Do I need any Passport or other ID to travel on a train from Belfast to Dublin?

Nomis21

I am a British Citizen but my partner is from Hong Kong and we left our passports in Dublin.

fleet

Nomis21 wrote: »

I am a British Citizen but my partner is from Hong Kong and we left our passports in Dublin.

What passports and visas does she hold?

There is no physical border, or systamised checking of ID in either jurisdiction.

Ireland and the UK also do not require their citizens to carry ID. Nor is there any checking at tourist locations, public buildings etc. as there can be abroad.

If she's Chinese: then she may run the risk of being asked to prove her visa status during a "random" check, though this is probably more likely on public transport.
Technically she's need permission to enter the UK unless there is a waiver in place. For instance Ireland honors the reamining days on UK visas for some nationalities (mainland Chinese), but I don't know if this operates the other way round.

We do ask that non EU citizens carry their GNIB card or passport during their stay. How legal this is is questionable, but I've a GNIB letter here saying just that.

eezipc

Only if you run into Arlene. Otherwise you'll be fine.

whomitconcerns

Nomis21 wrote: »

I am a British Citizen but my partner is from Hong Kong and we left our passports in Dublin.

Your partner would need a visa/passport. Likelihood of being found out is very slim. Consequences pretty severe though

OldMrBrennan83

Nothing needed. Not yet anyway.

goingnowhere

Your partner must have a valid travel document, must have a valid passport.

While checks are rare, if you got caught it could be a whole world of pain.

Allinall

Patww79 wrote: »

Nothing needed. Not yet anyway.

Not true.

minikin

If you’re really concerned about it: leave your partner in Belfast to do some shopping, you travel down to Dublin to get the passports.

mikemac2

I’ve never seen any checks on the train but a few times Bus Éireann got stopped

Maybe the checks on the bus are random but they zero on some people. I had no ID but was just asked my name and where I was going. No interest in me at all

A Filipino couple heading to Dublin airport got taken off the bus to go to Dundalk station. Flights missed for sure. Seemed harsh to me seeing as they were going direct to the airport but dems the rules

OldMrBrennan83

Allinall wrote: »

Not true.

In reality nothing needed.

BeardySi

Patww79 wrote: »

In reality nothing needed.

In reality valid travel documents are required for the non-EU traveller, even if the chances of them actually being checked are vanishingly small.
Its alright for you to be flippant about it, but if you're going to give advice that has even a tiny chance of severely negative consequences at least acknowledge the fact...

OP, in almost 10 years of regular cross border travel by bus, train and car, I think I've seen checks made twice. Both times were on the bus and on both occasions they seemed to be targeting an individual (I'd guess they were working on a tip off). Make what you will of that...

whomitconcerns

Patww79 wrote: »

In reality nothing needed.

In reality passport/visa is needed. Patww you won't be the one potentially, no matter how unlikely, detained in some poxy police station while they check you out...

OldMrBrennan83

BeardySi wrote: »

In reality valid travel documents are required for the non-EU traveller, even if the chances of them actually being checked are vanishingly small.
Its alright for you to be flippant about it, but if you're going to give advice that has even a tiny chance of severely negative consequences at least acknowledge the fact...

OP, in almost 10 years of regular cross border travel by bus, train and car, I think I've seen checks made twice. Both times were on the bus and on both occasions they seemed to be targeting an individual (I'd guess they were working on a tip off). Make what you will of that...

Grand there's a tiny chance but I've crossed that border hundreds of times and even in worse days on public transport and never once has it been any different from getting a train or bus from Rosslare to Waterford.

Isambard

Patww79 wrote: »

Grand there's a tiny chance but I've crossed that border hundreds of times and even in worse days on public transport and never once has it been any different from getting a train or bus from Rosslare to Waterford.

Are you from Hong Kong?

Allinall

Patww79 wrote: »

Grand there's a tiny chance but I've crossed that border hundreds of times and even in worse days on public transport and never once has it been any different from getting a train or bus from Rosslare to Waterford.

You stated that no documents are needed, which is patently untrue.

It’s akin to saying you don’t need car insurance, so long as you don’t get caught.

Nomis21

Thanks for the advice everyone. Looks like we are safe on the train but if we get stopped we will ring the hotel and get the passports sent to Dundalk.

cgcsb

Is this thread supposed to be a test for some kind of scam?

kevincool

We will be travelling from dublin to belfast in a car. We don't have irish or british passports. Are their border checks now?

cgcsb

kevincool wrote: »

We will be travelling from dublin to belfast in a car. We don't have irish or british passports. Are their border checks now?

Where are you from? Do you have a legal right to be in both countries? Do you have a visa for both etc.?

kevincool

cgcsb wrote: »

Where are you from? Do you have a legal right to be in both countries? Do you have a visa for both etc.?

