Native Woodland returns

Dinzee Conlee

Hello,

Can anyone provide any estimates on native woodland in terms of
- time to thinning
- revenue from thinning
- time to clear fell
- revenue from clear fell

Am thinking on putting in some (probably GPC09 - oak-birch-holly-hazel) and was wondering what the returns outside of the premiums might be...

Thanks in advance...

Good loser

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

Hello,

Can anyone provide any estimates on native woodland in terms of
- time to thinning
- revenue from thinning
- time to clear fell
- revenue from clear fell

Am thinking on putting in some (probably GPC09 - oak-birch-holly-hazel) and was wondering what the returns outside of the premiums might be...

Thanks in advance...

I would say a net NIL.


I once had to get a 'Management Plan'. A farce of a document. The clearfell for the oak was given a date of 2125.

Birdnuts

Hardwood thinnings are much in demand atm from all the woodstoves that are now on the go - know several lads from home now fulltime working in that area.

Dinzee Conlee

Good loser wrote: »

I would say a net NIL.


I once had to get a 'Management Plan'. A farce of a document. The clearfell for the oak was given a date of 2125.

I would expect that oak would have a long growing time...
I think pine/spruce trees are about 40years to clear fell, so oak being around 100 doesn’t surprise me too much...

But how much is a hectare of oak worth today?
I would hope the longer growing time is reflected in the price paid, but maybe that isn’t so?

tabby aspreme

Usually, Oak 1st thinning after18 years, Birch after 12 years .

tabby aspreme

Some 8 yo ash and birch , reddish bark, on the ground, the trees standing are 8 yo oak.

Dinzee Conlee

tabby aspreme wrote: »

Some 8 yo ash and birch , reddish bark, on the ground, the trees standing are 8 yo oak.

Thanks Tabby...

Did you cut down all the ash in your plantation, due to ash dieback?

timfromtang

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

Hello,

Can anyone provide any estimates on native woodland in terms of
- time to thinning
- revenue from thinning
- time to clear fell
- revenue from clear fell

Am thinking on putting in some (probably GPC09 - oak-birch-holly-hazel) and was wondering what the returns outside of the premiums might be...

Thanks in advance...

HI there,
Going by experience in Europe from Association Futaie Irregulaire on management of irregular forests i.e. continuous cover management.
a revenue of 300-600 euro per hectare per year would no be out of the question.
I would question the sense in managing native woodland on a clearfell basis.
tim

tabby aspreme

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

Thanks Tabby...

Did you cut down all the ash in your plantation, due to ash dieback?

Yes , I'm sorry to say

Dinzee Conlee

timfromtang wrote: »

HI there,
Going by experience in Europe from Association Futaie Irregulaire on management of irregular forests i.e. continuous cover management.
a revenue of 300-600 euro per hectare per year would no be out of the question.
I would question the sense in managing native woodland on a clearfell basis.
tim

Hello Tim,

Yeah, I guess I said clearfell as that's what I see happens in mature fir forests. If that's not the way to go, thats fine...

One more question - for oak/birch, how long would it take to get to a maturity where you would expect to get 300-600 / hectare?

Thanks

Dinzee Conlee

tabby aspreme wrote: »

Yes , I'm sorry to say

Is it madness to still be planting ash do you think Tabby?

The reason I ask is, I still try to pull and re-plant any ash plant I see. Just cos I like ash, and have always tried to do this...
I'm not planting 100's of trees every year, but am now wondering am I wasting my time?

tabby aspreme

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

Is it madness to still be planting ash do you think Tabby?

The reason I ask is, I still try to pull and re-plant any ash plant I see. Just cos I like ash, and have always tried to do this...
I'm not planting 100's of trees every year, but am now wondering am I wasting my time?

You may as well keep doing it , the plants are free and some of them could be a resistant strain

timfromtang

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

Hello Tim,

Yeah, I guess I said clearfell as that's what I see happens in mature fir forests. If that's not the way to go, thats fine...

One more question - for oak/birch, how long would it take to get to a maturity where you would expect to get 300-600 / hectare?

Thanks

Hi Dinzee,

continuous cover is a little complex, but simple in its way too. you are trying to manage a forest so that you have trees of all ages and stages of development growing together, you are choosing and favouring stems with a future and elite trees at each intervention in each coupe (every 7 years or so). Your income comes from sales of removed material thinnings etc and from the sale of one or two valuable stems per hectare per year. You are trying to concentrate the value on fewer stems, and recruiting replacements is very important.



Essentially the 300hectare comes from sales of mature timber and thinnings.


I am no expert on continuous cover forest management in Ireland, simply a forester who is learning about it and trying it at home on our 10 acre hardwood forest.
pro silva ireland have some members who are quite expert i believe.


tim

Defunkd

You'd have to go big to make an income but it would still take a few decades if you're starting from scratch.

A brother of a friend has 125ac of hardwood (planted in 1992) and he's had many foresters from abroad visit and advise him. He (well, whoever he leaves it to) will be able to remove approx. 1,000 trees a year and natural regeneration will keep it going strong as long as it's managed correctly.

Another friend showed me a few photos of an oak stand in Germany and i nearly got a hard on looking at it. Perfectly straight trees in rows of 90-100 yr old that were over 4ft in diameter. Serious beauty and serious money!

Ireland has a v good climate for certain hardwoods (oak especially) and if you don't tie into a contract, harvesting can be done whenever the owner chooses. It would make better sense to leave it as long as possible because you move into the big money after the 70-80 year mark. Last time i checked, quality hardwood was around €250 cu/M. If a mature oak would yield 4cu/M, that's a grand for each of the 200 trees you'd have per acre. How many rotations of S.S would you have to go through to match that?! Little consolation in knowing your great-grandchildren would be wealthy.

Oak doesn't need high-quality land; reasonable to barely okay will do since it's the density and care that will determine the value. Planting into a ridge will sort any drainage issue. Sycamore, Scots pine, turkey oak and other varieties are hardwoods that have a shorter rotation/maturity but not in our lifetime i'm afraid. Even to plant a ha. would leave a very nice sum to be divided among your descendents, so consider the long term option too. Everyone is focused on the short to medium imo.

hempel

Have 15 acres of birch and alder what age would they be felled. What market is there for them?