Property Market in Waterford

hardybuck

I saw a number of old threads on this topic, but I think it's be great to have a meaningful chat on the residential property market in Waterford.

- I keep hearing about a shortage of property in Waterford - is this borne out by people's experiences on the ground?

- Are there upcoming developments you're interested in?

- Are you happy with the price you bought/sold for recently in Waterford?

- Do we think that prices will continue to go up or balance out?

- Perhaps feedback regarding agents might be valuable

Stopitwillya

hardybuck wrote: »

I saw a number of old threads on this topic, but I think it's be great to have a meaningful chat on the residential property market in Waterford.

- I keep hearing about a shortage of property in Waterford - is this borne out by people's experiences on the ground?

- Are there upcoming developments you're interested in?

- Are you happy with the price you bought/sold for recently in Waterford?

- Do we think that prices will continue to go up or balance out?

- Perhaps feedback regarding agents might be valuable

Not a lot of development taking place. Kill St Lawrence and Foxwood only new builds in the city and two new estates in tramore. So lack of supply will surely be an issue going forward meaning prices should increase.
Having said that the council's planning page is starting to show more planning applications for developments in kilbarry and carrickperish.

On agents wouldn't use John Rohan after two bad experiences. Found Purcell good.

engiweirdo

Any development will be very carefully managed to ensure it does not meet or exceed demand thus keeping prices inflated.

Its grand thlugh. Bertienomics dictates we can all get rich eventually by selling these overpriced houses to each other.

south

Stopitwillya wrote: »

Not a lot of development taking place. Kill St Lawrence and Foxwood only new builds in the city and two new estates in tramore. So lack of supply will surely be an issue going forward meaning prices should increase.
Having said that the council's planning page is starting to show more planning applications for developments in kilbarry and carrickperish.

On agents wouldn't use John Rohan after two bad experiences. Found Purcell good.

Kill St Lawrence is sold out bar a couple of 4 bedroom houses. I believe they'll be building 40 houses somewhere on the Kilcohan road in the near future.

Wanderer78

engiweirdo wrote:

Its grand thlugh. Bertienomics dictates we can all get rich eventually by selling these overpriced houses to each other.

The wealth created trickles down, you mustn't be getting your trickle down payments! The role of the creation of money must also be looked into regarding property, it's also time for a land value tax.

Gillman1998

south wrote: »

Kill St Lawrence is sold out bar a couple of 4 bedroom houses. I believe they'll be building 40 houses somewhere on the Kilcohan road in the near future.

There's a fairly sizeable plot of land on the left hand side of the Old Tramore Road, at the junction with the ring road, which is marked as sold for residential. That's probably what you are talking about?

hardybuck

What is the average 3 or 4 bed going for in these new builds?

You'd imagine that there is sufficient land within the outer ring road to keep Waterford ticking over for the next twenty years at least, but I hope there will be sufficient public transport links for these people, and proper provision of recreational facilities.

When you look at what happened on the Dunmore Road it's a disgrace in hindsight - throw the houses in first and (maybe) the facilities long afterwards.

I would personally think areas like Grange Park Avenue/Road, Summerville, The Folly etc. will make a comeback for younger families - there will be an inevitable changing of the guard in the coming years as the older residents move on. Walking distance from town and plenty of facilities - ideal.

Stopitwillya

hardybuck wrote: »

What is the average 3 or 4 bed going for in these new builds?

New 4 bed house in Kill St Lawrence selling for 285k.

You'd imagine that there is sufficient land within the outer ring road to keep Waterford ticking over for the next twenty years at least, but I hope there will be sufficient public transport links for these people, and proper provision of recreational facilities.

Kilbarry area is designated for lots of house building.

When you look at what happened on the Dunmore Road it's a disgrace in hindsight - throw the houses in first and (maybe) the facilities long afterwards.

Live on the dunmore road myself. Plenty of facilities here. As much as any other urban area. Carrickperish is an area with housing lacking facilities.

I would personally think areas like Grange Park Avenue/Road, Summerville, The Folly etc. will make a comeback for younger families - there will be an inevitable changing of the guard in the coming years as the older residents move on. Walking distance from town and plenty of facilities - ideal.

Grange Park avenue and Summerville are too expensive for young families. The folly less so.

engiweirdo

Wanderer78 wrote: »

engiweirdo wrote:

Its grand thlugh. Bertienomics dictates we can all get rich eventually by selling these overpriced houses to each other.

The wealth created trickles down, you mustn't be getting your trickle down payments! The role of the creation of money must also be looked into regarding property, it's also time for a land value tax.

The only thing that trickles down is cocaine infused snot from the wonderful class of "construction aristocrats" we have enabled.

hardybuck

Stopitwillya wrote: »

Grange Park avenue and Summerville are too expensive for young families. The folly less so.