I have an irish Visa and I am from China.

kevincool

Just want to know if anyone encounter border checks recently when travelling by car?

bigar

There are no check points, although there are Customs cars that can ask you to stop (I have seen them, but never seen them stop anything else than a truck).

However unlikely that you will be stopped, you will need a UK Visa. It is up to you if you want to take the risk to go there without one.

cgcsb

kevincool wrote: »

I have an irish Visa and I am from China.

Some Irish visas give you permission to stay in Northern Ireland for a short term. Check the terms of your visa. Without that, you've no legal right to cross the border and your visa can be revoked if you are caught. Travel legally is the best advice.

cgcsb

kevincool wrote: »

Just want to know if anyone encounter border checks recently when travelling by car?

You are asking how likely are you to be caught if you commit a particular crime, that is against the rules of this forum.

dowlingm

There absolutely are GNIB checks on cross border public transport, people have been caught, it is pretty easy to establish this. It is reckless in the extreme for people on here to shrug and post that there aren't any just because they have no experience of it, and the mods should give thought to cleaning up this thread. This refers to the older 2018 posts above.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/gardai-turn-570-people-back-from-border-10460.html
https://mobile.twitter.com/fallon_donal/status/1089834695574122496
https://extra.ie/2019/05/09/news/real-life/belfast-dublin-bus-border-passport
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/republic-of-ireland/gardai-man-border-checkpoints-to-grab-illegals-entering-from-northern-ireland-31449642.html

dowlingm

kevincool wrote: »

I have an irish Visa and I am from China.

you should check whether your visa is eligible for this program (and that it is still in operation) before attempting travel.
http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/British+Irish+Visa+Scheme

Chinese nationals have got in bother in the past by travelling from one side of the border to the other without visa coverage.

Peregrinus

cgcsb wrote: »

You are asking how likely are you to be caught if you commit a particular crime, that is against the rules of this forum.

It's not a crime to attempt to enter the UK without the required travel documents. You risk being turned back if detected, but you are not committing any offence.

cgcsb

Peregrinus wrote: »

It's not a crime to attempt to enter the UK without the required travel documents. You risk being turned back if detected, but you are not committing any offence.

It is entering a country illegally, it is a crime to do so.

Peregrinus

cgcsb wrote: »

It is entering a country illegally, it is a crime to do so.

No, it isn't. There is no UK law which makes it a crime to enter the UK without the proper documentation. The risk you run if you turn up without the proper documentation is that you will be refused entry or, if you have entered, will be deported, because the law says that you can be refused entry or deported. But there is no law that says what you have done is a criminal offence, and you cannot be charged, tried, convicted or sentenced.

It is no moer a crime to enter the UK without a visa than it is a crime to enter a nightclub without proof of age. In both cases you can be excluded; in neither case have you committed any crime.

The notion that this is a crime is a lie invented to demonise migrants. You should not propagate it.

Isambard

that's entirely logical. Effectively you are turning up at the border wanting to come in. If you don't have the correct paperwork, you'll be turned away.

Whether it's an offence to be smuggled in, I don't know. It surely is an offence to smuggle someone in.

Peregrinus

Isambard wrote: »

that's entirely logical. Effectively you are turning up at the border wanting to come in. If you don't have the correct paperwork, you'll be turned away.

Whether it's an offence to be smuggled in, I don't know. It surely is an offence to smuggle someone in.

Not really relevant in the present context, though. Nobody in this thread is talking about smuggling or being smuggled.

XPS_Zero

I'm posting this on this thread because there are a lot of people who really have not got a clue what they are talking about on this site (what else is new eh? ) and I'm thinking maybe if they had a better attention span and were capable of reading more than a paragraph or watching something other than a 2 min cat video they might gather enough information on a topic to know what the hell they are talking about, thus giving others proper information.

XPS_Zero wrote: »

TLDR Version for those with short attention span: LOLZ LOIKE THEY CAN STILL TOTALLY CHECK N ALL LOLZ! YOU CAN STILL BE CAUGHT LOL!





The answer to your question though is nuanced and such requires a nuance answer.

The border is invisible in order that the unionists and nationalists can both pretend to have things their way. The GFA said that the Brits must demilitarize the border to "normal peacetime conditions", and what were normal peacetime conditions between two EU member states in 1998?
An invisible border.


Contrary to popular understanding though, it's not an UNENFORCED border, there are eyes on you everywhere.






The UK and Irelands immigration and security agencies run a joint Operation to police the border for both terrorism and immigration. It's well known that it's common from immigrants to the UK to enter illegally through the "back door" ie flight or ship from NI to Scotland or Wales then overland to England (though why a foreigner would wanna go to such a transparently racist hellhole with delusions of empire about to walk itself off a cliff is anyones guess)


The UK has it's own operation that may nab you as you cross the border, this one is a counterterrorism operation headed by PSNI special branch and their powers are used thousands of times each year to search people etc.
They often arrest people on the national security grounds (since it has stop and search powers under those laws the immigration laws DON'T) and then when they know or are sure you're not a security risk they don't let you go they hand you over to immigration police.



