circumstances. I would think 3/4 times in her class may seem like nothing to you but it's only November so not like a full year. Also you probably picked the worst moment to ask considering the whole class was acting up and she was trying to regain control (I'm assuming).

Maybe have a chat to the teacher - apologise if she thought you were purposely disrupting the class, explain that you have a small bladder but that you'll try to go before her class in future. However you'd appreciate if she understood this wasn't always possible. It shows a level of maturity in that you understand her position.

KateMallon90

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Because an awful lot of the time students ask to go out to the toilet just to doss for a few minutes and once one asks, then there is a stream of requests and the classroom becomes like a train station where there are people constantly going in and out.

Typically students have to go no longer than 2 hours at a time without a break. Any student that has a bit of cop will run to the toilet between classes if they really need to go. Nine times out of ten if they are told 'can you wait 5 mins... until I finish explaining this question' they forget all about it and don't ask again. And plenty of times its the same four or five students who ask in every class you have them for, and if you check with another teacher, they're at the same craic in other classes.

We are trying to get subjects taught, not deal with constant disruptions the whole time.

I asked to go to the toilet purposely when the teacher WASN’T teaching so in no way was I being a disruption or intentionally going to “doss”. I needed to go to The toilet then got banned from going for the year? Completely unnecessary, uncalled for and just plain ignorant! And it’s actually a rule in the school journal that we are not permitted to go to the bathroom or our lockers in between classes without out our teachers permission as it is deemed as “disruptive” and cause us being late to the next class. I asked a question do I have the right to go to the toilet when I need to go, as I find it ridiculous that I wouldn’t be. I’m not ‘teacher bashing’ for the craic I’m asking for genuine question because it’s just unfair that I’m not allowed to go?

rainbowtrout

KateMallon90 wrote: »

I asked to go to the toilet purposely when the teacher WASN’T teaching so in no way was I being a disruption or intentionally going to “doss”. I needed to go to The toilet then got banned from going for the year? Completely unnecessary, uncalled for and just plain ignorant! And it’s actually a rule in the school journal that we are not permitted to go to the bathroom or our lockers in between classes without out our teachers permission as it is deemed as “disruptive” and cause us being late to the next class. I asked a question do I have the right to go to the toilet when I need to go, as I find it ridiculous that I wouldn’t be. I’m not ‘teacher bashing’ for the craic I’m asking for genuine question because it’s just unfair that I’m not allowed to go?

You just keep ranting like that. I'm sure it'll get you far.

emo72

rainbowtrout wrote: »

You just keep ranting like that. I'm sure it'll get you far.

thats far from a rant. and in fairness she has a right to be annoyed over it.

randylonghorn

Why is it that every "right to go to the toilet whenever" thread ends up sounding like the Brexit row?!

There are 2 (at least) sides to this issue, there always have been and there probably always will be.

How about proponents of both sides take a few moments to attempt to walk in the shoes / understand the thinking of those on the other side of the argument?

And even if they can't do that, to manage to be a little more courteous and less snide, please?!

evolving_doors

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Because an awful lot of the time students ask to go out to the toilet just to doss for a few minutes and once one asks, then there is a stream of requests and the classroom becomes like a train station where there are people constantly going in and out.

Typically students have to go no longer than 2 hours at a time without a break. Any student that has a bit of cop will run to the toilet between classes if they really need to go. Nine times out of ten if they are told 'can you wait 5 mins... until I finish explaining this question' they forget all about it and don't ask again. And plenty of times its the same four or five students who ask in every class you have them for, and if you check with another teacher, they're at the same craic in other classes.

We are trying to get subjects taught, not deal with constant disruptions the whole time.

I think some better classroom management might be needed. I'll share my tips with you Rainbowtrout :pac: I never have any problems in my classes.

1. Student puts up hand and asks. Respond "hold on a few seconds and I'll get to your request", continue on teaching until students are on-task (unless you're going to be lecturing for a while!), either way....edge your way down to student and ask quietly if they really need to go etc. This way it kills the avalanche.
2. Some students often appear right behind/in front of you then ask. Again, kill the immediate demand and continue teaching whilst holding up the index finger to tell them wait one second and moving away from them ( It shows that you acknowledge their request but you should be allowed finish your point at least). You'll know if they're jumping around.
3. If they want to go, put the letters TB in their journal and the time. If all teachers are on board then it tracks who's in and out (we started doing this when things started to disappear from lockers between classes). Similarly with forgotten books.
4. Only one at a time to toilets. Let's students know others are waiting and 'might' get them to hurry.
5. If someone is slacking off I'd make a note of the teaching point and see if it comes back to bite them in a weekly test or homework. Then being it to their attention that they missed it while they were out (in a matter of fact way rather than berating).
6. Eventually they'll move on to the next teacher and try it on there.
7. It's always an issue at the start of the year so we allow a bit of leeway to get the bladders trained but there's a warning that were getting stricter on toilet breaks and forgotten copies (usually 2nd week back after October).
8. First years are usually genuine enough, 2nd years try it on, 3rd years are focused enough for JC so don't want to miss stuff, TY's ....there are no words, 5th years kind of like 2nd, 6th years is usually a student who wants to rage against the machine.