A lot of the houses require significant overhaul due to years of no investment by the previous owners. A number of houses sold in Summerville Avenue and in around the Grange Park/Road area for just over the €200k mark in the last couple of years for this reason. An absolute steal for that type of area.

That said, I don't think much has become available in the last year or two, so it'd be interesting to see what prices could be achieved now.

Wanderer78

engiweirdo wrote:

The only thing that trickles down is cocaine infused snot from the wonderful class of "construction aristocrats" we have enabled.

I'd be more inclined to say the debts created largely trickle down, in particular private debt

dzilla

hardybuck wrote: »

A lot of the houses require significant overhaul due to years of no investment by the previous owners. A number of houses sold in Summerville Avenue and in around the Grange Park/Road area for just over the €200k mark in the last couple of years for this reason. An absolute steal for that type of area.

That said, I don't think much has become available in the last year or two, so it'd be interesting to see what prices could be achieved now.

Speaking from experience houses of that vintage are going for 265k+ and require overhall investment off up to 70k or so when you get into them to rearrange the old fashioned layouts / heating and decor . I don't see it as a problem however with house ownership you look at stuff as your own project and your forever home etc. These houses tend to have character that cannot be achieved from a new build.

curmudgeonly

Supply has been very poor of late, Frisby,MC Donald's in the City mainly,they sell a small amount of units close for sale and build what's sold.
Next year will see that model broken as thirteen new sites set to open with over 1400 units between them.
In fairness to the builders, Wfd was below cost price for a lot longer than the rest of the country,and banking is just not available to them,and before anyone says it,I exclude Frisby construction in the last comment.
Auctioneers will tell you they are busy but have no stock to sell or rent,most rentals aren't even advertised now,it comes in,they make a call and it's gone.

hardybuck

curmudgeonly wrote: »

Supply has been very poor of late, Frisby,MC Donald's in the City mainly,they sell a small amount of units close for sale and build what's sold.
Next year will see that model broken as thirteen new sites set to open with over 1400 units between them.
In fairness to the builders, Wfd was below cost price for a lot longer than the rest of the country,and banking is just not available to them,and before anyone says it,I exclude Frisby construction in the last comment.
Auctioneers will tell you they are busy but have no stock to sell or rent,most rentals aren't even advertised now,it comes in,they make a call and it's gone.

That's interesting regarding next year/2020, and I assume that while people will have the option of buying off the plans, very little of it will be completed in 2019.

And agreed, due to the cost of the sites being what they have been, quite difficult to build and make a decent rate of return on many of them, hence why many developers have been holding off until building became more viable.

Harry Palmr

No shortage of land inside the ORR in theory, though obviously a fair chunk is farming on the western side.



Something that has to be done at some point is the building of a secondary school/s where people actually live - ie on the ring road. If the projected population growth is even half achieved in the next 20 years then it'll be unsustainable to keep driving into town for the drop off unless it's done at 6 AM!

engiweirdo

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Something that has to be done at some point is the building of a secondary school/s where people actually live - ie on the ring road. If the projected population growth is even half achieved in the next 20 years then it'll be unsustainable to keep driving into town for the drop off unless it's done at 6 AM!

Or you know like every other developed country can manage; functional mass public transport.

Would love to see Ireland incur serious penalties via the EU for promoting private car use through non-provision of services. The fines need only be just enough that actually providing a service is cheaper.

er1983

south wrote: »

Kill St Lawrence is sold out bar a couple of 4 bedroom houses. I believe they'll be building 40 houses somewhere on the Kilcohan road in the near future.

Frisby has already started to build houses just before creche on old Tramore Road

Wanderer78

engiweirdo wrote: »

Or you know like every other developed country can manage; functional mass public transport.

Would love to see Ireland incur serious penalties via the EU for promoting private car use through non-provision of services. The fines need only be just enough that actually providing a service is cheaper.

austerity probably isnt a good start

engiweirdo

Wanderer78 wrote: »

engiweirdo wrote: »

Or you know like every other developed country can manage; functional mass public transport.

Would love to see Ireland incur serious penalties via the EU for promoting private car use through non-provision of services. The fines need only be just enough that actually providing a service is cheaper.

austerity probably isnt a good start

Could be "incentive/threat penalties". Ie Increase usage of public transport by x amount in y months, else pay amount z in penalties.

Where z is carefully estimated to exceed the amount of investment required to bring transport services up to acceptable standard for use by 25-50%.

Harry Palmr

engiweirdo wrote: »

Or you know like every other developed country can manage; functional mass public transport.

Would love to see Ireland incur serious penalties via the EU for promoting private car use through non-provision of services. The fines need only be just enough that actually providing a service is cheaper.

Or create a functioning social infrastructure to support people where they live rather than relying on busing children miles into town. In any event the existing schools are on finite plots of land and they can't keep expanding their classroom and associated support facility capacity esp if they also want to keep playing fields etc. There is obvious scope for a senior school at Ballygunner.