They stop private cars, stop people on the bus and train, and require ID. You only need to prove you are an EU citizen for them to leave you alone since you've the right to be there. If you are non-EU you need a visa and they can and will arrest and detain you if you don't produce one. If you say the passport and visa is in the hotel they'll arrest you until it's found or produced. They will essentially use what some consider racial profiling but that's said with a negative connatation I don't think of it that way, if someone has an Irish accent they'll let them go cos they're clearly in the south. What makes me less comfortable is assuming someones Irishness based on their looks, which is more questionable, and they do that.
But if they are searching a bus they'll ask everyone for ID usually, rather than single out the black guy, this is them simply following equality laws.
They know the guy in the leinster jersey and UCD shorts is probably Irish or here legally.
They ask everyone now because they have been sued, successfully, for profiling people based on silly notions of whats Irish/British and who looks it, and had to pay out thousands.



If you are arrested this is where you'll probably be taken after the police station:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HM_Prison_Maghaberry


OR


https://insidetime.org/irc-immigration-removal-centres/irc-larne-house-immigration-removal-centres/





In 2016 this joint operation arrested over 800 people who were illegally crossing the border.


A common genuine error is for people to think Ireland and the UK are in Shengin, when were not:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_policy_of_Ireland


https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/moving_abroad/freedom_of_movement_within_the_eu/free_movement_of_people_within_the_schengen_area.html




All depends what the trips for if it's worth it.


If I were you I'd book seats on the Enterprise train (though it's not going all the way to belfast there is a bus transfer while repair works are being done) but the bus transfer at Newry be worth it because they rarely do rail stops (and after Newry you are already over the border) next to that I'd not get the bus as busses gets stopped regularly, I'd take the private car and use back roads rather than the main Dublin-Belfast road.




Now...what they can still detain you for national security reasons (and unless they had some real suspicion about you they won't ) the law is they cannot, because of the common travel area, do passport checks on the Irish Sea at the ports or on the land border, when they ask you for a passport it's strictly voluntary, they'll make it seem like it's not, but it is.

They can still lock you up on security grounds then hand you over to immigration later, that's a big loophole, but one that's only used when they really are worried about someone, that's less likely to happen if you come clean str8 up when they check you and give them the real reason for why you are visiting NI, cos they'll know you are lying anyway, they get lied to all day every day they know the body language and have a 6th sense for it.


If you enter the country illegally and are caught you'll be arrested and deported, it's that simple.


What IS legal is to turn up at a legal port of entry and claim asylum (ie not sneaking in) this is something the Trump people are trying to get around ATM by making the ports of entry inhospitable, thus forcing people to sneak in then when they are caught "why are they sneaking in/??? they could just do it legally"


Your odds of being accepted for asylum are tiny in Ireland we reject 89% of applicants because they are actually economic migrants and you are meant to use the visa for that, and the ultra xenophobic UK...well...that should be obvious...


Hope that was helpful

magicbastarder

XPS_Zero wrote: »

I'm posting this on this thread because there are a lot of people who really have not got a clue what they are talking about on this site (what else is new eh? ) and I'm thinking maybe if they had a better attention span and were capable of reading more than a paragraph or watching something other than a 2 min cat video they might gather enough information on a topic to know what the hell they are talking about, thus giving others proper information.

you really should try to learn to post in a more constructive manner, and stop being so patronising. no one sane is going to read past the first line in the post you quoted.

XPS_Zero

magicbastarder wrote: »

you really should try to learn to post in a more constructive manner, and stop being so patronising. no one sane is going to read past the first line in the post you quoted.

...and just as I predicted there it is.
First, if they didn't read it they'd be proving my entire point.



Second, It's depressing when something is so predictable, it really is.
I bet that despite nearly every single post I've ever made on this site being productive, constructive and well thought out I'd get jumped on the second I colored a tiny bit outside the lines when the most frequent (minority) of offenders don't. There is a cohort on here that prefer to make personal snipes, and hurl reactions to peoples posts that really are such general insults they could be directed at anyone anytime. Then far from getting a mod finger wagging they'll get a dozen thanks.
So I invite you to look in the damn mirror, compare the way I conduct myself to some of those of that cohort


I'm always constructive, I've always brought a different perspective than most other posters, and have never went personal until today, and I'm sick to death of the calbre of discussion around here being lowered by people who do go personal and never get called out on it.


You'd think (I did) that this section of this terrible site (and a few others) would be a bit more rational and civil in it's discussions, given the subject matter, and 90% of the time it is, which is why I enjoy reading it.


So I'll make you a deal, nobody else lowers the tone and I wont either.

Shock me, stun me by delivering such admissions every time someone goes below the belt, instead of adding your name to their thanks like your friend Wishbone