It needs to be tracked a bit though because of self harming, bullying or substance abuse when they're on their own. If students know you're tracking then they're not so ready to take the proverbial.

rainbowtrout

evolving_doors wrote: »

I think some better classroom management might be needed. I'll share my tips with you Rainbowtrout :pac: I never have any problems in my classes.

.

You've had a few digs at me before on this forum which is just an abuse of being a mod, but calling my classroom management into question. :mad::mad::mad::mad:

Pelvis

rainbowtrout wrote: »

You just keep ranting like that. I'm sure it'll get you far.

First of all, you had a sly dig at the OP for not having the "cop on" to go to the toilet between classes, and now she's told you that school doesn't actually allow students to visit the bathroom between classes without permission. And your response to that is just a pointless one liner accusing her of ranting, when she clearly wasn't.

Is this how you engage with your students in the classroom too?

witchgirl26

KateMallon90 wrote: »

I asked to go to the toilet purposely when the teacher WASN’T teaching so in no way was I being a disruption or intentionally going to “doss”. I needed to go to The toilet then got banned from going for the year? Completely unnecessary, uncalled for and just plain ignorant! And it’s actually a rule in the school journal that we are not permitted to go to the bathroom or our lockers in between classes without out our teachers permission as it is deemed as “disruptive” and cause us being late to the next class. I asked a question do I have the right to go to the toilet when I need to go, as I find it ridiculous that I wouldn’t be. I’m not ‘teacher bashing’ for the craic I’m asking for genuine question because it’s just unfair that I’m not allowed to go?

OP - have you talked to the teacher in question since this incident about it? Could it be that the teacher was at the end of their tether and unfortunately you just asked the wrong thing at the wrong time? Teachers are human after all.

In terms of the access to toilets and not being allowed between classes - maybe that's something that your student council could bring up to the principal as it really limits the access needed for students to avail of facilities. Surely there isn't enough toilets for everyone in the school to use at break and lunch? So there will potentially be a problem.

We had it my school where the policy, similar to what yours has currently, was changed but on the condition that you let someone in your next class know you were going and got them to let the teacher know and you weren't to be more than 5 mins late to the class.

randylonghorn

randylonghorn wrote: »

And even if they can't do that, to manage to be a little more courteous and less snide, please?!

Ever get the feeling that you're talking to yourself, Randy?

Yes, quite frequently, Randy!

Frustrating, isn't it?

Yep! Pity, too, when you prefer to mod without constantly closing threads.



*******************************************

Kate: Schools need to manage these things to some extent, like it or not, for a number of reasons, many of which have been mentioned in this thread in among the ranting on both sides of the argument: disruption to class / teaching if students are constantly in or out to the toilet; the potential problems with students wandering the corridors unsupervised during classes, including but not confined to: disruption of other classes, petty pilferage, bullying, self-harm, substance abuse, insurance issues. So it is normal enough for a policy of some sort to be put into place.

I doubt any teacher would want to stop someone going to the toilet in a genuine emergency; the trick is to plan ahead so that you have as few genuine emergencies as possible. You said in your first post:

KateMallon90 wrote: »

I’ve gone to the toilet about 3/4 this year not much.

You don't clarify if you mean "from this teacher's class", but certainly if so I can quite understand why she is beginning to think that you are (if you'll excuse the pun) taking the piss, given we're only in mid-November.

Planning ahead would include going to the toilet at the end of lunch / break, and, if you find that isn't sufficient, slipping in quickly between classes in mid-afternoon if this tends to be the pressure point (it often is).

And if

KateMallon90 wrote: »

... it’s actually a rule in the school journal that we are not permitted to go to the bathroom or our lockers in between classes without out our teachers permission as it is deemed as “disruptive” and cause us being late to the next class

then perhaps have a quiet and non-confrontational word with your Year Head or whoever might be the appropriate person in your school, explain that you tend to need to visit the facilities more frequently than the average person (which is what I assume you mean by a "small bladder", whether medically diagnosed or not), and seek "blanket" permission to pay a quick visit to the toilet between classes mid-afternoon if that's the normal pressure point.

Then if challenged on it, you have the back-up of the person responsible for discipline in your year, and can simply quietly ask the person challenging you to confirm that with your Year Head (or whoever).

And if there is a genuine medical condition which means that even this may not be enough, get it put in writing for your school.

It's not just in school that you will encounter this issue by the way, many jobs involve periods of time when it will be expected that you will be able to work through without dashing off midway to go to the loo, whether you're working as a check-out assistant in the local supermarket, a brain surgeon, a train driver or many more such jobs. And yes, everyone understands that we're all human and that we can all have dire emergencies in that regard .... but the nature of dire emergencies is that they happen very, very infrequently. And we ensure that is the case by planning ahead ...

So perhaps seek out a solution which works for you and everyone else, rather than invoking the UN Charter of Human Rights?

There really is no reason why bathroom breaks should be Brexit Re-visited!