Wanderer78

engiweirdo wrote:

Could be "incentive/threat penalties". Ie Increase usage of public transport by x amount in y months, else pay amount z in penalties.

To be fair, I think the public sector has had enough of the stick approach, particularly in relation to spending, transport is a tricky one, we ve all become a custome to using our own cars, it's gonna be difficult to convince people to return to public transport

south

er1983 wrote: »

Frisby has already started to build houses just before creche on old Tramore Road

That's social housing so won't be available for the market I believe, the houses that McDonald's are going to start could be going in beside them but I'm not sure. The foreman just said that they'll be building 40 somewhere on that road.Kill St Lawrence only had a couple of 4 bed detached starting at 285k about two weeks ago.

er1983

south wrote: »

That's social housing so won't be available for the market I believe, the houses that McDonald's are going to start could be going in beside them but I'm not sure. The foreman just said that they'll be building 40 somewhere on that road.Kill St Lawrence only had a couple of 4 bed detached starting at 285k about two weeks ago.

These are part of Fairfield park, didn't know they were supposed to be social houses

TheQuietFella

engiweirdo wrote: »

Or you know like every other developed country can manage; functional mass public transport.

Would love to see Ireland incur serious penalties via the EU for promoting private car use through non-provision of services. The fines need only be just enough that actually providing a service is cheaper.

There should be an electronic toll on cars coming into cities where there is inadequate services to transport them from their residential areas!

engiweirdo

TheQuietFella wrote: »

engiweirdo wrote: »

Or you know like every other developed country can manage; functional mass public transport.

Would love to see Ireland incur serious penalties via the EU for promoting private car use through non-provision of services. The fines need only be just enough that actually providing a service is cheaper.

There should be an electronic toll on cars coming into cities where there is inadequate services to transport them from their residential areas!

I dont think that was ever dressed up as funding public transport in fairness, its literally a direct user pays model for funding the building of road infrastructure. And why not.

Johnboy1951

TheQuietFella wrote: »

There should be an electronic toll on cars coming into cities where there is inadequate services to transport them from their residential areas!

Very weird logic ....... charge people extra because there is no viable alternative to using their car to get to work.

hardybuck

TheQuietFella wrote: »

There should be an electronic toll on cars coming into cities where there is inadequate services to transport them from their residential areas!

London did it with the congestion charge, but I'm not familiar with anywhere else that has gone that route.

In places like Dublin, your employer isn't going to give you parking in most cases, the traffic is bad getting in and out and it costs a fortune to park. So you'll be making it your business to get on public transport if at all possible.

TheQuietFella

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Very weird logic ....... charge people extra because there is no viable alternative to using their car to get to work.

That's not what I suggested!

TheQuietFella

hardybuck wrote: »

London did it with the congestion charge, but I'm not familiar with anywhere else that has gone that route.

In places like Dublin, your employer isn't going to give you parking in most cases, the traffic is bad getting in and out and it costs a fortune to park. So you'll be making it your business to get on public transport if at all possible.

I use Dublin Bus! Lunacy trying to drive those roads in the morning!

TheQuietFella

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Very weird logic ....... charge people extra because there is no viable alternative to using their car to get to work.

Sorry JB! Should have read 'Adequate Services' and I have been told that there are additional services being rolled out for Waterford City in the coming months.

hardybuck

TheQuietFella wrote: »

I use Dublin Bus! Lunacy trying to drive those roads in the morning!

Luas myself. If I had a space I wouldn't use it.

TheQuietFella

hardybuck wrote: »

Luas myself. If I had a space I wouldn't use it.

I'm living in BB so luas only on occasion!

Christy Browne

TheQuietFella wrote: »

I'm living in BB so luas only on occasion!

Ballybeg is it? No wonder you can only get the Luas on occasion

debok

I thought twas ballybricken.

engiweirdo

Housing situation is pretty grim above in Dublin, maybe he lives in a B&B. Not much need for a Luas from Gardiner Street.

hardybuck

engiweirdo wrote: »

Housing situation is pretty grim above in Dublin, maybe he lives in a B&B. Not much need for a Luas from Gardiner Street.

The Red Line Luas actually crosses through Gardiner Street...

Getting back on track (excuse the pun) the rents in Waterford have risen 19.7% in 2018, ahead of the national average of 11.3%.

I think what you're seeing there is that the rental caps are slowing growth in the likes of Dublin, while prices in Waterford still had significant room from growth based upon how low they were for a number of years.

Doesn't appear as though there is a huge amount of supply coming on stream in 2019, so we should probably expect another year of double digit increases.

JimWinters

Saw this in August, sums up the rental market well: https://offices.sherryfitz.ie/waterford/waterford-rental-sector-analysis/